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Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:54 pm 
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Journeyman Hunter
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Has Blizzard ever come out and said why certain beasts aren't tameable? Or even hinted?

If it can attack and it has a death animation, what's the challenge?

I haven't been around long enough to know what happened with the hydras was it? They were originally not tamable and then after some time were?

What did players do, or have done in the past that eventually convinced the devs to make a type or family of beasts finally tameable?

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Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:46 pm 
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In terms of animations, some either do not have enough animations, or the animations aren't very detailed. For example, the mouths of the MoP pythons do not open when they strike. The Grand Gryphons and Wyverns do not have enough, if any, attack animations.

Other reasons are lore-based. Dragons, Proto-Drakes (to a lesser extent), etc. are sentient. Some beasts, like the Dread Ravens or the Kunchong, are revered by the Arakkoa and Mantid respectively, and would not be happy with us taming these beasts (the mount and pet versions aren't considered canon).

I don't think there has really been anything in particular that has convinced Blizz to make something tamable. Sometimes, they just decided to make a certain beast into its own family or add it to an existing one. Sometimes they'll base it off of popular request, but the decision is still largely theirs in the end.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:55 pm 
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Hydras almost developed a cult following. It might have been largely due to the Petopia community, but so many of us wanted them for so long that we were just rallying for them at every opportunity and I think they finally caved. :)

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:51 am 
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I'm just super hoping for the pink/violet panthara. *crosses her fingers*

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:24 am 
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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:10 pm 
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I kinda wonder about the attack animation argument. Look at caterpillars and marsuuls. I know it's what they may say, but it seems like an artificial distinction.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:33 pm 
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Valnaaros wrote:
Other reasons are lore-based. Dragons, Proto-Drakes (to a lesser extent), etc. are sentient. Some beasts, like the Dread Ravens or the Kunchong, are revered by the Arakkoa and Mantid respectively, and would not be happy with us taming these beasts (the mount and pet versions aren't considered canon).


Sorry but I personally just don't buy this reasoning anymore. Blizzard too many times over has gone against their lore to make things happen when it's suited them and /or the player base. Demons have been turned to beast. An aberration turned into a tamable beast. Spirit beasts.
And I've said it before & I'll say it again. EVERY creature has a form of sentience!
The definition of sentient:
Quote:
sen·tient
adjective
able to perceive or feel things

In a video game ANYTHING can be given the sentient label if the game creator deems it to be so. Some can have it taken away. Some could say the mechanicals we're allowed to tame has a form of sentience.
I think it's just if Blizzard wants it they'll find some way to make it happen.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:16 pm 
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Teigan wrote:
I kinda wonder about the attack animation argument. Look at caterpillars and marsuuls. I know it's what they may say, but it seems like an artificial distinction.


True, and I agree. I'm just stating what has been said before.

@Zedxrgal And that is Blizz's choice. It is their lore. If they choose to go against it, they can. But as of right now, the lore reasons that I stated still stand, unless Blizz changes them. Though, Blizz has been making a great effort of late to solidify the lore via the Chronicles.

Aberrations, Demons, Humanoids, etc. are a mechanic of the game, in large part. There are things classified as certain groups that, truly, it doesn't make sense for them to be in that group.

Sentience in WoW has a seperate definition from the RL one. In WoW, it refers to anything that has an intelligence lvl equivalent to a Human being.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:50 pm 
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zedxrgal wrote:
Valnaaros wrote:
Other reasons are lore-based. Dragons, Proto-Drakes (to a lesser extent), etc. are sentient. Some beasts, like the Dread Ravens or the Kunchong, are revered by the Arakkoa and Mantid respectively, and would not be happy with us taming these beasts (the mount and pet versions aren't considered canon).


Sorry but I personally just don't buy this reasoning anymore. Blizzard too many times over has gone against their lore to make things happen when it's suited them and /or the player base. Demons have been turned to beast. An aberration turned into a tamable beast. Spirit beasts.
And I've said it before & I'll say it again. EVERY creature has a form of sentience!
The definition of sentient:
Quote:
sen·tient
adjective
able to perceive or feel things

In a video game ANYTHING can be given the sentient label if the game creator deems it to be so. Some can have it taken away. Some could say the mechanicals we're allowed to tame has a form of sentience.
I think it's just if Blizzard wants it they'll find some way to make it happen.


Actually, the difference you're thinking of isn't sentience but sapience. You're right, sentience means ability to feel and perceive things around them. Sapience is the ability to reason or possess logical thought. Dragons are sentient and sapient creatures, ergo untamable, but a wolf is sentient and not necessarily sapient.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:04 pm 
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There you go, Azunara. Thank you.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:40 pm 
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So how many cookies would it take for a pink and purple panthara? >_>

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:16 pm 
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I'm surprised they didn't implement it, along with the red variant.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:11 pm 
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Azunara & Valnaaros - I am quite aware what sapient is but THANK YOU ( :) ) for the definition if others may not have been aware. Many consider wyverns (wind riders) to be sapient because they are intelligent enough to speak a language and are considered "allies" to the orcs. Yet Blizzard found a way to make them tamable. As I already said "I think it's just if Blizzard wants it they'll find some way to make it happen." which is why I no longer buy in the lore, sapient /sentient reasoning for what isn't tamable. :)

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:13 pm 
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Wait.. Wind riders can speak? Where did I miss this? :O

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:29 pm 
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Actually, a few things in regards to Wyverns. First off, there is only one reference to them speaking, and it is by a Tauren Druid. We aren't exactly sure if it truly spoke or if the Druid was able to communicate with him via his own abilities. Similar to how the Kaldorei Druid in Suramar was able to speak with the leaders of various animal packs and herds, even though they couldn't speak.

