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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:46 pm 
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Getting back to camo, it's fine if you use it how it's intended to be used. If you're using it with the expectation that it should give you real stealth, you'll be disappointed.

Players are entitled to complain that they want camo to be a real stealth, but that doesn't mean that it should function that way in its current state.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:54 pm 
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Jessibelle wrote:
Jadein92 wrote:
There are complaints that healers spells cost too much mana. Doesnt mean that blizz is going up and fix it. Its a nice little extra thing we get. If you dont want to use it, alright. But know how to use it before you say there is something "wrong" with it.

Just because someone says there's something wrong with it doesn't mean they don't know how to use it. It's wiser to assume they know something about the ability. ;)


I never said that. Looking at what it DOES or what it COULD do are two diffrent things. It does create a way for you to not pull aggro when you go to cc, It allows players unable to attack you with ranged attacks in pvp as well as pve. It doesn't allow us to act like rogues and stealth around (might as well play a rogue and shoot things with your bow) :P It is useful in some aspects, but there is nothing wrong with it. If there is something legitimately wrong with it, some examples would be nice. As I know of none.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:54 pm 
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Kalliope wrote:
Getting back to camo, it's fine if you use it how it's intended to be used. If you're using it with the expectation that it should give you real stealth, you'll be disappointed.

Players are entitled to complain that they want camo to be a real stealth, but that doesn't mean that it should function that way in its current state.

Right.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:56 pm 
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Kalliope wrote:
Ha! Healing spells don't cost too much; people just don't know how to manage their mana....or are perhaps undergeared.

Very true kalli ;) more from the holy pallies....beings their spells cost got bumped up quite a bit xD

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:59 pm 
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I use/love camo a whole hell of a lot, but like Kalli said it's not a 'real' stealth and I don't think it was ever intended to be. The stealth we know now used by rogues and feral druids is sort of a niche for them, a real identifying characteristic and I think that it takes away from both rogues/kitties and hunters to just up and give us their stealth. Granted, they have "our" misdirect and a few other skills but I don't really think that's on par with stealth - we aren't identified and represented by our misdirect.

TL;DR: Camo is not stealth, if you treat it as such you're going to wind up disappointed. That said, it does have its uses and I'd be very sad if it was 'fixed' to be 'real' stealth or removed.

As much as I'd like to see EotB return, I don't think I ever used it for anything besides looking to see if my pet had a jumping animation. Although much like the camo argument I'm sure there are people who did use it for a lot of things and want it back.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:01 pm 
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Jadein92 wrote:
Jessibelle wrote:
Jadein92 wrote:
There are complaints that healers spells cost too much mana. Doesnt mean that blizz is going up and fix it. Its a nice little extra thing we get. If you dont want to use it, alright. But know how to use it before you say there is something "wrong" with it.

Just because someone says there's something wrong with it doesn't mean they don't know how to use it. It's wiser to assume they know something about the ability. ;)


I never said that. Looking at what it DOES or what it COULD do are two diffrent things. It does create a way for you to not pull aggro when you go to cc, It allows players unable to attack you with ranged attacks in pvp as well as pve. It doesn't allow us to act like rogues and stealth around (might as well play a rogue and shoot things with your bow) :P It is useful in some aspects, but there is nothing wrong with it. If there is something legitimately wrong with it, some examples would be nice. As I know of none.

As the saying goes, it's not what you say but how you say it that makes the difference. :)

Anyway, I've had camo bug for me several times where a boomkin hit me with moonfire and wrath while camo'd somehow and had a problem with mobs aggroing me even if I was camo'd(BoT with that tricky pat) and I wasn't even close to them yet. So there's your examples you asked for.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:53 pm 
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k previously you were saying the spell's intended functionality was bad and needed changes / replacement, a la toggling between "stealth" and "untargetable by ranged attacks" / "reduced aggro radius".

Mobs aggro'ing you during camo is simply because you got too close, as discussed*.

If otoh you have examples of the spell NOT working as intended e.g. you're walking around with the buff on, not in combat, and suddenly BAM you got roasted by moonfire, then THAT would be a problem, and you should submit a bug report.

*I recall one spot in Tol Barad at the keep entrance, where I kept getting aggro'ed while in camo - but it was because one of the mobs is sitting underground directly beneath that spot... e.g. the spell was fine - problem was due to a glitchy mob. ;)


Last edited by Worba on Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:59 pm 
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You probably got too close to the pat, so that one's easily explained.

The moonfire case is more interesting. Did the owl hit you with faerie fire at some point? Did you accidentally trigger a mushroom spore by stepping on it? Did treants melee you to pull you out? Definitely need more info here.

