Flying in WoW Discussion

[Kalhoun]

I can understand why a lot of people want flying - archaeology for one (I haven't touched archaeology in Draenor yet, BUT I think it's mostly because I just haven't stirred up the ambition). I personally have no opinion on the matter. Being grounded hasn't been a big deal for me, especially with having the Stable in my Garrison.

[Lisaara]

Archeology is the only reason I'd really want flying. XD

[Bristlenose]

I'm not going to unsub because of no flying but it would play a notable part of my reasoning for doing so if I decide to in the near future. Even if they allowed flying I might still unsubscribe.

Aside from that, the reason I would unsubscribe is how poorly Blizzard has communicated. Sure, they talk a lot but what they say is frequently of little substance and in the case of a major shift in game play like this, they said nothing. We're told it was not decided yet but when pressed for details, for explanations, for anything that gives us any insight, they kept quiet on it for months and months. It gives the impression, true or not, that whatever the playerbase said would be irrelevant and seeing how large the "minority" uproar has been over it, the subtle shift into "maybe we'll reconsider" has not done anything to alter my opinion they are going to do what they think is best and once more dramatically alter the gameplay to suit that all or none mentality they have going on.

Like has been said countless times, Blizzard cannot moderate for anything. They remove almost all dailies or they drown you in dailies. They introduce flying for the majority of the game only to decide now to remove it and then give hasty, poorly defensable explanations for why. All of which can (and have) been countered with ways to preserve both the ability to fly in Draenor and not reduce it to trivial content.

That they cannot, will not compromise is their right. It is their game after all but in the blue posts stating they want player feedback, they give the impression that it might be taken into more consideration than a token "we're listening" response that later feels like it's ignored. Years go by before player suggestions (personalized/better loot distribution being a great example) that prove popular and effective are even given a hint of acknowledgement.

Why any of us thought this would be different is showing just how foolish we've been to expect a more detailed and acceptable answer than "we think it's better this way."

[AdamSavage]

Lissanna is on the war path again. Seems He/she is quite ticked off still.

We got confirmation that Blizzard people were reading the posts. I created a stink on twitter by suggesting that they didn't actually really understand the position of the people who love flying after 8 months of having this discussion.

I'm sure that they believe from a design standpoint that flying hurts their ability to make a game.

However, from a player standpoint, flying for the last eight years HAS been the game I've played. I come home from a long day of work and fly. I soar in the air and look at the world around me.

We make goals for collecting flying mounts. We make goals about where we can go on our flying mounts. We show off our flying mounts to others. We ask other people where they got their flying mounts. We make groups together to go get new flying mounts. I fly in Pandaria just to see the world from the air. I fly circles around stormwind to see the devastation that was brought to the city. I fly to see what the tops of trees look like. I fly to get to pet battle pets. I fly across a zone to see what pets I can battle today and then swoop down to interact with the battle pets and maybe capture a new battle pet friend. I fly to discover a new cave I haven't seen before. I fly to get to Timeless Isle just to see how long it takes and where I'll get dismounted. I fly to find rares to kill. I fly to find goals to do. I fly to find reasons to land on the ground. Flying is how I come up with fun new things to do.

With eight years of flying mount design, our ground mounts are mostly boring. No one wants to know where I got my yak mount. I don't need to show off my generic yak mount. There's no reason for me to go and work to get generic looking ground mounts. Without a flying mount, there's no reason for me to go explore a zone at max level. So, I sit in my garrison where I am alone. I sit in my garrison where I don't have any motivation to leave simply because eight months of no flying has killed my motivation to care about what is outside my garrison doors.

My garrison gives me goals and lets me play an NPC (as Anne put in her Know your Lore article, see: http://blizzardwatch.com/2015/05/22/kno ... nor-story/ ). In eight months, I've turned from someone who loved exploring on my flying mount to someone who is perfectly happy to be an NPC in my garrison. Flying as much as good storytelling contributed to my sense of agency and choice in the game, but I have no agency or sense of choice in Draenor. I'm just part of the machine and every day I do the same 'sending my followers on missions" NPC duties. I do really ultimately love my garrison. It gives me goals and things to do, but I miss my sense of agency and freedom.

I feel as much like Anne does about the story, but I feel that way about what taking away flying has done to my motivation and agency. I have basically been indirectly told that my playstyle of exploring via flying is wrong, and I'd better get in the linear ground-based play machine. There is only one right way to get up the mountain, and it's Blizzard's singular path that I have to "discover" if I want to cross the mountain. I have to cross the mountain the only right way to cross it. Finding that one way to cross the mountain is how we are supposed to be having fun. Running up that same singular linear path is how it's done. Otherwise, I won't be crossing the mountain. Well, at some point, what if my motivation to cross that mountain is killed by the lack of choice about how I cross the mountain? After 50 times of crossing the mountain, what if a sense of agency and choice is what I want more than to cross the mountain? To cross the mountain, you have to care about what is on the other side. Flying is what used to help me care about what was on the other side, so now I just don't cross mountains anymore.

More from her: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/search?f=po ... &sort=time

[AdamSavage]

Someone from my guild site said the following: (still have access, despite no active sub)

The final post from Blizzard tells it all. We heard you, but did not agree. Evidently this GM does not understand there is not really much difference. He just said, we had our minds made up no matter what the community said.

I'm not sure I agree with this. It does sound like they will be re thinking this over.. To what existent, is not known.

