Proto-Drake question

[PorrasouxRex]

So, I've seen the new Upper Blackrock Spire videos, and how the new fights look (very cool by the way) And now I'm very curious. Yes, I know this looks like "hurr hurr a hunter wants to tame dragons again" kind of question. And yes, I know these are the dragonmaw we're talking about. But, it just seems like they aren't really being "enslaved" per say. They just seem more like beastial dragons to me. Not like the intelligent, and powerful cousins such as the Aspects (who yes, did originate from proto-drakes even though they "evolved" from the Titan's powers)

Now, perhaps Hunters don't exactly "tame" them. But still, from what I've seen of the dragonmaw, Proto-drakes seem willing enough to let them ride them, and fight for them. Usually dragons who would be "enslaved" would fight WITH us if we're attacking their master. Heck, even in Wrath of the Lich King we had instances where (the race's name I forgot) were using them too. Galakras, who has the blood of the original proto-drake brood queen running through it's veins, yet it allowed Zaela to use its powers and died for her. So I'm just here scratching my head at the possibility. Though Rylaks are very cool, draconic pets. You could even call Chimaeron a "slightly" draconic looking abomination. So it's not like WoD doesn't have dragon pets, I'm just questioning if Proto-drakes could be possible one day.

[cowmuflage]

As much as I love Protos (and that's heaps btw they are the best) I'd rather not see them be tameable. I think they are better as mounts then as pets.

[Wain]

I wouldn't be too averse to protos being tameable in that while they are the precursors for dragons, they aren't truly dragons. I gather that they're included in dragonkin because of that ancestry but they're probably no cleverer or more draconic than your average cloud serpent.

I know there are a lot of personal judgements in that statement and I know I could well be wrong, but the impression I got from Northrend is that they're pretty much just another beast by nature. Many of them were classed as beasts during the early days and even into Cata. I remember compiling a list of ones that were classed as beasts and asking if they should be changed, which they were.

[PorrasouxRex]

I wouldn't be too averse to protos being tameable in that while they are the precursors for dragons, they aren't truly dragons. I gather that they're included in dragonkin because of that ancestry but they're probably no cleverer or more draconic than your average cloud serpent.

I know there are a lot of personal judgements in that statement and I know I could well be wrong, but the impression I got from Northrend is that they're pretty much just another beast by nature. Many of them were classed as beasts during the early days and even into Cata. I remember compiling a list of ones that were classed as beasts and asking if they should be changed, which they were.

And as I said, many races have shown they can "tame" them such as the Dragonmaw, or those guys from northrend in the Howling Fjord. Even in Icecrown we saw many races use them in combat.

[cowmuflage]

Only the vrykul in Northrend used them and they only used them as mounts. They never where used as pets to my knowledge.

[cowmuflage]

Also yes I do know they used them to attack things :p I just forgot

[PorrasouxRex]

Also yes I do know they used them to attack things :p I just forgot

Ah, that's right the Vrykul. We had that one who drops an Azure Proto drake use him as sort of a pet. He was at the drake's side before mounting it to attack us. They had a lot of proto drakes in the instances we had in Howling Fjord. For example an entire barn filled with drakes. They were willing to be breed and raised for mounting and attacking things alongside the Vrykul. Another "barn" can be found in Icecrown, as well as Grizzily Hills. In the new Instance for Blackrock spire we have a proto-drake broodmother guarding Warlord Zaela, even using her own children to guard her and Zaela. When we fight Zaela she has an entire pack of armored drakes protecting her throughout the fight. Even having Proto-drake trash alongside other dragonmaw elite. Plus, again Galakras can also be considered her "pet" more than her mount. Because once we shot it out of the sky she didn't really try to escape because Zaela fell off too. Oh no, Galakras went at us tooth and claw while Zaela escaped.

[cowmuflage]

Those still feel like mounts more then pets to me.

[PorrasouxRex]

Those still feel like mounts more then pets to me.

Well, I mean, look at how many other pets we have available to us that are also mounts. Only difference is they can fly. Heck, Rylaks are another example too. They look draconic, yet we're also riding them as mounts. Even a boss in blackrock spire that uses a Rylak to attack us.

[Lisaara]

I still say no. Leave my dragons alone, plox. D: Beast like as they may be, that doesn't mean that should be a hunter pet. Some beasts are beyond hunters and dragons of all kinds should stay that way. Also Zaela enslaved Galakras. All those protos were enslaved. I'd rather not hunters be slave drivers of dragons.

[SylviaDragon]

I wouldn't be too averse to protos being tameable in that while they are the precursors for dragons, they aren't truly dragons. I gather that they're included in dragonkin because of that ancestry but they're probably no cleverer or more draconic than your average cloud serpent.

