Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by SpiritBinder »

Well dang, that took all morning to write, but I gave it a good crack.
Draven wrote:1stly, As much as all of this has likely been covered here already, I’d like to add my concern and support to all those before me in this thread. I considered not leaving feedback as I feel a lot of my opinion has potentially been covered already, but I am going to so my voice is also heard and added to the collective, I didn’t what my absence from the thread to mean that I’m ok with where hunters are, far from it.

As with many other, I’m Hunter through and through and through.
Have played since late vanilla, played casual, bleeding edge progression and PVP.
I’ve name swapped, race swapped, faction swapped, but it’s still my one and only original.
I have stuck through with it through thick and thin, it has always been my main and 1st character to ever touch any expansion, and I LOVE my pets.
I have played all specs back and forth over the years but have settled in BM only over the last expansion and thus I’ll only provide feedback on that.


P E T S

Over many years Jeremy Feasel (AKA Muffinus/Noah) has been tireless working with the hunter community bringing us so many wonderful model/skin/pet options that would never have been available without his constant help. With him being such a nice guy, he’s now front a center in WOW and not able to help in the way he once did. His apprentice (“Don’t worry apprentices are super cool! ~ Kadgar”) whom we shall call Shem, has stepped into his shoes. Again Shem has been going above and beyond to keep this going. All the exciting trick/loot/special tames coming in Legion are down to this lovely fella.

Now unfortunately, all this falls flat when the our class designers haven’t done a single pass on pets, ever, other than strip out family Buffs. It has left them in a shambles the likes I have not seen to date. Over the years there has been a lot of love time dedicated to pets, and to see them so broken now is really disappointing. Simply put, please please look into this, It’s such a massive oversight of the class and undermines all the work Noah and Shem have put in to date.

♦ Survivability

Pets survivability is at a level so low I’m just not sure it’s intended. The removal of so many customisable glyphs to help improve their survivability, and nothing in their stead has been the major culprit. If the plan is to have our pets take this much damage now, that’s could be ok, but only if the baseline heal of Mend Pet is boosted significantly. This would add a level of mirco managing your pet a little more, but if you do it well you can offset it (Keeping Mend pet rolling or something similar)

That said, with the removal of Spiritbond, Adaption, the timer on Mend pet (Why this has ever been added I have literally no idea), cower (removed in MoP) etc. etc. it’s been death (of my pets) by a thousand cuts. I’m not sure if this is something that could be addressed via a pet pass, but my poor pets are getting trashed like they never have before and I feel guilty and terrible at my spec as a BM

♦ Exotics and BM

I really liked the idea of BM having an ability to tame beasts that are otherwise too unruly or wild to master. It really plays nicely into being "I'm a Master of Beasts". And I get that as being such a wonderful idea, but sadly and however also understandably, the visual representation of what is and isn't exotic has now just been eroded and blurred into oblivion due to "Sharing the Shiny Love” among all hunters. I love them and the idea, but I’m not sure how they fit in anymore. If your looking at pets, maybe this is something that could be addressed or evolved somehow.

That said, maybe giving BM's the ability to further enhance any pet (via an additional ability/skillset/menu or what have you) they tame could be an elegant way to bring that exact feeling of "I'm a Master of Beasts" back to the spec, which ever system you think this could work in.


A B I L I T I E S

As others have mentioned, in all the years of playing I’ve never had my hunter feel so unfamiliar/foreign to me, to the point that my interest in the class and game I have dropped off in a way it never has to me before. And to be honest, It makes be so sad because I want to love it, I really do.

You’ve been trying to bring the fantasy back to the class/specs, you say that classes became to homogenized, and without weaknesses there can’t be any strengths. Before homogenization Hunters strengths have always been ~


♦ Kiting

We have all but lost this ability, and it has been something that could make a good hunter shine. The loss of our original Aspect of the Cheetah was one things that hit me hard. If at any point of the last 10+ years it was overpowered it was never mentioned/nerfed. It was a truly unique speed increase mechanic that we have always had. It’s removal (in combination with frost trap) has crippled our kiting capability into near impossibility. The replacement AotC is actually far more homogenized that the prior, it’s unoriginal and has an effect and cooldown that rates just terribly compared to others it's mirroring. I can see it being a potential boon for SV hunters being melee, but for a ranged hunter it’s just so weak compared to what we’ve had since wow was unboxed.
This was always our strength.


