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Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:08 pm 
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Illustrious Master Hunter
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Location: In the bushes watching. Always watching.
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I know others have written their reviews on the BM /SV classes and after some time I decided to write mine. I feel ............ I have given BM (so far) a pretty fair shake.
Please share your thoughts but be mindful as of the time of this writing my BM hunter is NOT max level & has not maxed her artifact.

Also I do intend on at least hitting max level on her before swearing off BM completely. It may drive me insane in the process unless A LOT changes.

Hopefully everything makes sense.
Differences I've noticed so far.

BM: BORING! I am not sure what it is but even at 104 the spec still feels lackluster. It's very tedious feeling. EVERY quest feels long. Hitting the same button over and over over. Just standing there. In Val'sharah yesterday questing there felt like it took fever. I love this zone but on this second play though the time there just felt grindy.

SV: Engage! Hitting the proper CD's, moving, backing up, HARPOON, GRENADE! Whoa what was that?!

BM: MEDIC! Healer. Exhilaration! Bandage bandage bandage. Mend pet! For the love of God MEND PET. Revive pet. Curse. Rinse repeat. Basically myself and my pet die A LOT. To the point it's nerd rage creating. It shouldn't. But it really does. I cannot med pet fast enough. Heart of the Phoenix is mandatory but high cooldown and I take a serious beating while trying to revive pet. This is even with a tenacity pet. :( The simple fact that even in ok gear it's really really hard to keep a pet alive let alone myself.

SV: Tis merely a flesh wound! Come at me! *brushes dust off & walks away* Yeah I have no problems in SV. Same level gear as my BM girl etc.

BM: Ooohhh silver dragon rare! ATTACK! (20 minutes later) "Whew good thing you came along pally! Couldn't have done it w/out you." Yes I have no shame in admitting some silver dragon mobs have taken FOREVER to down under BM. Whether it's trying to keep my pet alive or myself there are some without another players help wouldn't have died by my gun.

SV: Ooohhh silver dragon rare! ATTACK! Yeah! That's what you get for walking near me 100+ yards away! :twisted: I'll take that artifact experience and your soul. *pets pet*

BM: Hati. Gods that wolf. I am not sure if this is a glitch, maybe I'm just unlucky. I cannot for the life of me figure why this damn wolf just HAS to argue with my active pet as to which side of my person he's going to stand on. Just when I think they've figured it out and settled there they go again. It's been such a bother I submitted a ticket about it. Frivolous I know but that wolf is always in the way. But even the GM couldn't seem to understand why Hati just cannot sit still and shoves my current pet around. Even at times he would stand directly in front of me. To them he's working as intended. Dismissing & resummoning changes nothing. If I move he stays, mounted or not. Soon as I stop the fidget and place argue starts again. I will say this. His fast walk seems a little better as of late. He still lags to a mob here and there but over all he seems faster. At least there's that right?

SV: Hati??? Who's Hati? Lightning wolf you say? Never heard of him.

These are the things that immediately come to mind. Yesterday was the first time playing Legion I felt grindy and that it was taking forever to level. Mind you I have leveled one toon to max then started working this one trying to get her to 110 before Hallows End. I could see it feeling this way if I was working on my 3rd plus alt but this is only my 2nd.
Being so squishy and having such squishy pets, not putting out high dps (yes I know BM is supposed to be the top but it's not for me) and Hati being a control freak is wearing out it's welcome. I am determined to stick out but it may drive me mad. :roll:
Shoot I even tried to put points into Titanstrike and the glitched out and actually kicked me out of the game! :shock:

I sincerely hope there is some major work coming to BM and soon. It severely needs it in my eyes.

I may add more as things come to me.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:14 pm 
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Artisan Hunter
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You left out "STAB STAB STAB STAB STAB!" from Talonclaw's special ability ;)


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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:32 am 
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Expert Hunter
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Funny i hate mele classes when not solo.

BM: so far i have not had the same issues might be the pet you use have you tried swapping it? yes hati is a bother at times thats why all my screenies of pets are in survival, o agree on the boring part but it feels as if it is all the classes and speccs mind you i am a veteran all the way from vanilla when we had to many buttons to hit.

SV: yeah can be fun but boy i hate going dungeons as mele, tank moves around with the mobs i have to move while hitting keys, my perfect placement constantly gets moved i hate it so for dungeons its BM or MM

MM: Eh its even more boring just hit aimed shot maybe use the bow ability oh an marked shot rinse repeat.