I know there are a lot of personal judgements in that statement and I know I could well be wrong, but the impression I got from Northrend is that they're pretty much just another beast by nature. Many of them were classed as beasts during the early days and even into Cata. I remember compiling a list of ones that were classed as beasts and asking if they should be changed, which they were.

more or less a summary of my feelings. leave the aspects and their flights alone but there are many dragon-like sub species who I think could be considered more beast like.

[Wain]

This reminds me of something that applies to all discussion threads.

Personal feelings, likes and dislikes vary a LOT between posters, which is good.

Discussion will go much smoother, and also less heated if you express personal beliefs as just that, and things you don't have hard facts about are stated as gut feelings. If you have documentary evidence of in-game text, or a member of Blizzard saying that something *IS* a certain way then it'd be really cool if you can list it for us all to see, or at least mention that you have seen it. Otherwise, our ideas of how things are are just our ideas, no matter how personally convicted we are.

[Lisaara]

http://wowpedia.org/Warlord_Zaela

"Zaela was summoned by Garrosh to help put down the burgeoning Darkspear Rebellion; she is found at the Dranosh'ar Blockade projecting her will (possibly via the Demon Chain) onto an enslaved proto drake. SI:7 agents are sent to spy on her and overhear her converse with a nearby dark shaman; she expresses disdain for the trolls' rebellion, and maintains hope that Garrosh will move against them soon. She is surrounded by corpses of executed trolls."

Just incase anyone wasn't aware that she infact was enslaving protodrakes. Every single one we saw was enslaved, Galakras is likely included but Blizz remained a bit vague about it.

[Qraljar]

I'm okay with this idea. In fact, I think Cloud Serpents and Proto-Drakes should become tameable. Especially Cloud Serpents for Pandaren Hunters would be amazing.



Whatever the case, they're cool, and in many cases, they're not intelligent beyond being beasts. Not making Proto-Drakes tameable because of Dragons would be like not making wolves tameable because of Worgen, or boars because of Quillboars, or not making monkeys tameable because of Hozen, or Spiders because of Nerubians, Silithids because of Qiraji, etc etc. The only reason Proto-Drakes ever became Dragons was because of magic, because of Titan involvement.


Proto-drakes are beast, and therefore I thumb up their inclusion as a possibly tameable family. Cloud Serpents are also beasts. Arguing against them because of few cases of God Serpents talking would be like arguing against Pandaria tigers because of Xuen talking, or against Cranes because of Chi-Ji.


I'm all for them! More so Cloud Serpents, because those are just awesome!


Would want to make them special, though. Have something like the Direhorn book, rather than just being tameable. Plus exotic. At least Cloud Serpents, that is.

[Azunara]

The way I see it is:

A. Proto drakes/cloud serpents are friggen huge when you logically think about it. Shrinking them down will be annoying and it's gonna cause some issues for the animations, let's face it.

B. On the case of cloud serpents, they seem to be far more...revered than proto-drakes? Somehow I don't pandas will be cool with you taming one of the blue and naming it Scruffles. The whole learning how to ride Cloud Serpents chain boiled down to you making a huge sacred bond with your cloud serpent. Going out and taming it seems silly. (inb4 why not make a quest chain for hunters only to do that? Because there are 10 other classes in game).

C. Proto-drakes in every case as far as I can tell have been enslaved.

D. The inevitable (they're cool and special, thereby EXOTIC) and the resulting QQ storm that would entail would be the most obnoxious thing under the sun.

E. I just don't know. Yes, they're bestial. But it's like taming a gryphon or a hippogryph or a horse. There are some beasts in my mind that just shouldn't be tamable. Hunters shouldn't be able to tame everything under the sun, imho. There's a time and place for wishful thinking, and then there's "IT'S GOT A BEAST TAG GET IN MY STABLE". Proto-drakes/cloud serpents just fall too close to the "more mount than pet" side of things. And yes, I'm aware triceratops and devilsaurs and etc. etc are used as mounts. But there's also a bunch of feral groups of them not reliant on people. Every proto-drake/cloud-serpent/gryphon/it goes on and on seem to be closely related to people with minimal exceptions. Pet just doesn't seem right.

[Lisaara]

I'm okay with this idea. In fact, I think Cloud Serpents and Proto-Drakes should become tameable. Especially Cloud Serpents for Pandaren Hunters would be amazing.