@Jade: Pallies are a pain in the butt to make oom in PvP as it is. :/ They can generally heal quite effectively without needing to cast too, which means much of the healing they're doing is free. But yeah, I could definitely understand that hurting holy pallies with lesser gear in PvE, as well as other situations.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:47 pm 
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Worba wrote:
k previously you were saying the spell's intended functionality was bad and needed changes / replacement, a la toggling between "stealth" and "untargetable by ranged attacks" / "reduced aggro radius".

Mobs aggro'ing you during camo is simply because you got too close, as discussed*.

If otoh you have examples of the spell NOT working as intended e.g. you're walking around with the buff on, not in combat, and suddenly BAM you got roasted by moonfire, then THAT would be a problem, and you should submit a bug report.

*I recall one spot in Tol Barad at the keep entrance, where I kept getting aggro'ed while in camo - but it was because one of the mobs is sitting underground directly beneath that spot... e.g. the spell was fine - problem was due to a glitchy mob.

I've had that happen there AND in Darkshore. I believe there was a spot in darkshore infamous for having some invisible mob beating on you. I dont know if that ever got fixed in cata.

As for the boomkin, no. He wasnt using treants. He planted mushrooms but they were behind him cause I moved from them before camoing. I didnt see the FF debuff on me so I'm really baffled how he did it. It only happened once so maybe it was just a glitch? It was during Warsong Gulch. I put in a ticket but they said they'd look into it, but it would be hard to figure it out because they don't keep combat logs.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:42 pm 
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The invisible darkshore mobs were in a tree if memory serves. I haven't run into any Invisible Treebears since Cata though.

I like Camo how it is, I don't use EE at all unless I'm really bored... I dunno, most of what I commented on was repeated a hundred times by other people.

I have the same argument about the dead zone as most other people... I don't like it. Either make all the other casters unable to cast in melee range, or get rid of our dead zone. I'm less worried about pvp (though jesus DKs are annoying when they ice chain you, run up, wait till you disengage, death grip you and chain you again) than PVE. Marrowgar really sucked as a hunter because you couldn't stand with the rest of the raid because lol min range. Other bosses have similar box issues... they make the boxes bigger to make it easier on melee which then hoses you because you can't stand with the rest of the raid half the time. With so much focus on Not Standing In Crap in today's raids, you make things harder on everyone by not being able to stack in the appropriate places.

Anyway, MAYBE it makes sense for bows, but I'd say on average shooting someone at point blank range is pretty damn effective. Anyone want to argue it, come stand over here, I have my .38 and we can have a demonstration. :P

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:16 pm 
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Last edited by Teigan on Wed May 23, 2012 3:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:34 pm 
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Teigan wrote:
Taluwen, how about admitting you were wrong?

I don't recall seeing anything about being right or wrong here. Just stating opinions(as what Blizz is asking from us) and experiences. I was asked to elaborate so I did and feel this was uncalled for.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:34 pm 
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If it was in Warsong Gulch as you said, Jess, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts you had someone/something else on you before the boomkin got to you. I can't go two steps in that BG without tripping over a kitty druid or rogue even when camo'd and any melee hit can and will take you out of camo, even if the boomkin just hit you with his stick or something. :P

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:37 pm 
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Nubhorns wrote:
If it was in Warsong Gulch as you said, Jess, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts you had someone/something else on you before the boomkin got to you. I can't go two steps in that BG without tripping over a kitty druid or rogue even when camo'd and any melee hit can and will take you out of camo, even if the boomkin just hit you with his stick or something. :P

Maybe. It's very possible and I'll admit fully I totally suck in WSG unless I'm on my druid. XD I dont do WSG on Jessibelle often. I mostly do TB on her.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:04 pm 
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Yeah, camo is generally not hugely helpful in battlegrounds, since there's almost always someone on the other team capable of pulling you out. Hard to watch 10+ people at once! So it does rather seem as though you could have been mistaken.

One cool defense that we *do* have while in camo is flare, since we can fire it off and not get pulled out of camo. The true stealthers don't have that. The closest they get is the single-target ability sap, which pulls out the victim, but not the inciting rogue. Druids are basically screwed.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:09 am 
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Kalliope wrote:
Yeah, camo is generally not hugely helpful in battlegrounds, since there's almost always someone on the other team capable of pulling you out. Hard to watch 10+ people at once! So it does rather seem as though you could have been mistaken.

One cool defense that we *do* have while in camo is flare, since we can fire it off and not get pulled out of camo. The true stealthers don't have that. The closest they get is the single-target ability sap, which pulls out the victim, but not the inciting rogue. Druids are basically screwed.

Yeah maybe thats what happened and I just didn't see it. My luck, it was a rogue.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:41 am 
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More info on the facts and myths surrounding camo, for those interested:

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=51753#comments:id=1301635


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