This is just my opinions and yeah some pets are impossible to keep alive not sure if blizzard is aware of it or not happens in SV and MM too when you run a pet build, my experience is that turtles and a lot of old world pets are better tanks for some reason..... i might be wrong but that is the feel i get but yeah SV is fun when solo but as one who hates being mele in group play its sad that the other speccs are so lacking.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:58 am 
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Expert Hunter
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All three specs are playable, and all have troubles of their own. I will leave MM out and move straight to SV:

Every now and then Harpoon doesn't work. It roots the target, places the Golden trait on it (Eagle's Bite I think? Cannot check from mobile), but doesn't pull you forward. It also reliably doesn't pull pet with you in quite a bit of situations.

Ice trap is good for dungeons to (for a time) take out an annoying mob out of the fight, like casters in HoV, however, outside that Survival doesn't have much to offer in terms of CC. A shaman can Hex same caster and still place stun totem after, whereas Surv can only slow - if your tank is into kiting I s'pose that works.

Explosive trap doesn't work on certain bosses / glitches out in certain terrace - Helya, Wrath of Azshara, out of the older world - Nalak, for example.

Survival is the only melee spec which cannot attack during its big defensive cooldown which is also its only one - Turtle.

Want more Mongoose bites? Grab a bird with Screech or other pet with special abilities and spec it into tenacity for more procs. Wanna run with your good old cat or wolf? Losing out on DPS, even if not big time.

Raptor strike currently is a joke and waste of place on the action bar.

Due to SV not having Misdirection, pulling a pack of 3+ mob is always thrilling as pet cannot keep aggro on them with proper use of AoE rotation.

In terms of PvP SV is easily controlled and due to the bursty nature of the spec can be stun locked / rooted / etc. for whole duration of Mongoose stacks, falling back to scratching.

AoE is dependant on CDs a big time - Explosive trap, Dragonsfire grenade, artifact ability. If even one is missing, like if your tank chainpulls or someone aggroed additional pack, SV's AoE limps a big time.

Golden traits for artifact are very uninspiring. Really, Eagle's bite? 3.5k dot? Really?

Despite all of the above, SV remains pretty fun. I dearly miss Disengage + Posthaste for proper kiting, but as we know Blizz hates that talent anyway :D

In dungeons, however, being the sortof leader, I prefer BM. In SV, I have to always pay attention to myself - CDs, Buffs, positioning and I cannot direct the group. In BM, being ranged, I already require minimal movement and don't lose out DPS on that + very easy if somewhat boring rotation that leaves enough control over battle.

+ amount of efforts I need to put on SV to catch up let alone overcome my damage on BM while chillingly taking boss down in BM and at that controlling the fight - when to BL / who battle ress whom / stop DPS at times (clean goo on Cordana before walls) / misdirect adds to tank and arrow 'em / roar of sacrifice and sometimes growl to give tank a breather on certain bosses / nasty trash.

BM has a lot of problems of its own:

Pet issues - pathing, Hati leisurely walking towards target and sometimes glitching at Kill Command or getting stuck.

Needing to spec for single target (Crows + Killer Cobra) or AoE (Volley + Stampede).

Lack of CC - with my tank being DK, we've gotten used for me to place Binding Arrow in front of the pack and then she Pulls one mob / caster through it and Gorefiends the rest if there are more casters.

Boring rotation.

Being stuck with certain pets if you wish to offer utility - BL / battle res / mortal strikes / Spirit Mend.

Pets get stuck / controlled = no DPS.

You feel like pets do everything for you with only Cobra shot being your own actual shooting ability.

________________

To summ it up: neither spec is perfect. Both have their problems and strong sides, some of them coming from one being Ranged and another Melee with all the consequences, another from spec design. SV is solid and needs tuning and close hard look at defensive(s). BM needs... Something more. I don't know what exactly, but spec is empty.

I like running around in SV, but in BM I take stuff down more efficienly, with less effort and at that not receiving a scratch being ranged. Partially it comes down to SV's weird Mastery, or lack of Misdirection.

