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 Post subject: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:40 am 
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Curiosity.

For those who are against a pet transmog system, how would you feel if you were able to name every pet you tamed, and when you applied the skin to one of the default pets you had, it applied the name as well?

Would this solve your problem? After all, you'd be able to have one of every skin in game, named. You could form bonds with unlikely pets by mixing things up once and a while and using a skin you don't normally use.


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 Post subject: Re: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:06 am 
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No, I still don't want that. That is essentially the mini pet journal applied to hunter stables. I recall a time I actually cared about and remembered the minipets I had. Now I have a faceless mass of nearly a thousand. It takes me a long time to manage them, even with an addon. It's a chore, a hassle, a management game. They're nothing but useful abilities that I sometimes bother to name. I don't want that to be my stables.

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 Post subject: Re: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:41 am 
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Teigan wrote:
No, I still don't want that. That is essentially the mini pet journal applied to hunter stables. I recall a time I actually cared about and remembered the minipets I had. Now I have a faceless mass of nearly a thousand. It takes me a long time to manage them, even with an addon. It's a chore, a hassle, a management game. They're nothing but useful abilities that I sometimes bother to name. I don't want that to be my stables.


Then what's the harm of not taming all the ones you don't want, and keeping YOUR stables short?

Why are you trying to hinder people who do want a lot of options?


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 Post subject: Re: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:29 am 
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I think at this point it should be beyond question there is a real problem with the stable system that needs to be addressed. However is another UI that allows us to "learn" 1034 skins (with more to come with patches and expansions) the right solution? Even as a game system, that doesn't seem tenable, but with hunter pets you have added non-technical complication (such as bonding with pets) that can't be ignored. I can't pretend to know the answer, but I am hard pressed to think another collection UI is the right one.

I think coming to a good solution is harder than it seems on the surface. There are valid hunter pet playstyles that vary greatly, and whatever system they choose needs to work for everyone. That isn't to say everyone will be happy, thats impossible, but it doesn't need to be a system that invalidates playstyles because playstyles are not the problem. And while I appreciate any effort they put into it, I have a hard time hoping for a good solution. If pet families/abilities/specs are still so jacked up (IMO), I don't hold much hope for a workable stable system.

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 Post subject: Re: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:36 am 
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I've been gone from the forums for a bit due to irl hectic-ness, but I thought I'd throw my thoughts on this topic while I've got a spare moment :)

Personally, short answer would be no. Slightly longer answer would be please no. Simply applying the name as well wouldn't take away the feeling that my pet has become an appearance, even if that appearance now has a label on it. While I've got no true answer for how they could sort the stables short of increase slots, which is only a temporary fix, I just don't like the transmog system. I'm a sentimental sap who would feel like I've lost the meaning behind my pets if they simply become skins with names. They aren't the actual pet and so I'd be missing something. There must be a better option for the pet stables other than this transmog idea, I just couldn't tell you what it is.

My playstyle may very well be different to yours and so you and I want and expect different things from a universal system. As such, is simply adding a name going to help for me? Not really. For someone else? Quite possibly, it just depends.

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 Post subject: Re: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:30 pm 
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not for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:19 pm 
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I agree with what has been said. Just because you can name it doesn't mean that it is still the pet that you tamed. They will be reduced to nothing more than skins, much like how xmogs and battle pets currently are. You say that to not want a pet xmog system hinders those that want a lot of options, but I say that to have one is a hinderance to those that prefer to bond with a few pets instead of amassing a giant collection. Seconding what Quiv said, there is no perfect answer/solution that will make everyone happy and I am rather doubtful that Blizz will come up with something that will work out for the best.


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 Post subject: Re: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:28 pm 
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The only mog pet system I would like would just add an effect to an already tamed pet like adding an enchant visual to a weapon, flaming wolf, void/oily hydra, fel cat. :D They could have bosses drop items that teach you it or taming a rare with that effect would let you learn it, fel wolf tamed = fel flame pet effect, that kind of thing. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:04 pm 
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Myzou wrote:
Teigan wrote:
No, I still don't want that. That is essentially the mini pet journal applied to hunter stables. I recall a time I actually cared about and remembered the minipets I had. Now I have a faceless mass of nearly a thousand. It takes me a long time to manage them, even with an addon. It's a chore, a hassle, a management game. They're nothing but useful abilities that I sometimes bother to name. I don't want that to be my stables.


Then what's the harm of not taming all the ones you don't want, and keeping YOUR stables short?

Why are you trying to hinder people who do want a lot of options?


Why are you trying to hinder people who want to have pets instead of skins? I don't want to turn this into a flame war, but that sentiment of yours does go both ways, so keep that in mind.