[SpiritBinder]

Just putting it out there, what if they tied the ability to fly in draenor to the aquisiton of a completed ledgenary ring on ones account? (Like Ordos' area in the timeless isle)
That way one would have had to have done a LOT of exploration, and would have immersed themselves quite substantially in what the expansion had to offer, scenery/story/exploration wise.
Also at the end of the expansion/start of the next, they could just unlock it for all lvl 98's and some gold (as per prior expansions)
Just thinking out loud/throwing ideas about.

[AdamSavage]

Just putting it out there, what if they tied the ability to fly in draenor to the aquisiton of a completed ledgenary ring on ones account? (Like Ordos' area in the timeless isle)
That way one would have had to have done a LOT of exploration, and would have immersed themselves quite substantially in what the expansion had to offer, scenery/story/exploration wise.
Also at the end of the expansion/start of the next, they could just unlock it for all lvl 98's and some gold (as per prior expansions)
Just thinking out loud/throwing ideas about.

guess we will see what the say. Hopefully it's positive.

[Lupen202]

There are definitely things more important than flying that have made me loose interest and ultimately unsubscribe for the second time in the eight years I've played... But I must say the lack of flying has ruined a lot for me.

I understand some people don't mind it, but for me flying was enjoyable. When they first announced that there may not be flying, I was indifferent.. But over time I've definitely wanted flying back more and more. Not just for convenience during gathering or exploring but just because I enjoy it.

I loved flying around on my flying mounts I worked years to collect, to see the world in a different way. And while you can get part of that during flight paths it's quite clearly not the same.

I've always enjoyed exploration the most and while at first traveling on the ground was ok, after awhile it's really getting to be less and less enjoyable and more and more of a chore. Not so bad on a hunter granted due to feign death... But other classes I miss having the ability to just drop combat by flying up.

Eh like I said flying isn't what pushes me to unsub and there are other things I am annoyed by or disappointed in more, but I still wish they would bring flying back. If not at release, then when the first or second patch of each expansion is released... By that time its safe to say we've all already explored the new zones in full while on the ground.

[cowmuflage]

Just putting it out there, what if they tied the ability to fly in draenor to the aquisiton of a completed ledgenary ring on ones account? (Like Ordos' area in the timeless isle)
That way one would have had to have done a LOT of exploration, and would have immersed themselves quite substantially in what the expansion had to offer, scenery/story/exploration wise.
Also at the end of the expansion/start of the next, they could just unlock it for all lvl 98's and some gold (as per prior expansions)
Just thinking out loud/throwing ideas about.

That could work.

[Nimrod]

As long as it's account wide, and simply unlocks the ability to buy flying.

I don't want to have to do the entire chain on a dozen characters, but am happy to pay gold once it's already unlocked.

[Lisaara]

I do feel I need to put this out there as a reminder...

We don't know what they discuss behind the scenes. It's so easy to be angry at them when we only see what they tell us. Thing is they don't tell us everything that's discussed or said or what their plans are. There's a whole 'nother side to this we're not hearing or seeing.

[AdamSavage]

I do feel I need to put this out there as a reminder...

We don't know what they discuss behind the scenes. It's so easy to be angry at them when we only see what they tell us. Thing is they don't tell us everything that's discussed or said or what their plans are. There's a whole 'nother side to this we're not hearing or seeing.

Yep, which leads people think they are ignoring us. I personally don't think this is the case. They are watching the no flying issue closely, and are even monitoring this thread. This guy has a few good points, but overall he is just a pretty ticked off guy. Maybe today, a blue will speak up again ?

Long Read with link below:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17604460271

[Lisaara]

Yeeeah 90% of that was just a big rant to me. But I agree, they are listening closely and my twitter has been going nuts on my phone cause of it.

[AdamSavage]

Yeeeah 90% of that was just a big rant to me. But I agree, they are listening closely and my twitter has been going nuts on my phone cause of it.

Yep. Took a peak at Muffinus Twitter, and that doesn't like a guy that is "ignoring us". He is has been active even on here. To what degree, I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure it's a safe bet, he is reading this thread. Followed him, and subbed to mobile alerts, so it goes to my phone when he says something.

[Yaone]

Instead of tying flying to the legendary ring quest, why not just tie to a meta achievement that has draenor treasure, exploration, and loremaster? Ring is cool and all that, but if they did it the way they did the cloak from MoP, it would still be obtainable after the potential of the ring being removed.


Also, I want flying back.. I was fine at first but now it's just bleh without it.

[Wain]

Something that I do wonder. We know that flying is always restricted at the start of an expansion so that the player initially experiences all the intended challenges and experiences of the world. And once a player has levelled flying is permitted so that the player doesn't have to repeat the same challenges to the level of tedium.

There's one reason to keep flying restricted that I hadn't considered before. Could it be that they intend further content in existing zones or upgrade phases of them for higher tier content?

Maybe not, but it would be one explanation.

[cowmuflage]

That's a good idea.

[AdamSavage]

Watching a video from Trade Chat on the no flying. This pretty much sums up the differences from this forum, vs the Blizzard forums.

Blizzard forums:



This forum:

[AdamSavage]

Another lengthy but good blurb on this topic from the MVP Lissanna:


====> http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... ge=77#1521 <=====

[Lisaara]

Watching a video from Trade Chat on the no flying. This pretty much sums up the differences from this forum, vs the Blizzard forums.

Blizzard forums:



This forum:

Yeah that's pretty much the gist.