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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:21 pm 
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Okay so now I guess all that's left to determine is if using someone else's raid lockout but physically being the only person in the instance works. The person on Wowhead who did it after the hotfix seems to think so, but their info is a little unclear to me, so who even knows.


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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:26 pm 
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somnomania wrote:
Okay so now I guess all that's left to determine is if using someone else's raid lockout but physically being the only person in the instance works. The person on Wowhead who did it after the hotfix seems to think so, but their info is a little unclear to me, so who even knows.


I have a feeling it only spawns once (when you make the kill) and won't be there again after a soft reset. I'll confirm that in a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:41 pm 
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Bendak wrote:
somnomania wrote:
Okay so now I guess all that's left to determine is if using someone else's raid lockout but physically being the only person in the instance works. The person on Wowhead who did it after the hotfix seems to think so, but their info is a little unclear to me, so who even knows.


I have a feeling it only spawns once (when you make the kill) and won't be there again after a soft reset. I'll confirm that in a bit.


That seems to fit my lockout. The other hunter in the group got his but it hasn't showed up for me over 24 hours later.


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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:07 pm 
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I wish I had found out about this before the hotfix :( I can't get Hymdall down I can get him to about 50% and then he kills my pet. Then I can't get agro off me in any way and he just kills me. I've tried enough times that the money for repairs is getting silly. LOL I have 891 ilvl and I have the heal legendary pants. But no luck :(


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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:27 pm 
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prior to the "hotfix" I attempted Hymdall twice by myself. I died at the same spot as you, 50%. I intend, after the reset on Tuesday, to go back in and continue trying to get to Fenryr "The right way" even though I was lucky enough to get him unconventionally. Gonna Twitch/Beam stream the attempts. I hope to do it.

And one more thing. Camo is our invis potion. I went through all the mobs up to Hymdall and no one even smelled my Gnome. "You don't get Camo with BM". Right... so spec Marksman or Survival when you enter, then respec in a nook in front of the boss before you pull. Saves money on pots.


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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:06 am 
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Great, so I need to round up about 30 ilvl before I can get him. And I doubt that'll happen by next week when I'm not locked out anymore, because I don't raid and the only real upgrade in my future is the legendary gloves, which I'm one mythic away from being able to make. This entire thing is stupid and rude and I'm really angry with Blizzard right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:19 am 
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Why? For making a challenge to obtain a neat pet? There is nothing stupid or rude about that. Fenryr isn't going away, so it doesn't matter whether you are able to get him now or later on - he'll always be there to be tamed. Not everything has to be given freely or easily.


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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 am 
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There's a difference between ilvl and having the skill to solo two bosses that aren't meant to be soloed (Fenryr in mythic HoV) and being able to aim correctly with the right timing (Ban'thalos), kite successfully while causing totally solo damage to a certain point (Hutia/Gumi/Degu), tracking and judiciously using flare (the hunter-only rare MoP spawns), or completing an interesting questline that may or may not require assistance for certain parts (Gara). ilvl assumes that the player is caught up on end-game content enough that they're sufficiently geared, which usually happens through raiding and mythics these days. Raiding, at the difficulty that best provides upgrades, has to be done with a familiar group, which not everyone has, or with a pug of people sufficiently OP to carry others through it. I don't raid if I can help it. My computer doesn't like it, I don't like it, and in most cases I only see xpac raids long after the fact, once I'm far enough out in level that they're trivial to go through solo. There has never, to my knowledge, been a tameable mob (that's ONLY obtainable that way) made available to tame in current, on-level, challenging content, and certainly not locked away behind having to solo two mythic bosses. Yes, I can get him in a year or two when the next expansion is out and my ilvl is 1k or whatever it'll be by then, but I shouldn't HAVE to, because that's never been a stipulation for a cool pet. Gate cool pets behind knowing what abilities to use at the right time, and being able to track and find them successfully, but don't gate them behind pure numbers and ~hardcore skillz~. It's rude, and as I said before, I'm honestly sick of being forced into mythics and raids for things.