Rawr wrote:
The only mog pet system I would like would just add an effect to an already tamed pet like adding an enchant visual to a weapon, flaming wolf, void/oily hydra, fel cat. :D They could have bosses drop items that teach you it or taming a rare with that effect would let you learn it, fel wolf tamed = fel flame pet effect, that kind of thing. :mrgreen:


Yes. That. And the chain collar from the tiger back in MoP.

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 Post subject: Re: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:33 pm 
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A pet tmog system or a similar system to the pet battle tab would be 100% fine. Think of it this way; your battle pets are NOT devalued now that there's almost 1000 unique pets, your friends and family aren't devalued because you also have boring people like your boss or co-worker on your list, so the same is absolutely true for hunter pets. You wanted that skin for that pet, rather than had any form of necessity to collect; you formed some kind of bond with THAT pet. With THOSE pets. It doesn't matter how many you end up having, but rather how well you actually remember your pets' names.

Now why would a system with a search menu and better UI be good? Let's say I've got a dog named Butt on the fifth tab of my stable, and they add a search menu. I type bu, which is two button presses, and my pet is right there. I click four times, and Butt is visible off on the side. Now, let's assume they add more stable slots, and they add 3 pages. That's five pets per page, but eight pages total. Butt is off on the final tab again, and I'm still in tab one. Seven arrows, or two letters? Let's say there's an ungodly 20 stable pages for whatever masochistic reason, and I'm STILL on page one. Nineteen pages to click through, or just two letters? Butt is still my dog, and he's still memorable because of his name. I'm all about Butt, and Butt is all about me. He's still the dog that I kept despite picking a really stupid name for, and it's a memorable part of my Hunter in this respect. Even if he's 1000+ slots down, the call list that battle pets and mounts get would ease my searching for my lovable Butt. That search menu shortens my time to find the pet I want, giving me more time to grab him and get back to the slaughter. It's fine as it is right now, but with so many pets coming out and many folks having multiple hunters just to have every look they want (collectors, madmen, or just an enthusiast), more stable slots are almost necessary. It's absolutely time to change over to the new systems, just like we shouldn't be playing on Windows Vista anymore.

A battle pet or mount styled interface with more slots would be an absolute godsend due to simplification without reduction. The current stable UI is already pretty old, and they've all but retired most older UIs for newer ones. Though the game has had quite a few garbage changes, this would be an absolute quality of life change. I doubt they'd do something that convenient, but the fact of the matter is that a better UI mixed with stable slots is a 100% upgrade, no matter how you look at it. Just my two cents as an unbiased supporter of the best change for insignificant things like pets and toys.

EDIT: whoops, made a wall of text. Here's a TL:DR if anyone would prefer that;

A battle pet system would be an objective upgrade as it would give many needed features, such as extra stable slots and a search menu without the need of addons, and it'd make the old UI match the newer and better ones that we have with the collections. Our pets aren't devalued by number, but only negligence.

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 Post subject: Re: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:16 pm 
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Except that our pets are reduced to nothing more than skins. The actual pet is gone. It's just like with normal xmogs. You take the appearance of the sword and use it. The actually sword itself is gone. There are some xmogs that have multiple items that grant the same appearance. If you get 2+ of such, they are then condensed into a general xmog. This would be exactly how it is with a pet, but worse. You don't get attached to a stat stick in your bags. You do get attached to a pet that you spent the time and effort to tame, and created many memories with. This would be destroyed by a pet xmog system.


I do think that there should be some limit to how many pets we can have. 1000+ is just way too much and, like what has been said regarding battle pets, they just become a faceless mass. Something needs to be done, I agree, but I don't think that a pet xmog system or a battle pet inspired system is the way to go.


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 Post subject: Re: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:00 am 
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I'm sorry if people feel limited by not having 1000+ pets, but perhaps there needs to be a limit. Things in a story are written a certain way in order to tell a story. WoW is a story and the story of a character in WoW is written in part in the mechanics, the core of how that character plays and what they can do. The story of the hunter is written with a powerful bond between hunter and pet. If you dilute that too far, there is no longer that story. I for one value the story of the hunter, as it has been written up to this point. It is why I play a hunter and have for 9 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:20 am 
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I remember when we could only have 3 pets. .I felt you connected more with your pets back then. You wouldn't own 50 cats /Dogs either. .. A Hunter pet should feel special. A transmorg system would take that away imo. You can always make more hunters so you can have all the pets you want.

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 Post subject: Re: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:16 am 
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Couldn't they just add a pet transmog system that you have to opt into by paying like 1,000-10,000 gold?

And if you don't, then you have the 5 pages of stable slots. But once you do, you are given 5 pets that can have any appearance you tame applied to them.

That way people who do want actual pets that they can bond to are free to do so, but hunters that want to collect a lot of pets and switch them out a bunch can opt into it.