♦ Trapping

Trapping and CC. As a BM hunter, I now have Zero CC ability unless I spec into it. Again I understand you are trying to get back to the fantasy, to cut back on the homogenization, but trapping has always been ours and our strength, it took skill, and timing also something that could make a good hunter shine. It’s does not have to be an freezing trap if that does not play into a BM fantasy (call it an Amber trap, Bear Trap, or what have you), but please, for the love of all things huntery, the return of a CC trap needs to be in our toolkit.
This was always our strength.


♦ Unique skillset.

Other things missing from our toolkit that I feel have been removed to the detriment of the class/spec, that are unique and not making our rotation overly complex nor over powered.
Distracting shot has been around since BC and has always been an amazing niche mechanic to help out a friend in a pinch. It’s removal is really unfortunate.
Misdirection has changed for the worse. Prior you could cast it on your target, then, and only then and once you began to damage something the threat would then transfer to your target for the next 6 seconds. Now, once you cast it on a target the buff instantly activates and starts counting down. If you’re not damaging the instant you cast it, it’s used, it’s wasted transferring time, and is put of a 30 second cooldown. Also, this is one of my biggest issues is the removal of the MD Glyph on your pet. I’ve get so many mobs on me from doing so little now without this glyph. It's likely a combination of having to have mend pet consonantly rolling and other abilities that give me threat that I'm unaware of. All the while I’m almost using FD on cooldown like it’s DPS gain. Could this possibly just be rolled into MD as a skill itself?
Spiritbonds removal has made a rather large impact on me as a more recently casual/solo-small group player. Again I never found it OP in any major group/competitive playing, more of a quality of life that really helped keep myself and my pet up, and now it’s left both of us falling over on so many things I’ve been left a little shell shocked.


I also found the removal of some of our skills/abilities, only to be re-gifted to use in the form a legendary, really off putting.

The Apex Predator's Claw
Equip: Your pet gains the passive abilities of all pet specializations and deals 10% increased damage.

Our previously owned Adaption

Roar of the Seven Lions
Equip: Bestial Wrath reduces the Focus cost of all your abilities by 20%.

Our previously owned Bestial Wrath perk

Roots of Shaladrassil
Equip: Standing still causes you to send deep roots into the ground, healing you for 4% of your maximum health every 3 sec.

Our previously owned Spirtbond.


It feels like we’ve gone backwards, not forwards. We have not become stronger somehow, but made weaker and have to find what was ours again. It also has the unfortunate consequence of making the legendry’s feels cheap and uninteresting which is really unfortunate. There is a real chance to be creative here.

All in all, It literally comes down to I LOVE my hunter and I love this game. Some of this might sound ungrateful or impolite (sorry if it does), but it comes from a place that I really really care, I am invested in my character and I want the best for it and the game.

T A N N O NT H E S P I R I T B I N D E R

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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by Makoes »

I commented here: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topi ... =5#post-84

And Melissa, I linked you're request in my follow up post here: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topi ... 6#post-120

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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by Xota »

I posted too. My gripes/suggestions:
Survival needs more non-combat speed boosts.
Pets need abilities, linking to this post.
BM animations with holstered weapon.
Hati (Name and dismissing independently of real pet).
"too few buttons"/"too much waiting"
MM gun/BM bow (that looks like a bow).

I hope they address some of the feedback, even if it's not mine. And really addressing it, not Ion's "I've already made up our minds, and you'll like it" way of addressing feedback.

