Blizzard gut feelings and Maldonado's tweets

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Wain
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Blizzard gut feelings and Maldonado's tweets

Unread post by Wain »

Note I split these posts off from my "skin mash-ups" thread, because they were worth discussing but were way off-topic for there ;)


Qraljar wrote: I really hope Noah does take a look at most of these, but I imagine he already did, given that you two are fairly connected.
I haven't heard from him in ages, but then he goes through long periods of silence depending on how busy he is. He's probably insanely busy getting WoD ready for beta or something.

I do wonder if Dave Maldonado personally reads Petopia as well. If he does I'm not aware of him, but some of his recent tweets sounded uncannily like he does.

e.g. https://twitter.com/Dave_Maldo/status/4 ... 9033793537
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Re: Miscellaneous skin mash-ups

Unread post by Qraljar »

Hmh, yeah, I think he does. And I asked him some questions about pterrorwings/skyscreamers and kunchong. He said skyscreamer could likely make it in as a pet, along with old world dino models, but wasn't sure about kunchong. In fact, he said it was very unlikely.


Y'know, a part of me died at that. Especially given your skin mash-ups and beautiful colorations. I really don't understand it. I really don't. I know kunchongs and silithid colossi are different, but silithid colossi have enough going for them that should bar them from being tameable as well. Namely that they are intelligent. More so than kunchong, even. At the same time, I don't see there being any other silithid colossus-looking beasts in the future.


So effectively, they want silithid lovers to stick with the one vanilla model with 9 year old graphics, while there are beautiful up-to-date versions with slight differences right there for the taking.


It's the equivalent of Blizzard creating the Pandaria tiger models and telling hunters to "gtfo, go play with your 9-year old blocky STV tiger models." Or taking the new devilsaur model and going "see this? You can't have it. Have fun with your old ones."


And somehow, they can make Kovok a battle pet, despite any opposition they might have towards kunchong becoming tameable pets.


So, yeah. As a silithid/bug lover, I'm still more than frustrated and sad at it.
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Re: Miscellaneous skin mash-ups

Unread post by Wain »

That is odd, since silithid colossi are presumably the same type of creature as a kunchong. Silithid hives seem to be composed of a number of different bug-like creatures, and not all are considered to be true "silithids", at least as far as taming is concered. Their wasps and beetles are grouped with other creatures that have similar physiologies. The colossi could really just be split off in the same way and put into a kunchong family. The silithids still have decent variety without them.

While he's clearly well aware of hunter desires for new pets, which is great, I do wonder if he's spent much time in the game with some of these creatures he's making future decisions for. For example, while I understand shale spiders are very elemental in texture, they're also VERY organic and lively in both characteristics and animation. Endearing in many ways and very believable as a beast in game play. On the other hand, goats, which I suspect he had a say in selecting, are about as alien and robotic in their look and animations as you can get, at least in my experience. So there's much more to the look and feel of hunter pets than whether it's a beast of elemental or organic origin (or a mix of both), and I think most people who played with them regularly would intuit this. (Actually... in beta play both mushan and yaks created a greater feeling of empathy than goats. Hell, even kunchong probably would have. So I'm really not sure what they're basing their decisions on!).
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Re: Miscellaneous skin mash-ups

Unread post by SpiritBinder »

Also I personally think that the addition of untamable beasts and families that they make into dire beasts (that seem to work just dandy as a pet might I add) could be seen as just a tad evil.... But hey, I'm sure they know that. >.>

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Re: Miscellaneous skin mash-ups

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SpiritBinder wrote:Also I personally think that the addition of untamable beasts and families that they make into dire beasts (that seem to work just dandy as a pet might I add) could be seen as just a tad evil.... But hey, I'm sure they know that. >.>
I kinda like that we get to use them in some way. I also like to hope (but may be wrong) that they're kind of screen tests for future tameables. Cross fingers :)
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Re: Miscellaneous skin mash-ups

Unread post by Qraljar »

Honestly. Lately, tweets about flavor things like pets, items, transmogrification make me scratch my head more and more. It all sounds so... arbitrary. Just take the next few tweet responses from Dave Maldo:

Aw... that's a real shame. That weapon and shield are beautiful. Any chance for them to be added? Maybe along with glaives?
Shield too big & glaives discouraged internally, but maybe! Ideal time would've been back when BE warriors were introduced. T_T
Can we ask why glaives are discouraged?
Some decisions, old & new, are flavor, or lore, or art; just "gut"/feels stuff. Sometimes they change, sometimes not.
Speaking of funky gas masks... any chance of making that thing transmoggable? With or without the backpack.
A chance, perhaps, but it's not quite in line w/ current item/reward philosophy.

