Ghostcrawler on Beast Mastery Hunters

[Saturo]

That sounds like something he'd say, yes...

[Kalliope]

Isn't he the same person who heavily implied that only a level 80 toon was a "legitimate" toon?

This is Blizzard's mentality in general. Certainly since BC, Blizzard's focus has been on the endgame aspects of WoW. Everything builds up to the options available at max level, which is why they've done more and more to cut down the amount of time spent leveling. This is a natural progression of the game's aging, since the people who have been playing for five years have (in theory) seen it all and done everything, so that's who Blizzard's trying to keep entertained. Of course there's still the hooks for new players, but they need to keep their longtime players happy too. And besides, they can see how the game's developed even more easily than we can, since they see all the inner workings as well. (No amount of complaining on the part of the playerbase makes up for that kind of full and complete access; some people act like they know ALL of what's up Blizzard's sleeve, but they can't possibly.)

The theory with their current design is that "even a casual" can get to max level and see "the end of the game." Whether you're actually on the front lines fighting Arthas or not, you can feel like you're pretty damned close.

I don't think Blizzard is as focused on giving the truly casual players as much to do anymore (the comfortable insoles come to mind). You guys get the spillover of all the RP built into daily quest hubs and the world at large. I'd say more than anything that this keeps Blizzard "honest" in terms of developed storylines, but that's about it. You all are doing fine at entertaining yourselves in a virtual world with lots of eye candy and a few toys scattered around. I suppose the achievement system is more geared toward giving players with time on their hands something to do, but casual players don't really NEED it. Y'all are happy enough just to be exploring and hanging out. There's a place for that too, of course; it's just the idea that you don't need Blizzard holding your hand for that so much.

Blizzard just isn't as focused on the journey anymore. They throw all that in at the beginning of expansions and in the development of zones. Then it's all endgame from there.

[Mesc]

I fail to see what the problem is what that mentality but that's the point of an MMO - giving lots of "end game" content to keep you hooked. It seems to be working out pretty well with the subscription numbers...

If you'd rather not see the end game and kill boars in the woods that's up to you.

[Kalliope]

It's NOT a problem.

It's just the idea that if people expect that characters who aren't max level are going to be considered anything more than second class citizens....well, they're going to be disappointed.

[Sukurachi]

MY point regarding this is that ANY character that a paying customer creates, is a legitimate character.

It isn't Ghostcrawler's duty to decide which of my 24 toons are "legitimate" or not.
I spent months working on each one (years, actually), even if they aren't all level 80 uber-killer toons.
But I have almost every craft capped or near cap (actually, I have only one craft - Blacksmithing - that is below 400, and only BARELY below) on some toon or other.

The reason I brought this up was that GC was the one who said that players with no more character-creation slots only had to delete their extra toons, since they weren't "legitimate" anyway.

And being level 80 should NOT be the "be all and end all" of a game that contains this much material. Crafting, collecting, completing all quests, achievements, etc... not to count all the classes and races which have so many unique aspects, a leveling experience that is different for every one. There is enough material to keep you going for a long time without ever making it to level 80. For many players - and I know I am not alone - the journey is more than half the fun.

Oh, and I never suggested that anyone keep killing boars in the starter zone for years on end. Way to exaggerate in the wrong direction.

[Chrizesu]

I normally agree with this guys, but I have one big problem, he referred most bm players to bad arcane mages.

Ok, one of the best dps range class and spec against the worst dps spec of all classes? Apples to Oranges.

[Rhyela]

And being level 80 should NOT be the "be all and end all" of a game that contains this much material. Crafting, collecting, completing all quests, achievements, etc... not to count all the classes and races which have so many unique aspects, a leveling experience that is different for every one. There is enough material to keep you going for a long time without ever making it to level 80. For many players - and I know I am not alone - the journey is more than half the fun.

This is actually why, after playing for almost five years at that point, I was fed up with the game and quit for a long time. End-game was frustrating and monotonous. Raid raid raid raid daily daily daily daily raid raid raid. Level 80 is not as exciting to me as the previous 79 levels. Yeah, I could do achievements, but to me that's just...fluff. It's like grunt work at work. Sure, I could file papers for four hours but I could be doing a lot more with my time than that. I did end up coming back, but I haven't stepped foot in a raid on my main, nor do I care to. I'm sure ICC is fun and all, but I'm so fed up with the raiding scene right now (GS /flexepeen) that I prefer to do casual dungeons and quests with my friends. I almost wonder what I'm going to do once I hit 80. I think I'm going to save all my low-level quests until I'm 80, and then do them. It'll be far more satisfying than doing the same thing I've been doing the past three years.

So I agree with you, Sukurachi.

[Saturo]

(GS /flexepeen)

Don't forget "link achiev or no invite".
"But I know the encounter, I've seen it on youtube and I can recite it perfectly from wowwiki!"
"no achiev no go"

[Vephriel]

Ugh, yeah...end game raiding seems like too much stress for not a lot of enjoyment.

I'd love to run some of the stuff even just once, but honestly it would mostly be for the lore content and seeing the instance itself. I'd be perfectly content to wait and run things an expansion later so that they're 'easy-mode'. xD The experience alone is all I would take from it.

And I agree, the whole gear score thing has become ridiculous.

[Chrizesu]

(GS /flexepeen)

Don't forget "link achiev or no invite".
"But I know the encounter, I've seen it on youtube and I can recite it perfectly from wowwiki!"
"no achiev no go"

They never believe me when I say it's my alt. C'on, not everyone has 1 character with 15 kills of every F'ing boss.