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 Post subject: Re: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:29 am 
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I rather doubt that Blizz would go that route. If they were to implement a pet xmog system, it would probably be enforced on everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Myzou wrote:
Couldn't they just add a pet transmog system that you have to opt into by paying like 1,000-10,000 gold?

And if you don't, then you have the 5 pages of stable slots. But once you do, you are given 5 pets that can have any appearance you tame applied to them.

That way people who do want actual pets that they can bond to are free to do so, but hunters that want to collect a lot of pets and switch them out a bunch can opt into it.


if it could be a choice and not forced upon all then I think it be ok.. but then again I dont play anymore so :lol: :lol: but I always felt that more options to customize your own game-play whilst not forcing it on others would be a good idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:36 pm 
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Myzou wrote:
Couldn't they just add a pet transmog system that you have to opt into by paying like 1,000-10,000 gold?

And if you don't, then you have the 5 pages of stable slots. But once you do, you are given 5 pets that can have any appearance you tame applied to them.

That way people who do want actual pets that they can bond to are free to do so, but hunters that want to collect a lot of pets and switch them out a bunch can opt into it.


That's like the flight/no flight argument of "if you think flight is bad for the game, just don't fly"

I really feel like you and I are playing an entirely different game if the sentence "But once you do, you are given 5 pets that can have any appearance you tame applied to them" sounds appealing, not horrifying.

Also, we both know Blizz doesn't work that way. If they skin our pets for display, they'll be skinning all our pets. Not just yours.

Oh, and you didn't address how idea of having 1000 pet skins and a scaffolding to drape them over and call a pet would impact the class fantasy of the beast mastery hunter? How do you feel this impacts the story of the hunter, as Blizzard has written it? That is still important.

That, I think, is what the heart of the debate is.

What is a hunter to you? Is a hunter a shelf to set collectible plushies on? Or is a hunter that dwarf lad and his bear from the original WoW cinematic?

We remember that, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRW0ryCHdT4

And full cinematic, if you want https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYK_Gqyf48Y

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(yes, I changed the meme. It seemed sexist after I looked at it more carefully and bears are better anyway)


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Last edited by Teigan on Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:31 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:06 pm 
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That dwarf hunter is what inspired me to make my first hunter way back in Vanilla. I wanted to bond with a certain pet the same way that the dwarf did with his bear. It is obvious that Blizz's intended fantasy was for Hunters to have a pet (or two, or three) that they are particularly attached to. You don't see that Dwarf climbing up the mountain with 500+ animals following him.


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 Post subject: Re: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:31 pm 
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Yeah I always felt that 50 was a bit too much .. I get the need to collect.. I am a collector too, but in other games and for other things... Hunter pets to me has always been like Real pets... A few to bond with but too many and you loose the bond..

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 Post subject: Re: Pet Transmog System?
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:49 pm 
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Teigan wrote:
Myzou wrote:
Couldn't they just add a pet transmog system that you have to opt into by paying like 1,000-10,000 gold?

And if you don't, then you have the 5 pages of stable slots. But once you do, you are given 5 pets that can have any appearance you tame applied to them.

That way people who do want actual pets that they can bond to are free to do so, but hunters that want to collect a lot of pets and switch them out a bunch can opt into it.


That's like the flight/no flight argument of "if you think flight is bad for the game, just don't fly"

I really feel like you and I are playing an entirely different game if the sentence "But once you do, you are given 5 pets that can have any appearance you tame applied to them" sounds appealing, not horrifying.

Also, we both know Blizz doesn't work that way. If they skin our pets for display, they'll be skinning all our pets. Not just yours.

Oh, and you didn't address how idea of having 1000 pet skins and a scaffolding to drape them over and call a pet would impact the class fantasy of the beast mastery hunter? How do you feel this impacts the story of the hunter, as Blizzard has written it? That is still important.

That, I think, is what the heart of the debate is.

What is a hunter to you? Is a hunter a shelf to set collectible plushies on? Or is a hunter that dwarf lad and his bear from the original WoW cinematic?

We remember that, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRW0ryCHdT4

And full cinematic, if you want https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYK_Gqyf48Y

Image

(yes, I changed the meme. It seemed sexist after I looked at it more carefully and bears are better anyway)


You realize you just said that the *only* solution is your personal belief about pets having meaning, right?

Not everyone sees pets as things they grow attachments to. Some people like me only go after rare and hard to get pets as a badge of huntering. We shouldn't be limited simply because -you- and others like you think pets *should* have a personal connection to you.

And when presented with a compromise where you can keep what you want, you say it's not good enough, and imply it's because you'd feel inclined to use the system.

And no, having 1000 pets would not impact the BM fantasy at all. If anything, it'd make it better to me. My hunter having 1000+ pets to call from makes beast master make a ton more sense, as then it feels like she truly is a master of beasts.


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