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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:43 am 
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There is skilled involved in getting through there. What, do you think I just walked in and one-shotted the two bosses? No, it still required skill for me to down them both. I could just go in guns blazing and down them within 20 secs or two. It required me to know their mechanics and, as a Hunter, how to deal with them. Ilvl does help, and it can't be done if your stats are too low. But even with a high Lvl, such as mine, you still have to know how to play your class and spec.

Just because they have never done a challenge like this, doesn't mean they can't. All of the challenges you have listed were firsts, and all had divided opinions. I remember people being upset about the three spirit porcupines and that it actually required you to know how to kite whilst dealing damage. There is never going to be a challenge that everyone likes, but that doesn't mean Blizz shouldn't put them in.

I am very glad Muffinus implemented this challenge. It made it much more rewarding to have to earn Fenryr rather than just clicking on some random object or casting a flare to make him visible. If this isn't your sort of challenge, then fine. I'm sure you aren't fond of the Challenge Skins either, which also requires a higher ilvl and, of course, skill. But that is your choice. But there is nothing rude about Blizz doing this and, further, it DOESN'T force you or anyone into doing them. You can get high ilvl gear from WQs. Not as quickly, mind you, but it is still an option. And as said many, many times, Fenryr isn't going anywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:51 am 
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I don't know, I just feel like there's a big difference, since this isn't even doable for me without a significant amount of end-game content first (that I have no interest in doing). Everything I get from WQs is at or below my current ilvl, so. TBF I have a major dislike of almost this entire expansion (as my friend who also plays WoW can tell you, I dislike it and if you have a few hours and some earplugs I'll tell you all about why), and this was just the final straw on a big pile of things that have really annoyed me about Legion.


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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:55 am 
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No one's discounting the skill required to solo Mythic HoV and tame Fenryr - but the fact remains that you're probably not going to be able to do it, no matter how skilled, in LFD/LFR gear. It's going to take the kind of gear you can only get in coordinated dungeons/raiding, and that's where the problem is for some people. You talk about WQ gear - but raid gear/tier/trinkets is/are far better itemized than random 880 Titanforged from a WQ.

For myself, I have a different problem. I solo'd the stupid thing on Mythic and the boss still didn't spawn. So I wasted about 400g in repairs and a bunch of pots because I lack any of the healing legendaries, so ended up going up against Fenryr six or seven times before I got him down. And he still didn't spawn for me. If Blizzard is going to force us to solo a Mythic level dungeon for a tame, the least they could do is make certain that it is 100% bug free.


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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:13 am 
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Man that's so cool. I went and got him ^__^


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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:38 am 
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I wish we could've been informed of the hotfix, so I wouldn't have wasted half a day trying to get him yesterday. I would prefer to get him the real way, though, I'm just going to need better gear for that, and I'm really lacking in the luck section when it comes to gear. World bosses just won't drop anything for me, the occasional mythic won't drop anything, nothing ever upgrades, I still don't have a second legendary. I'd like to get him asap, but.. I just don't have the gear to get Fenryr himself down, and I don't have the luck to get the gear.

That said, I hate how gated everything is this expansion. Either you have to wait forever for it (spectral moose mount), or you have to have the gear for it. I'm also pretty tired of Legion because of it, but eh.. I don't really want to stop playing either. Just going to have to figure out where to get a second legendary finally (or where my best odds for one are, rather) and hope I get better gear otherwise too. Because I don't raid or anything either, I play for fun. Which I'm kind of lacking lately.. I don't find Broken Shore particularly fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:45 am 
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Tirelth wrote:
If Blizzard is going to force us to solo a Mythic level dungeon for a tame, the least they could do is make certain that it is 100% bug free.

I mostly agree, but I don't think this was intended to actually be live yet, especially judging by how the past couple days since it was discovered have gone. I suspect it was still in the works when the patch went live, and it wasn't intended to be doable (in any form) until maybe 7.2.5, at which point the people who were working on it as their pet project (lol, pun) would have had more time to make sure everything worked the way they wanted it to. Much like the "challenge" weapons, it would have been extremely difficult to start but as you got better gear (or, you know, more levels) it would have become easier. I don't think the "challenge" weapons will last into next expansion, but Fenryr definitely would, and taming him at 115/120 would probably be exactly the same difficulty as Chimaeron is now.

