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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:00 am 
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Malazee's Hunter Pet Spreadsheets are now available online for your downloading and editing purposes here, via Google Docs! To download the sheets for yourself, simply navigate to File\Download As\Excel and edit away or just save it to have a copy on your own drive!

Devoted Petopian, Anyia, has developed an addon called RaidChecklist based on the spreadsheets we've been working on in this thread! The mod will be able to display an in-game list of buffs, debuffs, and (eventually) CC abilities, that are currently being provided by players and pets in your raid or group, as well as what classes/specs/pets would be able to fill any holes in your composition. It's a very powerful and useful mod that I highly recommend! Thank you, Anyia! <3

For more specific hunter advice and extra info on pets, check out this Marksman Thread on the Elitist Jerks forums.

If you're more of an auditory person, Zeilla8 and Kalliope put the flowchart to voice and video on youtube! Watch it here and make sure to check out Zeilla's other hunter vlogs as well!

Pet Usage Flowchart
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Please take this flowchart with a grain of salt! I based the order on what I'd consider to be a pretty standard 10/25 man raid comp that has an equal distribution of melee/ranged and physical/spell damage, and then slightly favoring buffs that affect hunters. But since nothing is perfect and the ideal composition almost never occurs, please remember to use your best judgment!

Pet Ability Spreadsheet
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Raid Buffs, Debuffs and Abilities
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Cataclysm Crowd Control
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This spreadsheet is too huge to be contained in a single image, so I have added it to the Hunter Pet Spreadsheets on GoogleDocs.


Attachments:
File comment: Malazee's Logical Pet Usage Flowchart (for raiding)
CataPetFlowchart.jpg [220.65 KiB]
Not downloaded yet
File comment: Cataclysm Raid Buffs, Debuffs and Abilities
CataRaidBuffs.jpg [379.75 KiB]
Not downloaded yet
File comment: Cataclysm Pet Ability Spreadsheet
CataPetAbilities.jpg [344.46 KiB]
Not downloaded yet

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-- Malazee's Hunter Pet Spreadsheets --



Last edited by Malazee on Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:40 pm, edited 47 times in total.
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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:29 am 
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Nice job, I really like the flow chart. However, I still feel bummed that my pets in raids aren't going to be what I want, but what everyone else tells me I need. >.< I guess it can't be helped.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:39 am 
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Hey that's very cool! Thanks for posting this.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:11 am 
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Very nice. I vote for a sticky. :)

Rhy, I know what you mean, but at the same time I'd argue that we'd often (not always) end up bringing the pet that we know would do the job best anyway. I mean, part of the awesomeness of Blizz giving us all this utility is that we'll be able to be useful beyond just bringing dps. Sure, there are times I'm in the mood to run with a particular pet, but as long as I know what my pets can do, I also know what pets are better for the job (for example I'd never bring a tenacity to a heroic unless it's not 80 yet, and definitely never to a raid, know what I mean?). Even at that, unless you have a really demanding/strict RL, I'd wager that you'd be able to argue one or the other in most cases. I really am not that worried about that aspect of the changes.

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Last edited by Sarayana on Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:15 am 
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Stickied. :D

Thanks so much for putting these together, they're so helpful! I'm a really visual person, so charts like this are fantastic. :hug:

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:22 am 
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Vephriel wrote:
Stickied. :D

Thanks so much for putting these together, they're so helpful! I'm a really visual person, so charts like this are fantastic. :hug:


*blush* thankies!

I'm a very visual person, too! Reading through giant text lists of pet buffs and equivalent raid buffs was making my head swim, so I had to organize the information in a way that my brain could comprehend. That is, at least until MMO-champ fully updates their Raid Composition Tool with all the pet buffs (it looks like they're starting to, but it's not complete yet).

Sarayana wrote:
Even at that, unless you have a really demanding/strict RL, I'd wager that you'd be able to argue one or the other in most cases. I really am not that worried about that aspect of the changes.


Oh definitely! I certainly don't mean to imply that "OMG 8% spell damage is WAY more important than 30% bleed damage, so you should always bring wind serpents before you bring hyenas!!" for example. It's all completely subjective and based first on what your raid comp is (if you have no casters at all, then who cares about spell damage?), second on how strict/serious your raid is (who cares about having all the buffs if you're doing silly content), and third on your preference (a buff is a buff is a buff, so bring whatever pet you want).

I based the flowchart on what I'd consider to be a pretty standard 10/25 man raid comp that has an equal distribution of melee/ranged and physical/spell damage, and then slightly favoring buffs that affect hunters... but then again, this never happens all the time. So use your best judgment, everyone!