I mean? Seriously. I know that, in this regard, Dave Maldo is just really the messenger. He might have had a say in all these decisions, but that doesn't mean it's his fault that things are like this.

Nonetheless, this feels so silly.

Shields are too big? Glaives not being an acceptable obtainable reward is a tradition because of old decisions and 'feelings'? A completely normal model not being transmogrifiable because it doesn't 'sparkle' with their current item/reward philosophy? Ten times what.


This all feels like Ghostcrawler's "We don't like hydra models." comment times three.

Fine, you guys don't like it, but you are creating this game for your customers. That you enjoy it is good for you, but you are catering to those who pay you. Many of those customers have wanted glaive models (that already exist in the database and just have to be made available) for years and the answer is just straight-up "yeah sorry, gut feeling. we don't really like people running around with that because we don't like the look."


Shield too big? Huh. So Bulwark of Azzinoth doesn't exist? Elementium Reinforced Bulwark anyone? No..? Brutal Gladiator Shield Wall then? That just vanished, I guess?


My whole peeve with this is that it seems that Blizzard is keeping a lot of players from obtaining or doing things they have wanted for a long time just because it "doesn't feel good" to them? And I am not talking about huge changes, like making hunter pet airplanes, or giving mages the ability to wear plate armor. This is aesthetic. Poor conduct, really. Broadening the aesthetic horizon and availability should be encouraged, not blocked/walled away because of silly things like 'developer gut feelings'.
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Re: Miscellaneous skin mash-ups

Unread post by GormanGhaste »

Qraljar wrote:Lately, tweets about flavor things like transmogrification make me scratch my head more and more. It all sounds so... arbitrary. A completely normal model not being transmogable because it doesn't 'sparkle' with their current item/reward philosophy? The answer is just straight-up "yeah sorry, gut feeling. we don't really like people running around with that because we don't like the look."

My whole peeve with this is that it seems that Blizzard is keeping a lot of players from obtaining or doing things they have wanted for a long time just because it "doesn't feel good" to them? And I am not talking about huge changes, this is aesthetic. Broadening the aesthetic horizon and availability should be encouraged, not blocked/walled away because of silly things like 'developer gut feelings'.
Yes, I agree. I was hoping that they would have become less conservative about transmog by this point. I don't mind the armor class requirement, but what's the harm in letting us transmog white items (or green items that don't have stats)? And I would love the ability to not display gloves, boots, and especially shoulders. I understand wanting to have a certain look for the game. I don't think player choices have as large an effect on that as they seem to assume, but I'm sure other people would disagree. Even so, we're not asking for designs that aren't already in game. And if the art department thinks ridiculously-sized shoulders are what defines wow, that's fine. Just give those of us who don't want to poke our eyes out whenever we turn our heads a chance to opt out!
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Re: Blizzard gut feelings and Maldonado's tweets

Unread post by Wain »

Ok I moved this to WoW General, since the philosophies being discussed are obviously more widely applicable than just to pets.

Like Gorm, I also expected some of the initial conservatism around transmog gear (which was reasonable when it was new and they had to be cautious) to have been lifted by this point. I believe I've looked at every last grey and white piece of armour in the game, and I can say that all but a very, very few are just colour variations on the same art already used for transmog. In many cases there are white pieces that would complete sets where the majority are already available for transmog. The "novelty" and weird items are a tiny subset, so the idea that grey/white item art is less suitable for transmog is just a myth.

But... to me it feels like a degree of greater conservatism has reigned over the past couple of years, at a time when I feel they could probably afford to be more generous with older items and things that don't award power. I personally believe they've changed their mind-set to gain the most they can out of things they already own.

I can understand Blizzard wanting to get as much benefit as they can from their original art assets, but the fact is that art is becoming severely dated and its appeal is becoming more and more limited with every expansion. What I mean is, many players might be enthused to see colours of gear that were limited to grey / white items become available for transmog, but if the designers try to make a Big Thing out of it then I suspect it'll fall flat.

I believe we saw this already with the re-introduction of old weaponsmithing art in 5.2. Many of those were pretty awesome looks for old art, but the designers made such a thing out of the months required to produce just one that it felt like it quickly lost its appeal. In summary: "we like them, but not THAT much".

