So with legion being all about demons....

[Valnaaros]

First, that isn't by my logic. You said that you've never seen them use it, even though in WoW they do. Second, those are rather poor example. The Warlocks mobs that use that were implemented back in Cata, which is when Warlocks did have Metamorphosis. Blizz was basing it off of current game mechanics. We don't know whether that Meta could even been considered the exact same thing. Yeah their WEAPON opens portals, not them. Their WEAPON uses lightning, not them. Would be like giving a Warrior a flamethrower and saying that he is using fire magic.

We don't know what will or will not carry over to the next xpac, so we can't say if they are once in an xpac or not. I am certain that some of the spells that the Artifacts give will carry over.

I'm not missing any point. Not all artificial creatures are the same. As in, an artificial Mana Wyrm is different than a Fel Hound. Mana Wyrms aren't inherently breed to seek carnage, chaos, and destruction. There are plenty of example of neutral or friendly Mana Wyrms - not to mention companion pets. For Fel Hounds, the only "friendly" ones are those enslaved.

They need fel or arcane, as I said. The "blue energy" in Black Temple is Arcane. True, but that is what they are bred to do. To drain magical energy. It doesn't mean that any magical energy will suit their needs - only Arcane and Fel. And yes, I know they can eat meat.

Mounts have never and will never been a good source for lore. Most of them are just there for fun or flavor. Take Fire Hawks, whom have a life span of 24 hours. The only ones that live longer are those that aren't true Fire Hawks, like Alysrazor, whom was originally a dragon.

Sure, it is possible to bind something, but that can also be temporary or broken. The Legion senses that the Fel Hunter is bound to you by just a trinket, and they unbind it and turn it again you.

Odyn showed up for the Class Mount questline, that is it (to my immediate recollection).

That is if you can bind it. And even then, the Legion is still a far better source of Fel energy than any Hunter can. The Legion utilizes the Fel directly. You're telling me a Hunter can do a better job providing it food than those whom are known for Fel magic?

Besides, the whole point of this discussion is that making Fel Hunters available to Locks is just a bad move. You claim Blizz has taken away a ton from Locks... so why would you take even more?

[Zulmalakhan]

the phoenix spells you said the fire mage uses.... also the wepon, hence my point.

I am curious to see how mobs in WoD and legion are implemented in cata, most shadow council related mobs in WoD use meta, a good portion of npc casters use meta or dark apotheosis, we have companions who use meta, heck we EVEN HAVE FUCKIN MURLOCKS IN 7.2 WHO USE META

Blizzard said they will only be for this expack to make you feel powerful, the look of the weapon will be able to be unlocked for transmog alter on this was said by Blizzard, now one can assume indeed that some cosmetic effects or traits that are crucial to the gamelay/feel of the class will carry on, so far BM hunters having 2 pets seems to be the only one falling under this category, and the stolen verdant spheres sadly....

so mounts are jokes, tameable bosses are jokes..... then if so many important features are just jokes thrown in for the heck of it, by all means why are we even having this discussion ? just throw the felhunter in there for fun and laughs >.>

The legion just unbinds your bound demon, and they didn't do this to warlocks demons because? They don't just infect your current pet with a fel-poisoned blow dart to turn them into a murderous fel-ravaged bloodthirsty beast like the deranged fel wolves on draenor or fel orcs becaaaaauuuuse? Plot device >.> Eredar warlocks are the first and foremost warlocks in the universe, they could outwit and outcast most warlocks on Azeroth, the legion has been known to corrupt other beings before very quickly a dart with demon blood in it should work just fine, they can just drop a super fel enhanced mana bomb on the capitals of the horde and alliance and just win this war easily, they can war in entire spaceships so just TP and carpet bomb the thing.... let us stick to what the legion actually has done, not what it could do or might do or is the sensible thing to do, this is a video game, we need to have excuses to do stuff, not real life logic or otherwise the game would literally be over since Wotlk, hit Fordring on the head and put the helmet on and rule the world.