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:35 am 
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Malazee wrote:
I certainly don't mean to imply that "OMG 8% spell damage is WAY more important than 30% bleed damage, so you should always bring wind serpents before you bring hyenas!!" for example. It's all completely subjective

I know, I was directing my comment more to Rhy's statement about not being able to freely choose your raid pet. I definitely see this as a guide for the hunter, not the RL.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:39 am 
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Glad to see a sticky come out of that thread.

I find it interesting that Chimera/Worm got damaging abilities as their exotic. I'd imagine that the bonus to damage against single targets would be really low, otherwise they'd be at a rather large advantage.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:43 am 
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Sarayana wrote:
I know, I was directing my comment more to Rhy's statement about not being able to freely choose your raid pet. I definitely see this as a guide for the hunter, not the RL.


I agree completely!

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:46 pm 
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Rhyela wrote:
Nice job, I really like the flow chart. However, I still feel bummed that my pets in raids aren't going to be what I want, but what everyone else tells me I need. >.< I guess it can't be helped.


On the positive side there are lots of options to choose from in terms of pet families and skins for each buff so there is still some options for what you bring even if the group needs a buff :)


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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:59 pm 
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To be honest, I'm not real sure why I'm frustrated. Maybe because I've been sick for a week with an intestinal virus, or because work is aggravating today, or hormones, or what.

I just can't shake the feeling that someone, somewhere, is going to try to tell us all that one pet is the best. I guess I'm also a little annoyed that spiders only get a root, nothing's changing. I'd rather Naphthali had a useful buff or debuff like other families so that I could justify bringing her, but a root is useless in raids and most dungeons no matter how you slice it. Or at least, right now anyway. Maybe in Cataclysm with CC being more important, it'll be different.

I'm a little frustrated that boars are still tenacity, but that's because they're one of my favorite pet families, it's more of a personal opinion than anything. I suppose on the bright side, wind serpents have a neat debuff and they're also one of my favorites.

I guess what I want is to be able to bring the pet I want to bring, because I like it. But with all this buff/debuff stuff, I'm going to be concerned about bringing the best for the situation (a la wolf right now). I suppose I ought to just not care and bring my spider anyway, and to heck with what other people think.

Blah, I'm rambling. I think I'm just in a bad mood, so I should probably stay away from forums for a while. X_x I'm sorry. :(

Edit: I guess I'll also try to hold off on my miasmic outlook until ALL the skills for all families have been released. Maybe I'll grab a carrion bird again if their skill looks okay.
:? :( :| :oops:

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:01 pm 
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If it makes you feel any better, Rhy... the Shale Spiders still don't have their normal ability. And if they continue the trend of making one exotic and one normal pet for each buff, I'd guess their ability would be the 8% magic damage along with wind serpents and dragonhawks.

Shale spiders are kinda like spiders... Image

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:03 pm 
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Fantastic work, as always!

Just a small addition to the chart: the monkey ability is blind.

The link for Bad Manner. :D The tooltip makes me giggle.

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Kalliope's Pantheon of Pets
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Thanks to LupisDarkmoon/Moonlost/Ket Shi/Karin/Thorka/Neilaren for the avatars and Vephriel (x3) & Methuselah/Pengupuff/Karin/TheDoomCookie (x2) & LupisDarkmoon/Thorka/TygerDarkstorm & LupisDarkmoon for the signatures!



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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:34 pm 
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Could you possible add the new tree bonuses, I think I remember them changing them and I cant locate the numbers.

Edit.. RUDE of me... that's amazing and thank you so much!

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:45 pm 
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How do you use MMO-Champion's "Raid Composition Tool"? How do you get it to show "pet buffs"? Thank you!

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:47 pm 
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Protego wrote:
How do you use MMO-Champion's "Raid Composition Tool"? How do you get it to show "pet buffs"? Thank you!


My guess is they haven't fixed it yet for cata.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:22 pm 
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Voodoou wrote:
Could you possible add the new tree bonuses, I think I remember them changing them and I cant locate the numbers.

Edit.. RUDE of me... that's amazing and thank you so much!


If you could elaborate on what you mean by tree bonuses, I'd probably be happy to add it. I'm not sure I'm familiar with what you're talking about.
Thanks, BTW :D

Oh... and I'll fix the monkey business (*snicker*) in the next update too. Thanks for letting me know!

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:42 pm 
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Thanks! :D *giggles* Seriously, even without the PvP applications, I would need to tame a monkey just for that ability. xD

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Thanks to LupisDarkmoon/Moonlost/Ket Shi/Karin/Thorka/Neilaren for the avatars and Vephriel (x3) & Methuselah/Pengupuff/Karin/TheDoomCookie (x2) & LupisDarkmoon/Thorka/TygerDarkstorm & LupisDarkmoon for the signatures!



