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Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Journeyman Hunter
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Hunters who played in vanilla will remember that some pets had different attack speeds before Blizzard normalized it. Well, that is back in 8.0. No one really noticed because damage is normalized. Attack speed turns out to be mostly a flavor thing, with one exception.

The standard attack speed is 2.0, or one attack every 2 seconds (found on like 98% of pets), and we've found pets ranging from 0.5 to 4.0. The biggest outliers are Deth'tilac (0.5) and Chimaeron (4.0).

Again, the damage is the same between these pets. Deth'tilac attacks 8 times faster than Chimaeron, but Chimaeron hits 8 times harder than Deth'tilac. The reason Deth'tilac is an exception to this is Frenzy stacks bring him down to the hard cap of 0.25 attack speed, which makes him lose some damage for BM (but not necessarily for SV and MM). All other pets seem to deal the same DPS, or are "slow" enough to not hit this cap.

Any pets that had unique speeds from vanilla that still exist (i.e. Broken Tooth) seem to retain those original speeds and we've been finding tons of post-Vanilla pets with weird speeds. No idea if this is a bug or intended, but either way it doesn't seem to be hurting anything... especially having gone unnoticed for so long. If this does turn out to be intended and/or left alone, it might be worth building up some kind of list of all the unique attack speeds.

I have a post about it here with all the details including sims and some of the pets found so far, as well as how to find pet attack speeds quickly yourself:

http://eyesofthebeast.com/2018/08/broke ... nce-again/

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Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:45 pm 
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The Insane
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That's really interesting. Pretty cool you folks noticed it! It's definitely something we would want to track and I've been wondering if there's an easy way of datamining it. Probably not :(

Even if it seems harmless for now, I wonder if the devs will normalize it again anyway. Because, who knows what future mechanic it may end up interacting with? But for now we may as well catalog it. I'll set up something in the database.

Thanks for bringing it to our attention :)

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Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:20 pm 
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Journeyman Hunter
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I wondered about the datamining too. At least for now you don't actually need to tame a pet to see the speed, just target it and use the macro. Before the macro we were doing dummy tests which was tedious to say the least.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:55 pm 
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Artisan Hunter
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I'm using
/run print(tostring(UnitName("mouseover")).. " " .. UnitAttackSpeed("mouseover"))
and a hotkey. When you use it on your pet, it will be adjusted for your haste.

There have been procs that happen when your pet crits, but the ones I found were on the "basic" attacks, not auto-attacks. I think fast attack is mostly psychological, it feels fun as the hunter, and it might be intimidating in casual pvp (especially if its a spider). As long as you don't hit the attack speed cap. There's a survival talent that hastens pet attack speed in AoE, to be mindful of.

I've been checking out Silithid, since they're fairly useful in pvp, and I've found some more non-2s.
Hive'Zara Sandstalker 0.8
Silithid Drone 1.5
Silithid Spitfire 1.5
Vekniss Solder 1.667
Buru the Gorger 2.5
Vem 2.5
Lord Kri 2.5
Gorishi Worker 2.8

I haven't gotten all the rares yet. I'm missing: Ainamiss the Hive Queen, Haarka the Ravenous, Krkk'kx

I've checked other beasts as I went by. Ironhide Devilsaur and Tyrant Devilsaur were both 2.8, if you want bigger numbers with a devilsaur. Ouro Scarab was the fastest I found, at 1, it's a beetle that spawns midfight. There's more, but I thought those were the most interesting.


Last edited by Xota on Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:26 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:05 pm 
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If i'm not mistaken, the Vek'niss Soldier actually has an aura that increases it's attack speed

This was my full list, most of which is in Bendak's blog

Code:
Deth'tilac, 0.5
Markaru, 0.75
Hive'Zara Sandstalker(AQ20), 0.8
Broken Tooth, 1
Beetle(Ouro spawn), 1
Marshwalker, 1
Coldmist Stalker, 1
Mana Feeder, 1
Vile Bat(RFK), 1
Halycon, 1.1
Grovestalker Lynx, 1.2
Windfeather Chick, 1.2
Ayamiss, 1.2
Leviathan, 1.2
Emperor/Gilded Tern, 1.25
Gutripper, 1.4
Fenryr, 1.5
Bloodmaul Direwolf, 1.5
Thok, 1.5
Ghaz'an, 1.6
Bloodmaul Battle Worg, 1.7
Pridelands Stalker, 1.8
Serpentshrine Sporebat, 1.8
Spirit Beasts, 2
Ursius, 2.4
White Devilsaur, 2.4
Adolescent Direhorn, 2.4
Buru, 2.5
Young Forest Bear, 2.5
Ironhide Devilsaur, 2.8
Barrens Kodo, 3
Decrepid Clefthoof, 3
Coilfang Strider, 3
Landquake Kodo, 3
Chimaeron, 4


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Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:19 pm 
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Artisan Hunter
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Cerbi wrote:
If i'm not mistaken, the Vek'niss Soldier actually has an aura that increases it's attack speed

I forgot to be on the lookout for that. But I expect that's the case.

I've found a couple of more slowbies.
Ironfur Greatbull 2.5
Elder Great Turtle 3
I'm marking down everything I see that's not 2, but I'm keeping my eye out for anything 0.8 - 1.2.