I'm not saying you're wrong to feel bad about the way this has gone, I'm a bit conflicted about it myself, but like... I dunno. It's not like someone from blizzard was like "hey hunters check out HoV if you're good wink wonk ;)"—it was bugged and found early, I think.

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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:34 am 
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@Kich, are you me? That's exactly how I feel about Legion. I can't think of an expansion that I enjoyed less than this one... wait, maybe... nope, I had way more fun in BC, even. And there hasn't been an expansion that I had more dread/disgust for, either. But! It's not a bad expansion, and I'm glad so many people are enjoying it so much. It's just that I'm not.


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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:47 am 
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@Kich They did say there was a good chance for a hotfix, and it makes sense that this would happen pretty soon after the bug was discovered. I'm sorry that you're having some bug luck, but it is also apparent that your lack of gear and legendaries is due to you limiting yourself.

If all that you're doing is the occassional mythic and maybe some Emissaries and World Bosses, your chances of getting Legendaries plummets. The more activities you do (many, many things have a chance to give Legendaries), the greater your odds.

@Xella Possible, but then they wouldn't have implemented it if it wasn't ready. If it was meant for 7.2.5, then they would have implemented it then. This is just a case of a bug they didn't know about getting through. You can't make something 100% bug-free until you know the bug even exists.


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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:28 am 
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I have a lot of problems with the way Fenryr was done, and this is coming from someone who only wants him casually.

First of all, I am thrilled that they are thinking outside the box on pets. It is amazing how many different ways they are approaching them, and I am appreciative. I love the idea of pets requiring a real challenge to tame. However calling Fenryr a challenge tame is a total misnomer.

We've had people here say that at a certain ilvl (which seems to be around 895 to 905?) that getting Fenryr is easy. Therefore the "challenge" is not in soloing the dungeon itself, but in reaching the ilvl required to make it possible. Thats my problem with this whole thing.
While I understand and am totally fine with there being special rewards for the dedicated raiding community, I do not believe hunter pets need to be involved in that in any way, shape, or form.

The ilvl that is required is one that only raiders (maybe pvpers but I dont know how their gear works) can reliably reach. This challenge is primarily throughput with little execution. You can skip all the trash, and as long as you avoid a couple mechanics, it boils down to your ilvl, which is nothing more than math. This isn't a challenge, its a math problem with a bit of encounter execution mixed in. It becomes easy when your math is high enough. Lets not kid ourselves here: its not a challenge tame, its a math tame.

While pets are ultimately "cosmetic", it just feels terrible to me to restrict them this way. Not only is it a poor example of what a challenge tame could truly be, it is restrictive in all the wrong ways. Why should taming a pet be restricted to raiders (those who can reliably expect to meet the required ilvl)? What on earth does taming a pet have to do with being unable to commit to timeframes required for organized content?

Another concern is them raising dungeon difficulty as the xpac continue. I think they only raise in the major patches (like 7.2), but it means that the goalpost of ilvl required will continue to move. If non-raiders are not able to realistically achieve the ilvl before 7.3 (and so far I'm not seeing a reliable way to do that), then the goal post will move again, making it even further away. I hope that they don't make this a Legion only thing as well. I can't imagine they would, but they are making some interesting decisions this xpac, so I don't rule anything out.

I know I don't personally represent anyone but myself, but I'm 886 and when I got to Fenryr phase 2, the thing that gated me was not execution, but throughput (which again is nothing more than math). This pet might as well be an achievement: "Reach ilvl 900, Fenryr has been added to your stable!" Why not require raid level ilvl to do some pet battles while we're at it?