Now if only I could find a similar last minute feedback request for druids. I only have two gripes/suggestions, but they're going to drive me crazy (and would probably be easier to fix, without forcing a change on anyone who didn't want it).
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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by Nachtwulf »

Small hotfix note:

Exhilaration (Marksmanship) now heals the Hunter for 30% of maximum health and the Hunter’s pet for 100%.
Volley now deals additional damage at 100% of Attack Power (was 75%).
Murder of Crows (Marksmanship) now deals damage equal to 162% of Attack Power (was 135%).

The first one is probably most relevant. (I hope it's not actually just marks though 'cause... lol marks pets. Will check on my bm hunter.)

Edit: Hotfix confirmed to be BM too (and probably surv).

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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by Lupen202 »

So, is the first one just a flat out nerf for MMs with lone wolf, down from 50%? Or does it heal you for more without a pet? :s Wanted more survivability not less.

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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by Nachtwulf »

Probably the same. But I don't MM so idk.

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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by Kalliope »

Exhilaration heals you whether or not you have a pet out/alive, regardless of spec.

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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by Lupen202 »

Yes, but currently on live it heals you for 50%. With that hotfix however, it'll apparently heal you for 30% instead... plus your pet.

Which is amazing for BM, but seems like nothing but a nerf for MM. Would be nice if when Lone wolf was taken as MM you were healed for more to compensate for the lack of a pet. The 50% we have now has been fine.

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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by Kalliope »

Lupen202 wrote:Yes, but currently on live it heals you for 50%. With that hotfix however, it'll apparently heal you for 30% instead... plus your pet.

Which is amazing for BM, but seems like nothing but a nerf for MM. Would be nice if when Lone wolf was taken as MM you were healed for more to compensate for the lack of a pet. The 50% we have now has been fine.
That's not amazing for BM. Pets already get healed to full by exhilaration. It's a nerf for everyone.

I don't get why our self-heal is getting nerfed when we don't have as many survival cds to begin with anymore.

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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by Lupen202 »

Ah, ignore me then... I haven't played BM since pre-patch so I had no clue. :( I thought it was always just a 50% heal for the player across all specs. Well dang.

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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by Nachtwulf »

Actually I'm pretty sure that up until the hotfix, Exhil DIDN'T heal your pet. I found that out the hard way (thanks invasions). -Old- Exhil did, I think, but not the new one.

It would be fair to MM to give them back the 50%-no pet heal if they took LW, but since it's per spec... maybe they feel that it'd be OP to have a pet and 50% healing, idk.

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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by Kalliope »

Nachtwulf wrote:Actually I'm pretty sure that up until the hotfix, Exhil DIDN'T heal your pet. I found that out the hard way (thanks invasions). -Old- Exhil did, I think, but not the new one.
I've been pet-tanking things with exhilaration since the patch, so no, it's been working on pets. Unless it was broken in specs other than BM or something weird like that.

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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by Sukurachi »

I GET IT!

Blizzard's offices are in "reverse world"!

So now, all we have to do is beg Blizzard to please nerf our favourite classes into the ground.. remove ALL healing, ALL CC, ALL intelligent AI for our pets....

Maybe that will help them put the things we DO want back into the game.

Because right now, it's as if they are asking us what we want, then saying "F... you" and doing the opposite.

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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by Lisaara »

Kalliope wrote:
Nachtwulf wrote:Actually I'm pretty sure that up until the hotfix, Exhil DIDN'T heal your pet. I found that out the hard way (thanks invasions). -Old- Exhil did, I think, but not the new one.
I've been pet-tanking things with exhilaration since the patch, so no, it's been working on pets. Unless it was broken in specs other than BM or something weird like that.
It's been working on pets. I use it a lot. XD

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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by Kurasu »

Exhileration on BM is 30% hunter/100% pet pre-hotfix.

Exhileration on MM is, apparently, 50% hunter straight up pre-hotfix.

So it's not a nerf for BM. It's bringing MM to match with BM. Whether that's good or bad, I don't know.
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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by Nachtwulf »

I feel like Bliz doesn't know what to do about Marks.