Among Melee, SV has very few things to offer that others can't do on the same level or better and at that have something of their own.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:09 pm 
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Artisan Hunter
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I've only been playing BM this xpac (never liked MM and survival is an instant "congrats, you sit out of raid" ticket), so here's my thoughts.

zedxrgal wrote:
BM: MEDIC! Healer. Exhilaration! Bandage bandage bandage. Mend pet! For the love of God MEND PET. Revive pet. Curse. Rinse repeat. Basically myself and my pet die A LOT. To the point it's nerd rage creating. It shouldn't. But it really does. I cannot med pet fast enough. Heart of the Phoenix is mandatory but high cooldown and I take a serious beating while trying to revive pet. This is even with a tenacity pet. :( The simple fact that even in ok gear it's really really hard to keep a pet alive let alone myself.


If you're in BM and your pet is in tenacity and still having problems staying up, remember to pop Last Stand as well. The pet is your tank and should be treated as such - you need to move it around as needed, heal it of course, and pop defensives. Oh, and interrupts... most hunters are terrible at interrupting, but it can make a huge difference. So I haven't had any real problem with tanking pets dying.

Heart of the Phoenix is a ferocity ability and pets just don't have enough survivability to be tanking reliably in ferocity anymore.

Shelassa wrote:
BM has a lot of problems of its own:

Needing to spec for single target (Crows + Killer Cobra) or AoE (Volley + Stampede).

Lack of CC - with my tank being DK, we've gotten used for me to place Binding Arrow in front of the pack and then she Pulls one mob / caster through it and Gorefiends the rest if there are more casters.

Being stuck with certain pets if you wish to offer utility - BL / battle res / mortal strikes / Spirit Mend.

Pets get stuck / controlled = no DPS.


I don't respec for single target or AoE - I run Crows and Stampede for everything. Our beast cleave AoE is absolutely massive even without Volley/Barrage, though it doesn't have the spread that something like Barrage has.

You could try Wyvern Sting instead of Binding Shot for CC. I find Wyvern more useful outside of raids, but Binding is pretty much required in raids.

I agree I don't like being forced to carry: a spirit beast, for self heals (I spam heal myself like crazy in raids). A battle rez pet, in case the rest of the group wipes. A bloodlust pet, in case the mages and shammies all go on strike. And yes the pets get stuck on weird things and then you're trying to toggle them to passive and back, dismissing and resummoning, all while the world burns around you. :cry:

I'll also add the complaint that we have no decent DPS outside of CDs. I've been at the end of a long boss fight and trying to find ANYTHING to push to squeeze out a little more DPS before a boss enrage wipes the raid, and just can't. Once we've blown our CDs you literally are stuck auto attacking.

And additionally - why does Hati still have an aggro radius like a level 50 running around in Molten Core or something? :evil: I'm so terrified of pulling stuff in instances that I have to constantly dismiss my pet, wait for pet/Hati/dire beasts to despawn, and then pop Cheetah to catch up to everyone.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:54 pm 
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Expert Hunter
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I go around with Crows + Killer Cobra pretty much everywhere, raids and PvP included, unless me and the crew are running a Mythic+ and have problems with adds / meeting the timer due to adds (bosses are usually not a problem). Then Stampede is a must to melt trash down faster and in a more gruesome way :D

Another thing to add to the list is old raids, which for me is big. I run old content as much if not more than current for mogs / toys / mounts / pets, etc.:

At some point before Growl has been, apparently, nerfed according to Battle.net forums: it no longer affects raid bosses, including old ones. With Misdirection, even in the crooked state it is, up to Mythic Highmaul / BRF and HC HFC popping it at the same time with BW and blowing all you have is enough to keep the boss on the pet before next Misdirection comes up.

In Surv I didn't manage to have bosses aggro to the pet despite Flanking Strike greatly increasing its aggro + SV's Master of Survival (15% max health heal after killing a target) doesn't work outside Broken Isles as well as MM's Windrunning.

peanutbuttercup wrote:
I'll also add the complaint that we have no decent DPS outside of CDs. I've been at the end of a long boss fight and trying to find ANYTHING to push to squeeze out a little more DPS before a boss enrage wipes the raid, and just can't. Once we've blown our CDs you literally are stuck auto attacking.

This is the feeling I've been complaining about most about BM in other threads. To summ it up: we've had a certain toolkit that we've all been reliant to take care of certain situations in the world / dungeons / raids, and now like half of it is missing if not more. So there you are, watching situations occur that you could deal with before or just plain run out of buttons to press and feel like your hands have been tied behind your back :| A lot of time there is certain situation, including running out of things to press, where I go like "Damn, what can I... what to do..." :D


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