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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:58 pm 
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Illustrious Master Hunter
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Worba wrote:
Separation is really the only solution. Until they do that, both are going to (continue to) be eachother's ball and chain.

I recall TotalBiscuit being upset Blizz STILL hasn't done this yet after 3 expansions.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:00 pm 
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If so, he was spot on.

Hopefully things will be different in Titan. :)


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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:08 pm 
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Worba wrote:
If so, he was spot on.

Hopefully things will be different in Titan. :)

For WoW's sake, I hope so.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:14 am 
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Different re: PVP / PVE.

Derp, derp.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:01 am 
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Jessibelle wrote:
Worba wrote:
Except the other classes you described make more use of non-instant spells e.g. which can be interrupted or disrupted somewhat. Yes we have aimed shot but that spec also has a daze built into two of its primary attacks, so that just leaves steady / cobra which A) we can already use while moving and B) are for sustained ranged combat anyway not close tight spots.

And as for camo - even when moving you still get "Untargetable by ranged attacks. Reducing the range at which enemy creatures will detect you", so it's great for the purpose I described. If it doesn't make you a rogue in PVP, well... it shouldn't.

More than anything else, alot of this stuff really just highlights (more and more) the fact that it is simply not possible for the wow engine to 100% simultaneously accommodate both PVP and PVE.

Not really. Arcane mages spam AB. Boomkins spam Moonfire. Warlocks? They got Hellfire. Those are instant.


Some will just go after your pet to pull you out of camo.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:10 am 
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AdamSavage wrote:
Jessibelle wrote:
Worba wrote:
Except the other classes you described make more use of non-instant spells e.g. which can be interrupted or disrupted somewhat. Yes we have aimed shot but that spec also has a daze built into two of its primary attacks, so that just leaves steady / cobra which A) we can already use while moving and B) are for sustained ranged combat anyway not close tight spots.

And as for camo - even when moving you still get "Untargetable by ranged attacks. Reducing the range at which enemy creatures will detect you", so it's great for the purpose I described. If it doesn't make you a rogue in PVP, well... it shouldn't.

More than anything else, alot of this stuff really just highlights (more and more) the fact that it is simply not possible for the wow engine to 100% simultaneously accommodate both PVP and PVE.

Not really. Arcane mages spam AB. Boomkins spam Moonfire. Warlocks? They got Hellfire. Those are instant.


Some will just go after your pet to pull you out of camo.


Camo has restrictions - again, it's not intended to make us ranged rogues. :)

EDIT: And camo affects your pet the same as you - when it moves, it has camo (e.g. not targetable at range, reduced aggro range) and when it stops moving, it switches to full stealth. So no, pet is not a loophole, unless you are using the "move to" command...


Last edited by Worba on Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:19 am 
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Worba wrote:
Yes, camo has restrictions - again, it's not intended to make us ranged rogues. :)

Case in point, makes Camo useless if it's not actually making us camo.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:35 am 
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I have found camo quite useful when it comes to cc in raids/heroics. When you would otherwise facepull a mob by getting close to Freezing trap it. The aggro range has become shorter when your in camo (stationary or not). It is quite handy imo.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:11 pm 
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Yes ^

A spell doesn't have to be 10/10 to still be useful.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:18 pm 
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Worba wrote:
Yes ^

A spell doesn't have to be 10/10 to still be useful.

I've still had mobs aggro me while camo so thats hardly 100% foolproof help.

10/10 is better than 1/10.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:32 pm 
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Doesn't have to be foolproof to be useful, you just need to know how to use it (and be aware that it's a nice extra not a class defining core spell); not once has it triggered aggro on a mob for me, except where I blundered too close (and the same is true of rogue stealth btw). And even sometimes when I did get too close, I've gotten lucky and slipped past, when by all rights I'd messed up and deserved to be attacked.

The stealth / non-stealth thing is irrelevant in PVE - and being untargetable at range and able to slip past mobs (granted a minor amount of skill is involved there, but that's fine) is a 6/10.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:43 pm 
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Jessibelle wrote:
Worba wrote:
Yes ^

A spell doesn't have to be 10/10 to still be useful.

I've still had mobs aggro me while camo so thats hardly 100% foolproof help.

10/10 is better than 1/10.


Gotta know the level's aggro range and not get too close? It DECREASES the aggro range, doesnt get rid of it. So you cant go kissing the mobs. Basically its useful for PvP/CC'ing in raids and dungeons/running past stuff in low level raids. Its not the best thing in the world. But its pretty damn useful.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:56 pm 
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Jadein92 wrote:
Jessibelle wrote:
Worba wrote:
Yes ^

A spell doesn't have to be 10/10 to still be useful.

I've still had mobs aggro me while camo so thats hardly 100% foolproof help.

10/10 is better than 1/10.


Gotta know the level's aggro range and not get too close? It DECREASES the aggro range, doesnt get rid of it. So you cant go kissing the mobs. Basically its useful for PvP/CC'ing in raids and dungeons/running past stuff in low level raids. Its not the best thing in the world. But its pretty damn useful.

Matter of opinion and apparently Camo has a bit of complaints so obviously something is wrong with it.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:22 pm 
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There are complaints about everything in the game - by itself that doesn't mean anything though.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:53 pm 
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There are complaints that healers spells cost too much mana. Doesnt mean that blizz is going up and fix it. Its a nice little extra thing we get. If you dont want to use it, alright. But know how to use it before you say there is something "wrong" with it.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:20 pm 
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Ha! Healing spells don't cost too much; people just don't know how to manage their mana....or are perhaps undergeared.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:46 pm 
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Jadein92 wrote:
There are complaints that healers spells cost too much mana. Doesnt mean that blizz is going up and fix it. Its a nice little extra thing we get. If you dont want to use it, alright. But know how to use it before you say there is something "wrong" with it.

Just because someone says there's something wrong with it doesn't mean they don't know how to use it. It's wiser to assume they know something about the ability. ;)

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:05 pm 
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Actually without supporting evidence it doesn't mean anything one way or the other.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:28 pm 
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Worba wrote:
Actually without supporting evidence it doesn't mean anything one way or the other.

It's usually still better that way so one doesn't sound rude, regardless of evidence or not. ;)

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:40 pm 
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Refusing to buy into an idea without any supporting evidence is not rude, it's prudent...

For example...

I'm bad at PVP.

Therefore I don't like it, and have complained about it.*

Because people have complained about PVP, obviously something is wrong with PVP, and it needs to be fixed removed or radically altered.

See how I got from A-F? :)

*I haven't complained about PVP obviously (not that it would matter if I did, just sayin), this is just for the sake of example...


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