Why is it so hard?
- Tankperson
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Why is it so hard?
- Rawr
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Re: Why is it so hard?
Re: Why is it so hard?
Re: Why is it so hard?
If 80% of your groups are expecting different tanking, then maybe experimenting with tanking styles isn't unwarranted. Ask your healer if they can handle you pulling faster (which may include them having to heal a dps off-tanking a mob) or if you're pulling too fast.
My main's a tank, so I'm not just talking out of my butt. If you don't have your prefered AoE avaliable (eg, in your example Charge I guess), and you can still keep pulling at quick rate. Mark your target with skull so dps get most their threat on your main threat target, and use your other aoe abilities. Don't get upset if someone pulls a different mob off you, it happens sometimes for various reasons. Some of those are bad reasons, some are good. If you do have to wait for a pull, give your reason, like "healer mana" or, "big pull, give me a sec for CDs". When a tank is just sitting around doing nothing, its more likely that they're smoking a bowl or something. Knowing that's not the case will make your dps and healer more patient, and they can give you some possibly useful feedback, like "I'm ok with at least 33% mana", or "its ok, I can OT that caster" or "I'll drop threat if I pull off, let's try to move faster" or "I have misdirect now, I can multishot everything onto you every 30 seconds."
While people may prefer not to lose a tank, a tank that is a prima dona because of that is even more obnoxious.
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Re: Why is it so hard?
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Re: Why is it so hard?
That said, I always get massively pissed when I'm playing a tank and people pull for me. Generally I just try to pull faster, though, and ask that they please don't pull. If they keep being jerks, I might point it out to the group, or just let them tank it and move on.
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Re: Why is it so hard?
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Re: Why is it so hard?
Not to be mean, but this type of player(atleast playing devils advocate) that makes me AFRAID to tank. If I'm tanking, I am a nervous tank at first. I should not have to bend to anyones whim. If you pull before I do, you're on your own and I make that clear. If it was just an accident, that's different. If I'm not going fast enough, too bad. I'm not here to please everyone. I'm here to do the dungeon my way and learn how to tank before I hit 90 and feel comfortable with my tanking style.Xota wrote:To be devil's advocate, leveling dungeons are a bit of a joke. Groups should be steamrolling them as fast as possible. If I get a tank who is wishy washy on pulls, like they're waiting for something, I'll keep the group moving. If they leave, I have a shield. I don't have a problem with not getting heals because I watch to grab mobs off the healer.
If 80% of your groups are expecting different tanking, then maybe experimenting with tanking styles isn't unwarranted. Ask your healer if they can handle you pulling faster (which may include them having to heal a dps off-tanking a mob) or if you're pulling too fast.
My main's a tank, so I'm not just talking out of my butt. If you don't have your prefered AoE avaliable (eg, in your example Charge I guess), and you can still keep pulling at quick rate. Mark your target with skull so dps get most their threat on your main threat target, and use your other aoe abilities. Don't get upset if someone pulls a different mob off you, it happens sometimes for various reasons. Some of those are bad reasons, some are good. If you do have to wait for a pull, give your reason, like "healer mana" or, "big pull, give me a sec for CDs". When a tank is just sitting around doing nothing, its more likely that they're smoking a bowl or something. Knowing that's not the case will make your dps and healer more patient, and they can give you some possibly useful feedback, like "I'm ok with at least 33% mana", or "its ok, I can OT that caster" or "I'll drop threat if I pull off, let's try to move faster" or "I have misdirect now, I can multishot everything onto you every 30 seconds."
While people may prefer not to lose a tank, a tank that is a prima dona because of that is even more obnoxious.
Either go at the tanks pace, or ask politely to go faster. Don't be a bugger and start pulling willy nilly just cause you don't like the speed or demand they go faster to appease you. You dont know if the tank is new or not.
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Re: Why is it so hard?
Now of course, if you play a hunter, that's something that can be used to the group's benefit with some ad-hoc pet tanking/healing when needed (or if not needed, then only with the tank's agreement - noone likes chasing down mobs unnecessarily). Have I mentioned how much I loved the sheer utility of the hunter class? =)
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Re: Why is it so hard?
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Re: Why is it so hard?