Challenging tames, things that are more interesting than "camp/land and tame" are an amazing opportunity and again I am so grateful for what they have done. However in my opinion, this is just a poor example of what a challenging tame could be. I always think that a lower entry requirement with a higher execution requirement is a much better approach, a sort of "easy to learn difficult to master" idea. The idea of reaching a certain ilvl and then EZ-mode through the dungeon is a silly thing to restrict a hunter pet behind, and a just a really poor method of presenting a "challenge" tame. Again, I say this with full appreciation of their efforts in making pets more than just "land and tame." There are tons of ways to make a tame challenging without requiring raider ilvls.

And before I get accused, this isn't me "whining" because I figure know I will eventually be able to get it once I meet the math part of this supposed "challenge." Its a commentary on the design decision, and I'm thinking about the hunters who won't be able to reach the math required for this and therefore won't have a realistic opportunity to even try the challenge. That will always be unacceptable to me. Separation of hunter pets and raiding ilvl requirements!


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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:33 am 
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@Quiv thank you, this is all that I was trying to say earlier, but I was super tired and words weren't my friend. Yeah, it's the fact that you essentially have to do at least normal difficulty raids consistently to be able to even consider getting this tame. There's never been a tame locked off like that; the only other more recent mythic/raid tame I can think of is Thok, and he was only made tameable two expansions after the fact, when it was trivial for people to go in solo and grab him.

I also love a lot of the challenge tames, especially the tracking ones in Pandaria (I have three of the four Portent colors because I could, even though I don't use any of them), but this one is just locked behind numbers.


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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:31 pm 
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somnomania wrote:
@Kich, are you me? That's exactly how I feel about Legion. I can't think of an expansion that I enjoyed less than this one... wait, maybe... nope, I had way more fun in BC, even. And there hasn't been an expansion that I had more dread/disgust for, either. But! It's not a bad expansion, and I'm glad so many people are enjoying it so much. It's just that I'm not.

This is my least favorite expansion so far, too. Because of all the gating, and how exhausting everything gets after a while. Hunter tames have always been a major jam for me, so for them to be gated behind raider ilvl's like this, it just really ruins a lot for me. I'm a casual player / roleplayer, I do not like raiding, so since I play for fun, I'm not going to raid. I just don't find it fun.

Valnaaros wrote:
@Kich They did say there was a good chance for a hotfix, and it makes sense that this would happen pretty soon after the bug was discovered. I'm sorry that you're having some bug luck, but it is also apparent that your lack of gear and legendaries is due to you limiting yourself.

If all that you're doing is the occassional mythic and maybe some Emissaries and World Bosses, your chances of getting Legendaries plummets. The more activities you do (many, many things have a chance to give Legendaries), the greater your odds.

Yeah, they said they'd hotfix, I just wish they would've said when they hotfixed. Since now I ended up wasting a lot of time for nothing, and not only my time, but my friends' as well, with asking them to help me clear mythic HoV.

Also, I wouldn't exactly say I'm limiting myself - I just don't like being forced to do what I don't enjoy doing, such as raiding and pvp. :p Like I said above, I play for fun, so I like to do things that I find fun, such as roleplaying, pet battles, taming hunter pets.. all kinds of pokemon things. Other than that, though, I did go do some LFR quick, and the first boss dropped me a legendary, thankfully, so there's that. I got the healing pants. Now my ilvl's 892, so I'm trying to figure out where and how to get a few ilvl's more before I attempt Fenryr again. I don't like pugs and my amount of friends is rather limited, so I'll have to see when and if I could go run some mythics. But I'll work something out, trying to grind some nethershards for now.

@Quiv, I agree with you wholeheartedly. People who have the gear can get Fenryr rather easily, it seems, for them it's mostly just a simple tank 'n spank. So I wouldn't exactly call it a challenge at that point. So it does, indeed, come down to maths, not skill. An easy reward for raiders, but what about us casuals?


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 Post subject: Re: Fenryr can be tamed!
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:32 pm 
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I have a problem with this taming. I have joined in solo Halls of valor Mythic (not plus), only me. I've defeated hymdall and fenryr. I left the istance and waited 30 minutes, maybe 1 hour. When im turn back, adds are all missed and Fenryr neutral pet tamable doesn't appear. What's wrong??


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