Second, not all Wyvern are allies to Orcs. Wyvern have packs, and not every pack is aligned with the Orcs/Horde. There are groups that are hostile to the Horde and to Orcs.

Of course, Wyvern are very intelligent. But assuming the Tauren Druid was only capable of speaking to the Wyvern via his own abilities as a Druid, then Wyvern would be considered similar to Hippogryphs and Gryphons. Very intelligent and sentient, but not sapient.

Blizz can do whatever they want, since it is their game and universe. But the lore reasons are there, and you can't just ignore them just because "you don't buy it". I agree that Blizz has changed their lore in the past, but that doesn't mean thar all lore can or will be changed. And as I said, Blizz has been putting forth more work to not break the lore and to solidify it via the Chronicles.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:50 pm 
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Raptors have a culture of sorts. Consider the Barrens quests concerning them and the fact that they make and wear adornments.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:02 pm 
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Teigan wrote:
Raptors have a culture of sorts. Consider the Barrens quests concerning them and the fact that they make and wear adornments.


It is debated whether Raptors are actually sapient/sentient, or if they are just very intelligent.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:32 pm 
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Teigan wrote:
I kinda wonder about the attack animation argument. Look at caterpillars and marsuuls. I know it's what they may say, but it seems like an artificial distinction.


Agreed, very much so.

We have heard directly from blues telling us the reason why X or Y is untamable is due to their animation (They don't like the models animation aesthetics as a pet [Old Hydras, Frogs], They they can't actually bite/no jaw [Pythons, Legion Fox] They are missing key animations [Grand gryphon/wyvern, etc.]

They really lost me however in MOP when it came to any kind of sincerity or sense in regards to "can tames" and "can't tames". Like you mentioned, the caterpillars. These pets are a farce when it comes to animations, texture and design as a Hunter pet. Yes, people can love them, I'm not debating that, but much like that 4th child, they were an accident. They were simply meant as battle pets, flagged them incorrectly on the beta, but then they actually made them available as a worm, and as was much the same with porcupines.

Again, Marsuuls, were also not planned to be tamable, but they were unanimously loved by all once data mined, and blizzard decided to horse shoe them into a rodent family. They could do this however mainly because they had the full suite of animations (due to them being on a cat rig), but they still don't have any animated bite, which they have used as prior reasoning.

At this point there is not rhyme or reason to any of it, and trying to find any will just hurt ones head. It's the conclusion to what ever they have the time to do/fix (the animation team), or be cheeky and get away with using (design/development team) and what they tell us as a reason to such (HR/PR team), all of which are VERY different areas. That and all of these areas have turned over different staff members from expansion to expansion, changing directions, ideas and concepts of the topic of what qualifies tamablilty :lol:


On Topic. .. As I mentioned, something have made it over the line over the years regarding persuasion

Hydras ~ These beauties really only made it when they created an addition new model to the family in WoD, that fleshed it out and gave them a versions they liked better as a tamable model. This then gave them the green light to add in the older models without having to go back on their prior "no" to taming them.

Grimtotem Wolf ~ This was found, told we could keep, them removed, then reimplemented as a Spiritbeast years later. This was a case of a kind and cheeky developer reintroducing it back, knowing it would be well recived as many wanted after it.

As mentioned, the Porcupines and the Caterpillars remained tamable due to those using the MoP beta, expressing how much they liked them and thus they remained tamable. And as with the Marsuuls too. Note however that these were not a revision, but more of an inclusion when 1st implemented. They still came about by public championing however.

There is no real trick to persuading them per say, but we know for a fact that they keep an eye on these forums when it comes to pet related wishes.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:42 pm 
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The python argument has always confused me when they are used as LARGE hostile mobs in multiple places. I mean, we're fighting against them, what's the difference between that and having them fight for us? :lol:

(ugh, don't even get me started on caterpillars, their textures are so low res it's awful...I'd be forgiving if they let us tame the cute demon worms on argus though)

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:53 pm 
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what is and is not considered sentient has always been an...interesting hangup for me. As others have pointed out Raptors seem to make their own adornments and I recall some of the chimeras and a few of the wind serpents actually speaking back in the day. Evalcharr in particular wold send out periodic zone-wide taunts when he would spawn. Don't know if he still does that.
Pretty sure I came across a few other strange acceptations over the years as well although none of them stood out as much.

I also find it kind of weird you can skin yetis even though they are humanoids. I recall one in Northrend telling me off in perfect English when i tricked him during a quest. Could skin him, but not Worgens. The world is full of weird grey areas like that I suppose. Always interesting to find.

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