Most of the grey/white gear uses far less exciting graphics than those weapons, so I don't know what gain they think they can leverage out of them that will outweigh the risk of looking frugal, if not stingy.

I also wonder if the Cataclysm beta had occurred right now, whether we'd still have seen the vast numbers of pet colours we did, or whether Noah would have been hobbled. Of course I have no idea, but I do wonder :)
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Re: Blizzard gut feelings and Maldonado's tweets

Unread post by Castile »

I'm still waiting (and hoping) we'll be able to xmog legendaries eventually :) I realise they like the whole "special snowflake" thing of them but really why run MC over and over for thunderfury if you can't always show it off? Wouldn't it be better for players to be able to use the old models now than to have them locked away in banks? And wasn't the whole point of xmog to get ppl interested in old content again? Just my 2 cents :)

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Re: Blizzard gut feelings and Maldonado's tweets

Unread post by Wain »

Qralijar,

I just read the series of tweets you reported on: https://twitter.com/Dave_Maldo/status/4 ... 1586501632

I don't use Twitter so unfortunately I can't reply to something he said, which was regarding the Silvermoon Guard outfit, which sparked that whole discussion.

It's true there's no proper armour texture for that set. They just pasted slabs of robe on a blood elf skin. BUT the texture sections they pasted were based on a proper armour texture, which hasn't been used on available gear (as far as I can tell). It would look a little different, as they pasted some bits upside-down and it also got stretched and distorted on the guards. But the original would probably look a lot better.

The armour skin code for the pieces is leather_blood_c_02_* . The only piece missing is the shoulders. BUT the shoulders the guards use do have a proper armour texture, called leather_blood_c_03.blp and it looks like it was designed for the pieces i mentioned above. In fact I suspect the only reason it's missing from the armour folder is they copied it to the guard during BC and then forgot it needed to be in two places.

In short, you couldn't have a robe that was identical to that of the guards, but they could easily make a full set that would look similar but probably a lot better / less distorted.
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Re: Blizzard gut feelings and Maldonado's tweets

Unread post by Xota »

While I understand the regret over shale spiders being tameable, I don't get why not kunchong. There's even a set of quests where you run around with a small one as a pet. But brain bug silithid are pets? It seems backwards, like the biggest problem is that they aren't technically 'silithid'. It's the same thing with nerubian fliers and spiderlings. Both great looking models, but seemingly little chance of them ever being made into silithids. And I love silithid for pvp, stam + webbing is great. But the models just feel bleh or over the top.

I have a feeling that their reasoning is mostly inertia. They don't want to do a bunch of constant changes, so they leave us with outdated models.
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Re: Blizzard gut feelings and Maldonado's tweets

Unread post by Davarra »

I remember a cute white quality leather armor set in the Goblin tutorial that I would have LOVED to have for real use. Quite a few of the newbie robes, BE caster staff, that really nice sword from NE lowbie quests...you get the idea.

EQ2 has an interesting transmog system. If you can equip it, you can mog to it. Two handed katana when you're actually sword and boarding? No problem! Decorative cloth on a chain dps? Bring it on!

In fact, there are statsless all/all gear sets craftable, gotten from quests and events, and buyable from the cash store.

Oh, and it's free...it simply acts as a second set of worn slots.

Blizz could do well to take some notes...

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Re: Blizzard gut feelings and Maldonado's tweets

Unread post by Aeladrine »

There are SO MANY white items I would LOVE to be able to use for transmog. All BE starting gear (and that lovely orange recolour of the starting BE staff you can buy in their starting zone to match the red robes). A good bit of low level tailoring stuff, since it's lovely. Just so many things I would like to be able to use. (And I would also adore the option to turn off shoulderpads. I hate them.)

I would ALSO like for hunters/shamans to be able to transmog leather and for plate wearers to be able to transmog mail, since they start with those... But that's far more unlikely. Which is a total shame.

(Eventually I'd love a GW2 style transmogging, where we can dye things and wear whatever we want to. Sometimes I want my paladins to look like flower girls and my warlocks to look like giant walking tanks. I know they've stated that they think it could cause problems in PvP, but gosh I am sick of having to suck it up and not have cool things because of PvP. Just make it so your transmogs don't work in BGs and arenas. Everyone can see that they're all wearing the same dumb PvP gear and shut up.)
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