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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:23 pm 
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Malazee wrote:
Voodoou wrote:
Could you possible add the new tree bonuses, I think I remember them changing them and I cant locate the numbers.

Edit.. RUDE of me... that's amazing and thank you so much!


If you could elaborate on what you mean by tree bonuses, I'd probably be happy to add it. I'm not sure I'm familiar with what you're talking about.
Thanks, BTW :D

Oh... and I'll fix the monkey business (*snicker*) in the next update too. Thanks for letting me know!


How each pet gets a set %age to armor, HP, damage?... I was curious because it would be interesting to see if the Chimera being a Cunning pet would end up top damage over a Ferocity. So I was trying to see what the current(PTR/beta) numbers are to see if the Ferocity pets as they stand w/o a damage ability would do less damage than Chimeras.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:57 pm 
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Okies, I fixed monkeys. I've also been working on a new chart. I found the flowchart wasn't good enough to satisfy my thirst for knowledge of raid buffs, so I made this more complete list:

(see first post, image was moved there)

It shows pretty much all of the (important) buffs and debuffs relevant to raiding, whether a hunter pet can do it or not. It shows us the buffs that are left for future pets to cover, and also tells us all the classes (and their abilities) that cover some of our pet buffs. It's a little easier to look at this chart and ask the Shaman to drop Strength of Earth Totem rather than looking at your raid to see if you have a shaman and wondering if it will cover the Strength/Agility buff.

I'm not 100% certain that I got all the abilities, but the ones I have up there I'm positive are correct and current for Cataclysm (not sure about patch 4.0, tho). I was told Destro warlocks have 5% spell haste, but for the life of me I couldn't find it on Wowhead. ><

I want to compile another similar list that shows all the non-buff abilities our pets can do, but tbh I'm exhausted from doing all the research for the above graphic, and there are a LOT of different spells that fall under the following categories. Here's what I've got so far:

Disarm
  • Bird of Prey: Snatch
  • Scorpid: Clench
  • Prot Warrior: Disarm
  • Rogue: Dismantle
  • Shadow Priest: Psychic Horror

Root
  • Spider: Web
  • Beetle: Venom Web Spray
  • Silithid: Venom Web Spray
  • Druid: Entangling Roots

Silence/Interrupt
  • Moth: Serenity Dust
  • Nether Ray: Nether Shock
  • Gorilla: Pummel
  • DPS Warrior: Pummel
  • Prot Warrior: Shield Bash, Shockwave
  • Rogue: Kick
  • Bear Druid: Bash, Feral Charge
  • Cat Druid: Maim
  • Marksman Hunter: Silencing Shot
  • Mage: Counterspell
  • Warlock (Felhunter): Spell Lock
  • Shadow Priest: Silence
  • Shaman: Wind Shear
  • Death Knight: Strangulate, Mind Freeze

Stun
  • Crab: Pin
  • Bat: Sonic Blast
  • Wasp: Sting
  • Prot Warrior: Concussion Blow
  • Paladin: Hammer of Justice, Repentance
  • Warlock (Succubus): Seduction

Disorient
  • Monkey: Bad Manner
  • Rogue: Blind
  • Mage: Dragon's Breath
  • Warlock: Conflagrate

Knockback
  • Rhino: Horn Toss
  • Balance Druid: Typhoon
  • Elemental Shaman: Thunderstorm
  • Warlock (Succubus): Whiplash

I would absolutely LOVE some feedback/edits/corrections/additions on the chart and list above. Especially additions.

Voodoou wrote:
Malazee wrote:
Voodoou wrote:
Could you possible add the new tree bonuses, I think I remember them changing them and I cant locate the numbers.

Edit.. RUDE of me... that's amazing and thank you so much!


If you could elaborate on what you mean by tree bonuses, I'd probably be happy to add it. I'm not sure I'm familiar with what you're talking about.
Thanks, BTW :D


How each pet gets a set %age to armor, HP, damage?... I was curious because it would be interesting to see if the Chimera being a Cunning pet would end up top damage over a Ferocity. So I was trying to see what the current(PTR/beta) numbers are to see if the Ferocity pets as they stand w/o a damage ability would do less damage than Chimeras.


If you're talking about the buffs pets gain from individual talents in each tree, I think that might be a little beyond the scope of what I'm doing here. Talent specs are so subjective depending on what you're doing, pve vs pvp, utility vs pure dps, etc. Unless I've misunderstood what you mean.

I'm not really looking to compare pets here based on their damage. I just wanted a more visual way to organize the pets based on the buffs they will bring. I did label the pets with their talent trees, though, so if you want to imagine how much damage the pets will bring according to their tree and weight it against the buffs other pets bring, perhaps my charts will help you with that.

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Last edited by Malazee on Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:09 am, edited 3 times in total.

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