Flying in WoW Discussion

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Bulletdance
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Re: No Flying in WoD period

Unread post by Bulletdance »

I don't mind not having it as much as I thought I would. I hate jump challanges tho and will really miss the relaxation of flying around and enjoying the view while gathering herbs.
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Re: No Flying in WoD period

Unread post by Bristlenose »

I think once they realize how negatively this will impact the playerbase, taking away a major perk of the game, they will change their tune. It's like saying, "here's a new class... oh, but we don't like how it works so we're taking it away." Or removing a primary profession entirely. They ditch flying but keep worthless secondary profession crap like First Aid? I haven't bothered even trying to level that since WOTLK. It's that useless.

There are plenty of ways to restrict flying without removing it but as always, Blizzard takes it to the extreme. All or nothing. There is no moderate solution to them.
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Re: No Flying in WoD period

Unread post by Castile »

cowmuflage wrote:I honestly don't think it's a bad decision. I've become so used to not flying now that I think that I would feel weird flying in WoD zones now.
Yeah I'm with cow - I think its ok. I mean we've gone this long right? I'm actually in the i don't care either way camp. I don't see any advantage in flying now especially as how the flight paths are and it kinda encourages me to go back to old content to use my flying mounts again!

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Re: No Flying in WoD period

Unread post by AdamSavage »

Wain wrote:I believe they are listening and they must be super aware of how much this is hurting them. Which tells me they believe really, really strongly that this is the way to go long-term if they can stick to it knowing how much resentment it generates.

I can see their point for current content. I've always liked the fact that we were grounded for a new expansion. I'm just disappointed that flying won't return as the content ages.
As someone said in my guild forum:

The problem with that is they give no other explanation other than it would change the experience. Yet in the top post they want US to explain why we want it in detail.

Kinda like Dad saying "Because I told you so..." So now at level 100... I have to run through an aggro content that is trivial. Is THAT the experience they want me to have? One shotting mobs 8-10 levels below me?

More from Lissanna MVP on the topic of the removal of flying: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/search?f=po ... &sort=time
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Re: No Flying in WoD period

Unread post by Lisaara »

Castile wrote:
cowmuflage wrote:I honestly don't think it's a bad decision. I've become so used to not flying now that I think that I would feel weird flying in WoD zones now.
Yeah I'm with cow - I think its ok. I mean we've gone this long right? I'm actually in the i don't care either way camp. I don't see any advantage in flying now especially as how the flight paths are and it kinda encourages me to go back to old content to use my flying mounts again!
This ^^^^^

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Re: No Flying in WoD period

Unread post by Vephriel »

Mm yeah, I really don't have a strong opinion either way. Exploring Draenor by flight would be fun, but I also don't mind how it is now. There haven't been any points where I've felt terribly inconvenienced so whatever Blizz decides to do I can roll with.
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Re: No Flying in WoD period

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Vephriel wrote:Mm yeah, I really don't have a strong opinion either way. Exploring Draenor by flight would be fun, but I also don't mind how it is now. There haven't been any points where I've felt terribly inconvenienced so whatever Blizz decides to do I can roll with.
Some people enjoy the Vanilla like WoW, and that's fine. Not everyone is going to have the same preference. Regardless, of who likes what. This is going to have a negative impact on the game. To what end is not known yet. Even the MVP'S are speaking out, and that's unheard of. They are typically on Blizzard's side. I'm sure some will not care if we have flying or not of course.
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Re: No Flying in WoD period

Unread post by AdamSavage »

Well this is a first... Blizzard actually gets a GM to try and get you to stay.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/178 ... st33999778

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Re: No Flying in WoD period

Unread post by Arthur »

When the next expansion has a whole new area, like draenor, but allows flying, what makes you think that no flying right now will impact the whole game negatively? I mean, assuming there will be a new expac.

Don't you feel that all the people who are upset at the moment - would come back to the game?
Would you, yourself, be persuaded to come back? I'm not trying to fight, I'm genuinely curious. ;/w/;

As for the whole thing as of the moment, I am neutral. As others have said I am fine with running on the ground, but if it were added, I'd be just as pleased to fly in the sky on my mounts. There would be quite a few amazing screenshots to be had.

I will just stay in the back quiet, and watch what unfolds.
Hopefully, all of this will have a decent outcome in the end.

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Re: No Flying in WoD period

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They have said basically, no flying at all for all new content. I guess one could say it's a dumb reason to quit the game over no flying, but you have the draw the line somewhere. It's one thing to can flying for this expansion. It's another to say basically, no flying right now. Flying soon. Then to turn around and say no flying period. They have been going about this in a very sneaky way. Unless they bring back flying for new content, I will not be coming back to WoW. I've said from the start, that no flying would be the breaking point for me.