My bad on metioning just Odyn, I meant Vrykul in general (BM quest is a good example)

The legion wouldn't feed its hounds fel on a regular basis to keep them hungry, same as you do in arenas with lions so they are vicious and savage and attack with deadly ferocity. Also, people who dabble with fel, don't really share the power. Yes I am saying a hunter can offer a constant supply of fel ridden meat considering the current circumstances (demon invasion and all that )

Yes, I have stopped playing my warlock, the class is visually the lamest caster spec now, most of its iconic look that has been with us since TBC is gone, WE DONT EVEN HAVE SOUL FIRE ANYMORE....... at this point I really can't say letting hunters have fel hunters would do any worse than what has already been done I might even reroll an orc hunter, go survival, get a staff get a hateful gladi hood, lighting rod shoulders, stormsong kilt and a dignified headmaster staff and pretend I'm my old warlock, all the survival hunter attacks have green tints to their animations anyway

although a fel devilsaur or a fel raptor/hydra/something instead of a felhunter would be nice too , come on, they gave us a fel wolf on draenor ( among like TENS OF OTHER WOLVES, jeez blizz enough on cats and wolves already ) this is THE fel-iest expansion yet, makes sense we should get something demonic

[Valnaaros]

Yes, going back to what I said in Cata, Metamorphosis was a Warlock ability then (DHs, as you know, weren't a playable class yet). And, further, as I said, we don't know if they're even the same thing as DH's. There has even been some talk that, within lore, it has been Retconned to never exist in the first place. Besides that, game mechanics don't always equal lore.

Do they use meta, or just have the horns and wings of Meta? If the latter, then that isn't them using Meta.

Blizz did say that, yes, but it isn't set in stone. Blizz released a blue post a couple weeks ago stating that they are still discussing what they'll do.

I never said all mounts are, but some are just there for fun. To be cool. Same for certain bosses. Thok was killed in SoO, not tamed. Allowing us to tame him is a cosmetic choice.

Because Warlocks have bound them more intricately than with a simple trinket. We don't know all the fine details of it.

Eredar weren't the first Warlocks, though they are very powerful. If they could outwit and outcast most Locks on Azeroth, than I'm surprised there are even orders like the Black Harvest still around. Surely, the Eredar would've just wiped them all out by now, no?
Demon blood can only do that in high amounts, and that will usually kill a person.

Look, it is becoming increasingly obvious that your understanding of the lore is at a minimal, which is fine. Not everyone has to be a lore buff. Could they just drop a fel bomb on the capitals? Sure. Could they warp in ships? Sure. Is it easy for them to do those things? No. The Legion can't just summon ships in. It takes a ton of resources to do that, and they have to go up against the things we have.

If Sargeras and those in charge of the Legion didn't spread the Fel, the Legion would shatter. The Legion isn't all bound to one individual's will. They do have a choice, and they are with the Legion due to two things: source of fel, and a means of destruction. A Fel Hunter, and any demon, would need pure Fel in order to prevent withdrawel. Just giving them fel-tainted meat isn't the same thing. Not nearly as strong.

Sure, I wouldn't mind Blizz giving us something fel-tainted. But not something that is outright a DEMON. That is the territory of Warlock's, not Hunters.

[PrimalTazza]

I think I remember something about the blood of lesser demons being poisonous or something, you need a far more powerful demon (like the two pit lords we've seen used in WoW) to really corrupt something in the style of orcs. I think the wolves in Tanaan were more infected by something like... radiation poisoning? Just proximity to all the fel suddenly dumped in the jungle drove them insane and vicious, but they weren't bound to the Legion like the orcs were.

This expansion does have a focus on the Legion, yes, but what we've been dealing with so far mostly revolves around rediscovering these long-abandoned isles. We've found new cultures and new creatures. Lots of elf stuff, and that's reflected in some of the new pets (new cats, mana sabers, and owls), there are oxen and re-imagined saber worgs from Stormheim, moose were added in Highmountain and many older pets got model updates in the same zone, and there are all these weird, never-before-seen beakosaurs too... we're discovering things in our sphere, the open, untamed wilds. Leave the demons to warlocks. We may get a CORRUPTED pet sometime (we have fel and ley basilisks already), but for this patch, we're offered a chance to display true mastery and gain the trust of wyverns, hippogryphs and gryphons, very intelligent creatures who are supposedly even able to understand and speak language.

I think befriending these powerful creatures is a far greater mark of our ability and power than trying to brute-force a fel hound.

[Zulmalakhan]

so now you are saying I don't understand the lore... are you trying to troll me? honestly?

do they use meta? or just the horns and wings and FORM OF META AND DARK APOTHEOSIS..... really? you have quite a number of posts, I took you for a serious person, are you seriously using philosophy phrases ?

being the 'lore buff' that you are you should so some re-reading maybe:

Warlocks : http://wow.gamepedia.com/Warlock clearly says, born of the eredar race.

warlocks bind felhunters after summoning and defeating it, like they do with other demons, the binding is not that hard or complex, all warlocks do it, also SIMPLE ? trinket or spell or item.... seriously what part of an automated mental domination item would be simple... wanna get technical :

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Quest:The ... Felhunter) the quest to get a felhunter, guess what the NPC says, it is difficult to TAME a felhunter... that is correct TAME. feel free to say that in this case he was saying it in a metaphorical way >.>

They literally summoned ships in during invasions and during the cinematic for 7.2 Kiljaeden literally just summoned a whole fleet out of nowhere, also all of Azeroth is on the broken shore, it won't be that hard to lead a force into a capital to bomb it, and who said it even has to be easy, this is a full scale win or lose invasion, Kil'jaeden isn't sparing any expense on this so hard or easy, it would make little difference, if it is doable then they should do it by real life logic.