Most/all tarantulas and black widows at 2. I didn't get Chatter, Chitter, Rekk'tilac, or Sri'skulk, recluse hatchling


Last edited by Xota on Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:11 am 
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Illustrious Master Hunter
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The streaker beetle from Nax is a bit faster than most at 1 and Solix is a bit slow at 3 :lol: :mrgreen:

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Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:28 am 
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The white frostsabers (pure white) apparently have 1.5 when tamed. Lord Lakmaeran (long untameable) for those interested has a default 2.0.

I'm going through my pets list now. Most have normal 2.0, and that includes loads of spirit beasts, wolves, rares, etc.

White Frostsaber - 1.5
Ramparts (I think?) armored black wolf - 1.5
Ghostly white Northrend worg from that MoP (Kun-Lai summon) quest - 1.5
Displaced Chimera (from the Darkshore phased quests) - 1.3 (weird...)

I apologize for incorrect names but I honestly can't remember the names of some or where I tamed them; they should be easy enough to find.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:52 am 
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Master Hunter
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Couldn't this still affect functionality even if overall damage is normalized? I.e. if an enemy player or boss moves out of range, the pet with more damage per hit will have done more DPS than one with a faster attack speed that is now unable to reach the target.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:41 pm 
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Equeon wrote:
Couldn't this still affect functionality even if overall damage is normalized? I.e. if an enemy player or boss moves out of range, the pet with more damage per hit will have done more DPS than one with a faster attack speed that is now unable to reach the target.


On the other hand, if the boss moves and the slow hitter misses it's hit entirely, its a bigger loss. It's a wash no matter what way we look at this


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Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:15 pm 
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This is so great-! I know objectively it doesn't change anything but I was just lamenting the loss of pet attack speed and the individuality it gave pets, so it's really cool to see it back in the game-- thank you for the work you guys have done to bring us this info.

For fun, I ran the script against a few of my faithful friends, and here's a couple more for your list-

OG Grimtotem Spirit Guide wolf is fast at 1.0!

Solix (orange trick-tame spider from Firelands (already mentioned above) is 3.0

The green-runed Plaguehound Runt --only the runts!-- (from EPL) is 1.5

Shadowclaw (rare black riding tiger model from Darkshore) is 1.5

Swarming Guardian (head-down black shiny cat from Ulduar) is 1.5

Angry Hound (from Scarlet Halls 5-man) is 1.5 and Starving Hound (from the same) is 1.0


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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:33 am 
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Grand Master Hunter
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Bashkarr wrote:
OG Grimtotem Spirit Guide wolf is fast at 1.0!


Huzzah! Glad to see my old pupper is effected by this boost ;D

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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:51 am 
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As an old vanilla WoW player and long-time BM Hunter, I tamed Broken Tooth as soon as I hit level 39 and ran with him as my primary pet for years (named Sarge).

The reason for wanting his 1.0 attack speed then was that each attack had the potential to interrupt spell casting in an opponent, and since he hit twice as often as most pets, he had significantly higher rates of spell interrupts. As I have only recently returned to the game (I left after Cataclysm), is this no longer the case?

Side note: why did they take away the Pet Pane (a tab on the Character Pane)? Beast Lore doesn't list much of use, and it seems silly that you have to use a macro now to see attack speed. I understand that many Pet Talent choices have been eliminated (such as having a specific pet for Fire Resistance-needed fights), and pets have largely been normalized, such that the Pet Pane is perhaps not as useful as it once was, but I still find it irritating to not have the pet data readily available.

On the other hand, I do NOT miss having to periodically feed my pet to keep him/her "happy", and I especially do NOT miss having to level up every new pet and keep all pets in my stable leveled up. I still remember taming Humar the Pridelord back when he was a unique-skinned rare (another pet peeve of mine, when Blizzard turns a unique pet into a common model later) when he was level 15, and then spending days and days taking him up to level 60.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:31 pm 
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When I try the macro string you posted it comes back as "nil 0"


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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:01 pm 
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checking my own set of pets:
frostsaber pride watcher: 1.5
bloodfalcon: 1.6
shattered hand warhound: 1.5
black water strider (I don't remember which one it actually is, likely either the deep strider or the pond skipper) : 1
riplash: 1.5


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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:54 am 
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Journeyman Hunter
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So Ayamiss the wasp boss in AQ is 1.2, but, the green wasp that spawns as an add is 1.0. Tricky getting that add though, as it flies rather high. I missed it before it despawned after taming the boss. :-(


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Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:14 am 
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What an awesome find! I really hope they don't remove this.. Probably will because fun detected ™ !


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Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:23 am 
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I do love seeing chimaeron hit like a truck! Even though it's the same dps.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:33 am 
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Artisan Hunter
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Shameless plug, I posted an addon that includes attack speed in the tooltip for wild (and pet) beasts. Now you don't need a macro, you just enable and mouseover.
https://wow.curseforge.com/projects/stablehand


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Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:18 pm 
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Xota wrote:
Shameless plug, I posted an addon that includes attack speed in the tooltip for wild (and pet) beasts. Now you don't need a macro, you just enable and mouseover.
https://wow.curseforge.com/projects/stablehand


This is great! thanks


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