I agree. I played a tank since vanilla and really if the tanks too slow tough biccies. You spank it, you tank it. when i play a dps and I know the tanks learning its no big deal. As a tank if you want to pull mobs thats cool but I'm not gonna taunt them off if you pull them. They learn pretty quickJunrei wrote:Not to be mean, but this type of player(atleast playing devils advocate) that makes me AFRAID to tank. If I'm tanking, I am a nervous tank at first. I should not have to bend to anyones whim. If you pull before I do, you're on your own and I make that clear. If it was just an accident, that's different. If I'm not going fast enough, too bad. I'm not here to please everyone. I'm here to do the dungeon my way and learn how to tank before I hit 90 and feel comfortable with my tanking style.
Either go at the tanks pace, or ask politely to go faster. Don't be a bugger and start pulling willy nilly just cause you don't like the speed or demand they go faster to appease you. You dont know if the tank is new or not.
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- Mozag
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Re: Why is it so hard?
Even in a separate role I hate tanks that indiscriminately pull and don't loot and don't give a crap if the healer is out of LoS or far from them, mistaking their own abilities and dying when being beaten on by twenty mobs. As a healer I believe my job is stick to my tank, but if they choose to run across the dungeon pulling willy-nilly, then that's fine as long as they can keep themselves up. Some can, most can't. Even as a tank I loot, because that is my right. I do dungeons because I ENJOY them, not because I want to run other people to 90 in one day.
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Re: Why is it so hard?
I have two macros for when I tank and heal. The healing one came first, after I've zoned into the pinacle of storms only to find my group has already wiped on the first group of trash and was all "where's teh heals!!11oneone". Mind you, I was playing on a bit of an old rig back then, so my loading screens took a bit longer than standard.
Code: Select all
/s Hi! I've just met you, and this is crazy
/s but I'm your healer, so wait for me, maybe? <3
/dance
Code: Select all
/s I'm you tank for tonight, I warn you right
/s you PULL IT, you're gonna TANK IT!
/dance
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Re: Why is it so hard?
More often than not I would get blamed for being a s*** tank because some impatient brat was pulling a boatload of adds.
Ugh.. :s
Re: Why is it so hard?
I've always been a careful tank, starting with moderate sized pulls and then increasing them until I can figure out what the dps and heals can handle. That doesn't go over very well a lot of the time. I'd rather the instance take 5 or 10 minutes longer with controlled progress than risk it taking forever due to frequent wipes.
I won't even touch lfr as a tank. Folks are just insane in there.
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Re: Why is it so hard?
Whether I am playing a tank, healer or dps that rule applies.
If I (as dps or healer) accidentally pull something, I go stand on top of the tank. I've had many people comment to me about how "smart" that is and that they wish more people would do that.
As a tank I usually let people know that I am still learning to tank and if they could please not pull. Some groups listen, others don't.
As a healer I have a basic outlook. if the tank is doing his job, I focus heal him. if the tank is running non-stop pulling everything...well, I tend to stick with the group so that we can at least kill everything when the oor/los tank goes splat.
mixed skilled groups I play by ear. but if there is a dps that insists upon pulling wtf they feel like, I don't heal them. When they yell at me I always answer "you do your job, I do mine, but if you want to do the tanks job you're on your own."
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- Tankperson
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Re: Why is it so hard?
- Krysteena
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Re: Why is it so hard?
Personally, I don't pull unless I see the tank attacking it. I follow the strict rule of 'don't attack it unless the tank can handle it' I'm too scared of messing up in groups. I barely group with people unless I strongly know what I'm doing or I know people in the group.
If someone decides to pull a mob, I just leave them to it. Let them to what they want. Unless the tank decides he/she can handle it, I don't want to risk a wipe. I've gone tank in emergency situations only, and they were really low level dungeons back when my druid was a baby. All I can say is...never again. Never. Ever. Again.
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- Smyelmdar
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Re: Why is it so hard?
When I tank and someone keeps pulling, I just ignore them. And if they whine about it I tell them not to pull. After that they can yell all they want. I'll just ignore it.
As a healer if the DPS is pulling over and over, I stop healing them. If they whine, I tell them not to pull. And as before I ignore their cries after that.
Never been kicked for it.
As for the rushing tanks. If I'm a healer I usually leave the group when there are tanks like that. It's too stressfull for me.
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- peanutbuttercup
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Re: Why is it so hard?
At the lowest levels there's very little difference between roles and specs. And at the higher levels, like with the current level 90 heroic dungeons, they're so easy that DPS can solo them. I even see DPS tanking normal 10m SoO raid trash (I know I've done it, but only after someone else started it and died).
As a courtesy I don't pull ahead of the tank unless there really is some sort of problem, but not everyone has patience or manners.