Despite the fact that everyone complained badly enough to make them not make the entire spec 100% pet free... they haven't actually lifted a finger to make having a pet as Marks worth a damn. Right now, if you don't take Lone Wolf... just like before, you're gimped. Having a pet is a serious detriment to your usefulness because neither of the talents in that row are anything like worth what LW offers, and on top of that there's absolutely zero synergy between your pet and any marks abilities/artifact abilities.

I suppose this might be intended to aid people that want to level/quest Marks from the get go and talent out of LW for solo content, but... isn't that what Black Arrow and its temp tank was for?

Like I said in my post on the aforementioned thread, either just get RID of the pet entirely and bake LW into Marks again (freeing up a talent slot for something else) or make having a pet as Marks have /some/ value. Because right now, it's a false choice. Either you take Lone Wolf or you're a bad player, as it stands right now.

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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by Kalliope »

Marks also has Hunting Party, a passive that reduces the cooldown on Exhilaration by 30s.

No wonder Blizzard brought marks back into line with the other specs. If marks can self-heal more than once every 2m, then a 50% heal would be way too much.

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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by Sukurachi »

I've now played MANY hours with my hunters (yes plural.. like 20 of them) with the invasions.

I understand that the invasions are a particular thing, and that it is unrealistic to gauge Hunter abilities by seeing how one fairs in an invasion.

However, I've finding more and more things that annoy the heck out of me.

Sure pet healing REALLY sucks. As I wrote earlier (or in another thread?) I'm starting to see what were once my favourite levelling companions as "expendable resources" rather than as companions. "Meh, cat died again".

But the healing is so slow, so little, and that damned cooldown.
I found myself constantly staring at my action bars, rather than at the screen and what was happening, lest I should miss an ability coming off cooldown.

There's something seriously wrong when the game won't let you actually WATCH the game because you have to concentrate on spell/ability cooldowns. I spent the last few days with my eyes firmly glued to the bottom 2 inches of my monitor.

Ok, first serious complaint: Bestial Wrath, "Bestial Wrath's remaining cooldown is reduced by 30 sec each time you use Dire Beast".
Yeah, I'm gonna call BS on that one. I'm sure it does.. if you can get a Dire Beast to itself be off cooldown

After much experimenting, I learned the BS way to get this to work was to NOT cast Dire Beast when it was off its cooldown if you saw that bestial Wrath was coming close to being off ITS cooldown.

That is WAAAAAY too much staring at the bottom of the screen and waiting for cooldowns.

Bestial Wrath lasts 15 seconds.
Dire beast is on a nearly 10 second cooldown.
Why even bother. You're lucky if you can get it to proc the cooldown timer reduction once. Forget about even hoping for it to happen twice.
And of course, without Bestial Wrath, you're doing crap damage.

And again.. that is WAY too much staring at buttons waiting for cooldowns to end.
Oh, and Dire Beast is on the global timer too, so if you just so happen to have cast something else just before, you have to WAIT to cast it.

Anyway, Blizzard really screwed the pooch with these changes.
I don't care if all of this is meant to work with your artifact weapon. Players spend 100 levels GETTING to their artifact weapon, so why do they get screwed over for those 100 levels?

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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by Quiv »

Sukurachi wrote:Sure pet healing REALLY sucks. As I wrote earlier (or in another thread?) I'm starting to see what were once my favourite levelling companions as "expendable resources" rather than as companions. "Meh, cat died again".
This is one of the design choices that really bugs me. Even as Beast Mastery, you're absolutely right. The pet is just a resource. While convenient, the quick cast on Revive Pet reinforces this. This bugs me because it goes so contrary to the class fantasy I thought they were trying to focus on. (Same goes with the Lone Wolf issue in Marks).
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Re: Last minute official Hunter feedback thread!

Unread post by Rhyela »

Add to that that so many pets don't even have an ability anymore, and they really do become just an accessory. A ravager is the same as a bear is the same as a wolf; plus they die instantly; plus their AI is all jacked up. I mean, there are some pets that I really do love, but even I am sort of feeling that little gnawing feeling that there's just something off with them. They seriously need to do something with pets, and fast.

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