Why should I be forced to use a flying mount that I worked hard to earn, or paid for with real money, as a ground mount ? I find it a insult, that my ICC dragon (my favorite flying mount) is now a ground mount in WOD and any new content. Taking away flying doesn't solve anything, and giving it to us doesn't slow you down. The game is about end game content. How does flying effect how fast you progress in raids ? It can help with daily's, but at best it will only take off 10 minutes off your dailies. I kept playing WOD, on the hope they would eventually renable flying. Eventually, I just got bored of the game. I started to hate the whole garrison thing. I just wanted to be able fly around, where I want and when I want and how I want. Not on some flight path that forces me on a set path from point A to B.
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Re: No Flying in WoD period

Unread post by Lisaara »

Honestly, if your line is 'no flying', then no MMO will suit you since no other MMO allows flying....at all...like period. Not even the spinoff companies from Blizz employees such as ArenaNet(GW2) and Rift. I'm not trying to be rude, but I just wanna point that out.

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Re: No Flying in WoD period

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Junrei wrote:Honestly, if your line is 'no flying', then no MMO will suit you since no other MMO allows flying....at all...like period. Not even the spinoff companies from Blizz employees such as ArenaNet(GW2) and Rift. I'm not trying to be rude, but I just wanna point that out.
I'm perfectly ok with that. It's also different. The games are likely different overall, and you don't notice the lack of flying. If wow never had flying, you would never miss it. It's when you give us something, then take it away with really weak reasons. It's basically summer anyway, and I likely wont want to stay inside much anyway. I will be following the whole no flying thing very closely, to see how in the end it plays out.

If they made up for the lack of flying, like having faster ground mounts or more limited flying on cooldowns. I would consider coming back. It would depend on the content. I almost came back for 6.2, but with the no flying. I won't be. Also, make getting to and from less of a pain. I don't want to have to go around some mountain to get somewhere, or jump over tree roots etc etc. They could add more flight paths, and allow you to get off at any time, with the aide of a chute.. However, that just makes it more and more complicated, and one would think it would be simply easier to allow flying.
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Re: No Flying in WoD period

Unread post by Sukurachi »

Junrei wrote:Honestly, if your line is 'no flying', then no MMO will suit you since no other MMO allows flying....at all...like period. Not even the spinoff companies from Blizz employees such as ArenaNet(GW2) and Rift. I'm not trying to be rude, but I just wanna point that out.
Not entirely true: Aion has flying, has had it from the start. It's actually integral to gameplay.

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Re: No Flying in WoD period

Unread post by Rikaku »

I'm not too bothered by this. I love flying and I do miss it, but I don't miss it in Draenor as much as I thought I would. I've actually had a lot of fun over the months finding ways to travel faster (be it through flight paths or toys) on ground. Plus the flight paths aren't obnoxious like some of the previous FP pathing.

But I am still bothered by the lack of content this patch. 6.0 was great, 6.1 was a dud, but 6.2 looks good.

As for the "no flying in the future expansions". I'm not gonna hold my breath on them actually following through. If I remember correctly, they were also pretty adamant about not making flying in the Old World at one point - saying that re-doing the old world would be a lot of work - and then we got Cataclysm. So I do feel optimistic that there will be flying once draenor is old content (7.0 and beyond) and probably still in the future, depending on the situation.

Heck, I still recall the "ghost wolves will remain tamable" post and then 3 weeks later poof! So yeah, not gonna buy into their words just yet.

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Re: No Flying in WoD period

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Rikaku wrote:I'm not too bothered by this. I love flying and I do miss it, but I don't miss it in Draenor as much as I thought I would. I've actually had a lot of fun over the months finding ways to travel faster (be it through flight paths or toys) on ground. Plus the flight paths aren't obnoxious like some of the previous FP pathing.

But I am still bothered by the lack of content this patch. 6.0 was great, 6.1 was a dud, but 6.2 looks good.

As for the "no flying in the future expansions". I'm not gonna hold my breath on them actually following through. If I remember correctly, they were also pretty adamant about not making flying in the Old World at one point - saying that re-doing the old world would be a lot of work - and then we got Cataclysm. So I do feel optimistic that there will be flying once draenor is old content (7.0 and beyond) and probably still in the future, depending on the situation.