Whatever the case, they're cool, and in many cases, they're not intelligent beyond being beasts. Not making Proto-Drakes tameable because of Dragons would be like not making wolves tameable because of Worgen, or boars because of Quillboars, or not making monkeys tameable because of Hozen, or Spiders because of Nerubians, Silithids because of Qiraji, etc etc. The only reason Proto-Drakes ever became Dragons was because of magic, because of Titan involvement.


Proto-drakes are beast, and therefore I thumb up their inclusion as a possibly tameable family. Cloud Serpents are also beasts. Arguing against them because of few cases of God Serpents talking would be like arguing against Pandaria tigers because of Xuen talking, or against Cranes because of Chi-Ji.


I'm all for them! More so Cloud Serpents, because those are just awesome!


Would want to make them special, though. Have something like the Direhorn book, rather than just being tameable. Plus exotic. At least Cloud Serpents, that is.

I would disagree considering normal cranes and tigers =/= spectral spirit beings. That's apples to oranges and honestly way too much of a stretch to make as an excuse to be for taming these creatures. Also the cloud serpents that do talk aren't gods at all. They're just sentient creatures, which, if I recall the quest texts of the Cloud Serpent dailies, all the cloud serpents are deemed sentient and are special to the Pandaren. So not only would we be taming a sentient creature(which is then enslavement), it would be screwing with the culture of the Pandaren. That, to me, is a no no. Proto Drakes, on the other hand, don't quite have that much against it other than no hunter has been able to tame one, only enslave it against its will. Since Blizz stated they're 'enslaved', not 'tamed', that signifies they have some sort of sentient intelligence to me, even if primal.

Also agree 100% with Azunara with this one. Thank you. You stated it better than I did, I think.

[Lisaara]

I'm asking my fiance on his two cents and he's got a hunter as well. This is what he said:

"I'd be okay with Proto drakes as they seem to have animal intelligence to me. However, cloud serpents would be a definite no. We have seen evidence of certain serpents that are stronger and intelligent. Any full draconic species has intelligence. Cloud Serpents are the embodiment of Chinese Lung Dragons, as such they have intelligence and sentience. Most mounts you have have to be broken in or you have to earn their respect in battle(aka loot drops). Cloud Serpents, the first ones you get, are befriended and raised by you."

[MaximumOverdrive]

I see it is:

A. Proto drakes/cloud serpents are friggen huge when you logically think about it. Shrinking them down will be annoying and it's gonna cause some issues for the animations, let's face it.

B. On the case of cloud serpents, they seem to be far more...revered than proto-drakes? Somehow I don't pandas will be cool with you taming one of the blue and naming it Scruffles. The whole learning how to ride Cloud Serpents chain boiled down to you making a huge sacred bond with your cloud serpent. Going out and taming it seems silly. (inb4 why not make a quest chain for hunters only to do that? Because there are 10 other classes in game).

C. Proto-drakes in every case as far as I can tell have been enslaved.

D. The inevitable (they're cool and special, thereby EXOTIC) and the resulting QQ storm that would entail would be the most obnoxious thing under the sun.

E. I just don't know. Yes, they're bestial. But it's like taming a gryphon or a hippogryph or a horse. There are some beasts in my mind that just shouldn't be tamable. Hunters shouldn't be able to tame everything under the sun, imho. There's a time and place for wishful thinking, and then there's "IT'S GOT A BEAST TAG GET IN MY STABLE". Proto-drakes/cloud serpents just fall too close to the "more mount than pet" side of things. And yes, I'm aware triceratops and devilsaurs and etc. etc are used as mounts. But there's also a bunch of feral groups of them not reliant on people. Every proto-drake/cloud-serpent/gryphon/it goes on and on seem to be closely related to people with minimal exceptions. Pet just doesn't seem right.

Pretty much my thoughts as well. I don't think dragons of any kind should be tamable, for these reasons. Hunters shouldn't be able to tame anything willy-nilly just chase they think it'd be cool. Sentient and intelligent beings like them should never be tamed. I know people bring up raptors cause they make jewelry...but there are several animals that make jewelry and use decoration, mostly birds. Raptors are smart...but they're not sentient. Protodrakes have always been enslaved, never tamed, cause dragons should never be tamed.

[Tulune]

Speaking of proto drakes and slightly off topic, but anyone in beta able to see their jump animation (for the mounts)? If you can use them as ground mounts, I am *dying* to see how goofy their jump animation is!

[Vephriel]

Speaking of proto drakes and slightly off topic, but anyone in beta able to see their jump animation (for the mounts)? If you can use them as ground mounts, I am *dying* to see how goofy their jump animation is!

In beta right now they don't have a jump animation really, they just flap their wings the same as though they were flying...only they don't stay in the air.