Even the smallest bit of fell corrupts more re-reading: http://wow.gamepedia.com/Fel it even has pictures of a warlock transforming into a demon btw

so... you're again going on the 'That is warlocks territory' argument? like the discussion we just had for 2 pages ,about how that doesn't account to anything anymore and Blizzard has cannibalized the class for every bit of awesomeness it had and has walked all over that argument this whole expansion, is just what? chatting to pass the time? core hounds, fel core hounds are what? demons? some changed to beasts to be tameable ? hmmmmm runed demon dogs areeeeee???? what changed to beasts to be tameable now? hmmmmmm

[Valnaaros]

Just because they use appearances doesn't mean they actually are using them. Just something Blizz did.

Yes, it clearly says "first known" Warlocks, which is outdated according to the Chronicles. The Nathrezim and, to a lesser extent, Pit Lords were the first Warlocks. They didn't enslave demons at first (seeing as they were originally the only demons), but they were the first Locks.

That is an old Vanilla quest that, since, has become outdated. There were many things in Vanilla that have been rendered such or non-canon. But he could be saying it in a metaphorical sense.

Yes, and what is right next to those ships? The Tomb of Sargeras - a font of Fel power. And what is above it? The Fel Storm - a rift into the Twisting Nether. So of course he could easily just summon a fleet into the area, seeing as there is a bloody door right there! In the Pre-launch, there were no fleets flying around Westfall or Tanaris. Why? Because there was no easy way for them all to get there, and it takes a lot of resources, time, and power to summon something of that magnitude without there being an open door.

All of them are on the Broken Shore? So everyone just decided to leave Light's Hope, Maelstrom, Wandering Isle, etc to go to the Broken Shore? Even still, those are the strongest forces, but not every force. Not everyone individual of noteworthy power is at the Broken Shore.

It has to be of a substantial amount. You can't just get a drop a fel blood and, boom, you're instantly corrupted and mutated. Look at the orcs. They drank a large cup of fel blood and, the first time, turned green and grew a bit bigger. It wasn't another they drank even more that they started showing mutations. For the Orcs in the AU, just as Kilrogg, the blood Gul'dan gave them was enhanced immensely. It doesn't normally do that.

Yes, I have seen the picture, and we don't know what the Lock has done to transform. We don't know if he overloaded himself with fel energy, drank fel blood, was the center of a ritual - we don't know. The picture at the top is of a Forsaken using Drain Life - not transforming.

That is your opinion. As I said, you are upset with what Blizz did to Locks and so you are treating it as fact or everyone's opinion. Core Hounds, as I have already stated, are Elemental Beasts (like Gyroworms or Shale Spiders). The fel ones are just that, ones corrupted by fel. The runed dogs are just wolves or dogs that have been imbued with runes. Classification of mobs is often a game mechanics. There are fish in Neltharion's Lair that are classified as Humanoids. Does that mean they are? No.

[Sukurachi]

Children! play nice or mommy will send you each to your corner.

[Wain]

While I'm not going to lock this thread or anything, I suspect all opinions here have already been expressed and nobody is going to walk away satisfied. I think the problem is that the "Lore" is somewhat mutable, both sides seem to agree on that, and the arguments here rely a little on the weighting given to how important / immutable the Lore is that supports their position. That's going to result in disagreement that is never going to be resolved. At least until Blizzard says something concrete, and even then it could change in 6 months. I think recent announcements regarding changes in 7.2 speak to that

[Zulmalakhan]

To be honest Wain, you're right

[SpiritBinder]

So if we could tame demons, we could we add Demon hunters to the taming list when they use Metamorphosis, much like shapeshifted druids

[Zulmalakhan]

funny fact, for a brief time we could use enslave demon on metamorphosis warlocks

[SpiritBinder]

funny fact, for a brief time we could use enslave demon on metamorphosis warlocks

Say wahhht?!? I had no idea. Now if they let locks still use that on Metamorphed DH's, that would be a neat little boon for them in PvP

[PrimalTazza]

The good ol' days of casting Scare Beast on druids...