Oh Veph, you may want to censor that image.

[Mania]

Choosing the end-game raiding experience is also a legitimate choice. I don't want anyone to feel unwelcome here.

But I agree that Ghostcrawler appears to feel that end-game raiding is the only legitimate choice, and since Ghostcrawler is the speaker that we hear, and since Blizzard's development does not appear to contradict that, then that is what we have to go on.

This is a deep topic, though, and probably deserves its own thread.

(As an aside, if I were his producer I'd have him muzzled. But I applied for that spot and they turned me down. *sigh* Possibly because I've said things like that publicly, I suppose ...)

[Vephriel]

Oh yes, I didn't mean to give off the impression that anyone who raids is bad or anything. ^^ I fully understand that way of playing (my boyfriend used to do nothing but raid, however he got burnt out from it eventually), and I can definitely see why people enjoy it.

For me, though, I just don't think I'd cope very well with that sort of commitment, so I commend those who do.

[Ryno]

Ugh, gearscore. It crept up on me one day when I was working on my main shaman. Never heard of it before, was explained what it is... sounded SO stupid. It's not too terribly-/CUT RANT

[Tahlian]

Hrm. Here was a point brought up on the tkasomething forums, where I stick my nose in from time to time but very, very rarely post.

Perhaps they've changed the damage bonus on Ferocious Inspiration from Arcane Shot to Steady Shot as part of a series of changes to bring the Beastcleave PvP teams under control - so that they can give beast masters back more of their PvE DPS, since they've said that the PvP power of the spec is what made it so difficult to buff BM to be competitive with the other two trees.

Maybe? Maybe?

/crosses fingers and hopes

[Kalliope]

The gearscore crap is ridiculous. If you LOOK at a player's gear, you can usually tell where it came from and how they got it, which means more than the numbers. I refuse to get that mod or get caught up in all that.

I will say this again: just because Blizzard and a portion of the playerbase are focused on the endgame aspect of WoW, it doesn't mean YOU have to. I know people who have played for ages and have 80s of every class and have maxed all available professions on some toon or other. EVERYONE PLAYS DIFFERENTLY. As was already said, if you don't care about getting to 80 and prefer focusing on the journey, more power to you. There's PLENTY of stuff to do on the way up.

Bad word choice on GC's part, but it DOES reflect quite strongly where the focus is on the development side.

[Rhyela]

Hrm. Here was a point brought up on the tkasomething forums, where I stick my nose in from time to time but very, very rarely post.

Perhaps they've changed the damage bonus on Ferocious Inspiration from Arcane Shot to Steady Shot as part of a series of changes to bring the Beastcleave PvP teams under control - so that they can give beast masters back more of their PvE DPS, since they've said that the PvP power of the spec is what made it so difficult to buff BM to be competitive with the other two trees.

Maybe? Maybe?

/crosses fingers and hopes

I like you, Tahlian, we seem to be on the same page (just that I'm usually quiet about it). Not that it makes a difference who I do or don't like (though there isn't anyone on this forum that I don't like)...anyhow, I digress.

I personally don't want BM to be the best spec of the three. I don't want it to pwn in PvP, either. I just want it to be like DKs where all three specs are accepted to raids. I'm not asking to be over-buffed and overpowered. I just hate to see my favorite spec treated as noob trash. I've loved BM ever since I picked up a hunter five years ago, and it's sad to see it so horribly underused.

And I don't think I added a single constructive thing in this post, lol. Oh well, just felt like putting in my two cents' worth.

[Vephriel]

I personally don't want BM to be the best spec of the three. I don't want it to pwn in PvP, either. I just want it to be like DKs where all three specs are accepted to raids. I'm not asking to be over-buffed and overpowered. I just hate to see my favorite spec treated as noob trash. I've loved BM ever since I picked up a hunter five years ago, and it's sad to see it so horribly underused.

So much this. ^

[Daetur]

If pets built up combo points, or Kill Command acted like a Conflag, or something where the hunter had to react, then more pet damage wouldn't be so bad (though the risk of death doesn't go away).

You mean like it used to be where it was triggered by crits and we had to CLICK on it when it popped up?

[Kalliope]

I personally don't want BM to be the best spec of the three. I don't want it to pwn in PvP, either. I just want it to be like DKs where all three specs are accepted to raids. I'm not asking to be over-buffed and overpowered. I just hate to see my favorite spec treated as noob trash. I've loved BM ever since I picked up a hunter five years ago, and it's sad to see it so horribly underused.

So much this. ^

^
This.

Unless something overpowered like beastcleave comes along (and really, other hunter specs work out better in the long run), right now, BM is pretty much the definitive soloing and ZOMGSHINYPETS spec. It really shouldn't be this way. :/

[Gimlion]

I agree that GS is way too out of control. I do think it could, COULD, be used correctly, but it isn't, and probably won't be by the majority... as it is, a few of my guildies were running 10m VoA, but had to PuG a few spots. In the HUGE mess that PuGing is, we ended up one too many dps, and one too few healers... First thing to come out of this '1337 uber-pwn' DK's mouth was 'Gim has the lowest GS, drop his noob a*s and find a healer...' He didn't even BOTHER to see that the run was with the guild I WAS IN! It was funny too, as soon as he said that, all my guildies in G-chat go, 'Drop the DK, that was a dumb move on him', so it worked out in the end, but the fact that he didn't even bother looking at my guild tag before whipping out GS was rather annoying.