Heck, I still recall the "ghost wolves will remain tamable" post and then 3 weeks later poof! So yeah, not gonna buy into their words just yet.
This is true.. They swore up and down, they never allow Old World Flying.. Then did it anyway. So yes, they do tend to change their minds. Maybe, when the sub numbers dip low enough, they will re think it ? They are getting Game Masters to ask why people are quitting..
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Re: No Flying in WoD period

Unread post by Krysteena »

I know I stopped my sub because of disliking the whole expac, not because of flying, but I am surprised Blizzard haven't seen what this is doing to the playerbase...or may they have. Either way, it's obvious people don't like it. I don't mind/ didn't mind when I was playing but as content gets older you won't want to go the scenic route around to Shadowmoon Valley. Flying made WoW unique, but flying didn't make WoW so popular. The storyline, the PvP, the dungeons...that made WoW what it is. If they're willing to lose so many subs, and upset the majority of the playerbase, they've got something big planned. They're willing to lose so much, I'm not counting on them not having a plan in the works somewhere the line.
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Re: No Flying in WoD period

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More from MVP Lissanna:

The people who were pro-flying ultimately feel like there was never a condition under which flying would ever be introduced. Blizzard Community Managers said they would decide based on feedback, but the Developers themselves never created a condition under which feedback could matter. They didn't design Draenor to ever allow the possibility of flying. They put the equivalent of Timeless Isle in the middle of the map. They put jumping puzzles out in the middle of the world instead of putting them in caves. They put story quests all over the map in leveling zones. They produced content that would never allow players to change Blizzard's mind. The "conditions" under which the game was developed never truly allowed them to change their mind about flying. They never designed content with flying in mind, so now it's impossible to allow flying. The pro-flying players feel like they never had a chance for their feedback to matter. That's why it feels like deceit - because what they said didn't match what they actually did.

Some of the pro-flying crowd bought the expansion and started playing specifically because they were told that flying would likely come back later. Those people feel hurt by the fact that they made their decision based on something that they feel never materialized.

The pro-flying crowd ultimately feels like there was never a condition where the pro-flying people could have ever changed Blizzard's mind. Saying that they were open to feedback was the mistake that Blizzard made in creating a condition where people felt they were strung along. Blizzard never actually collected data about how the average player felt about flying. The forums are easy to dismiss as a 'minority', and Blizzard never collected survey data from the majority of players to ASK them how they felt about flying. So, ultimately, all the flight decisions were made inside their own echo-chamber where everyone inside that echo-chamber all thought the exact same way and love not having to design the game with flying in mind.

If Blizzard had just been straight and said last Blizzcon that they were designing all of Draenor such that they couldn't allow flying, no one would be posting right now. However, by being wishy-washy in their decision making and not communicating properly with the player base about how they were designing content, it left open the possibility for the pro-flying players to be hurt.

At this point, Blizzard's intentions matter a lot less than their actions. Blizzard's actions hurt a large number of players, even if they didn't intend to come across wishy-washy. The pro-flying crowd never felt heard because there was no way that the pro-flying crowd was ever going to be able to change Blizzard's designs that Blizzard had already created.

Blizzard created a no-flying rabbit hole that no amount of forum posting was ever going to be able to dig Blizzard out of. They didn't create Draenor with an experiment to see if pro-flying or no-flying was preferred. They created Draenor with the concept of no-flying and made it impossible for the pro-flying crowd to win. The feeling of having the deck stacked against you is hurtful.

source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... e=414#8277
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Re: No Flying in WoD period

Unread post by Lisaara »

Except people would still post and complain about it. :P

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Re: No Flying in WoD period

Unread post by AdamSavage »

Junrei wrote:Except people would still post and complain about it. :P
Also true.

Seems a number of people at Blizzard are well aware of the massive outburst over this.
Directax wrote: I recently made a ticket to Blizzard to ask for a refund in part for my Grinning Reaver, being that half of it is somewhat worthless and 2 out of 4 pictures ON THE PRODUCT PAGE showed the Grinning Reaver FLYING IN DRAENOR. This is what a GM said IN THE TICKET:

"Greetings ......,

This is Game Master Beroddra. I just finished looking over your petition here regarding the Grinning Reaver.

I can understand how you feel about the changes regarding flying in the game; however, it is not a change that has yet been implemented, and ultimately may not be, especially if there is great volumes of community feedback. If you wanted to provide direct feedback, there's a forum post that has exploded over the last day (289 pages as of the time of writing) here (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17597939626)."

I added bold to emphasize.
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Re: No Flying in WoD period

Unread post by Lisaara »

and the GM is right. Just cause they plan something doesn't mean it will be implemented. I've been saying that since the beginning. Don't cry wolf til the wolf is actually in sight. :3

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