To wolf or not to wolf, that is the question

[FuzzyDolly]

I know everyone says you "need" a wolf to raid, but I really don't want a wolf. EVERY hunter has a wolf. What's the point of being as BM hunter if I use a wolf? I might as well respec. I have a devilsaur, but am tired of complaints about not being able to see around him in raids. My question is... what else would you suggest? I like very unique or rare ooking pets. I tamed a green chimera (while I hunt for Numaroc) and also Trachea the 2 headed zebra owl from Bone Wastes. I know the piddly dps is because of them only being 75, and I'm hoping it will get better. I'm kind of so so on these guys. What about a ravager or sillithid? How is their dps in raids? Worm maybe? Rhino? Green emerald owl?

[Saturo]

You can bring any pet you wan into a raid, as long as they are Ferocity. If you want a unique pet, Wasps have a good spell, and they look good. Tallstriders are also fairly unusual, and their spell is AWESOME!

If you don't want a wolf, don't have a wolf. Just tell your raid that the DPS difference is almost nonexisting.

If that gets you kicked, they are the kind of people you don't want to play with. Playing your class fun>min-max.

[Akyo]

You can bring any pet you wan into a raid, as long as they are Ferocity.

i highly disaggree. Many cunning pets do almost as great in pve and many would be preffered in pvp.
Serpents have an extra dot, sporebats are great for the many group pulls you find in heroics and raid. windserpents, silithids, chimeras are also a few that does quite well. Also wolverine bite is an awsome skill, though it seem to bug quite often leaving many hunters to turn it of these days.
But yes. if the guild wont allow you to bring anything else than cats and wolves...then they are way to serious about this game.

i dont see the point beeing BM if your only gonna stick to the classic raid pets(unless your a maxer, but for me thats no fun), then you should just stick to survival or MM. For me BM is about getting the best out of your pet. ANNY pet. (though still.. tenacity pets should not be brought into a raid, reg heroics are fine though)

But if it is a Ferocity pet you want i can highly recomend Carrion birds and Moths.
they both are overlooked and both have great skills. Carrion birds reduces AP of one target. while moths have a self buff on a 1 min cd, but with your BM talents it should be down to a...80-70sec cd? it boosts its ap with 10% for 15 sec so its rather nice. specialy if its cast togheter with bestial wrath.
I use a moth myself and can also say thet the swoop ability (charge for the non flying beasts) is great fun. it knocks things over.
Seeing the big skelletons in ICC fall over cause of a little moth named Cuddlebug is highly amusing.

[Rhyela]

I agree with everything above. I used to love wolves back in the day when everyone had a cat. But now I see them EVERYWHERE. I just refuse to have one, because I'm Beast Mastery dang it! I have access to all these neat pets, and I'm not getting a wolf because of some cookie-cutter build. I do, however, feel that you should try to get a ferocity pet because they have so many damage-buffing talents for you and your pet (well, and even for your party/raid). Cunning would be next if you just simply hate every ferocity pet, and tenacity would be the last thing I pick up. I know worms have that awesome armor debuff, but I feel you could get more out of a ferocity pet. Just my two cents.

I have a carrion bird that I had been using up until I got my devilsaur yesterday, and I personally like them. I rarely ever get into a group with a warrior, so the attack power debuff is really nice for the tank. (Akyo, wanted to mention that the AP debuff hits all targets in range, just like demoralizing shout, but the actual damage only hits the bird's target) You could also try something like a hyena, I hardly ever see those and the ones from Scarlet Monastery are a nice red color. Their racial isn't the best for a raid, but it does damage nonetheless so it's not completely useless. Moths could be another fun option that I personally almost never see. Their racial boosts their AP by 10% and heals them over time, on a one-minute cooldown (42 seconds with Longevity). Aspatha the Broodmother is a solid white moth, the only one of her kind if I'm not mistaken, so it's unique.

Basically, there are PLENTY of options out there and I don't feel it's necessary to have a wolf. I'm willing to bet the damage difference between a wolf and something like a cat is relatively low, certainly not enough to get booted from a raid for having something else. Get what you like and if someone gives you crap, then it probably wouldn't be a fun group to raid with to begin with.

[Akyo]

Akyo, wanted to mention that the AP debuff hits all targets in range, just like demoralizing shout, but the actual damage only hits the bird's target

it stil does? i thought that got nerfed to only single target! o: anyway. thats awsome XD even better reason to get one.

But yes. you shouldnt need to have a wolf or cat, but haveing atleast one pet from each tree sometimes prove very helpfull. a tanking pet for your solo play, where it simply goes faster to round up groups or you have an elite to deal with. coughchillmawcaugh.

A ferocity pet for when you feel you have to max out your dps for some reason. and a cunning for everything you want it too.

sadly my main has no cunning. it sucks cause i want so many pets. and most i want are cunning. but i just cant let annyone go.
so...my horde alt got mostly cunning pets! XD and i love em all. all good for different purposes. Bat for a stun and huge annoying wings which i just addore, windserpent cause i just like em and the lightning breath is actually quite sweet, good for single target, also have a short cd.
My sporebat is fun looking and great for the loads of group pulls in heroics. though she also have a "classic" pet. a kitty. though i grabed a blood red lynx so it wouldnt be just another spotted cat in the crowd. (where did the panters and reg lions go btw?)
the last beeing a blue moth to match the blue troll.

[Dweezill]

I have personally tested all the ferocity and cunning pets on test dummies and found that i was egtting the most dps from..... wasps. wasps can do amazing dps if.... you gace very high crit rating. I think the reason for this is because, with 3 points of longevity, Sting goes off every 4.2 seconds. It's really hard to keep up enough focus if you don't have a high crit rating and at least one point in Go For The Throat. If you do have at least 40% crit and one point in Go For The throat, I would say try a wasp. the really do great amounts of damage. they are my pet of choice for raiding.

Dweez.

[Valinai]

To be competitive DPS wise, I got a wolf to go with my MM spec. The "number crunchers" out there recommend wolves and I wanted to see what kind of boost I'd get. My gear is still sub-par (I'm still using several pieces under 200) so I wanted to boost things that I could control easily.

The Furious Howl is definitely a bonus. I was in your shoes, though. I didn't really want a wolf because the models in the game didn't appeal to me (we're not including Skoll in this convo - he appeals, but he functions as a Spirit Beast, not a wolf!) and I had used a wolf when I was in the early 20s and leveling. It's a completely different ballgame when you're 80 of course.

I suggest tame one and run it through some instances. If you don't like it, abandon it. I hate abandoning pets, but just think of releasing him/her back to the wilds to frolic

Before I got my wolf, I did use a Frostsaber Pride Watcher. I liked the Prowl and DoT abilities he had.

But if you're talking exotics, try a Devilsaur. I had a blast running through dungeons with mine. They're huge pets (because they're HUGE when you tame!) and they look sweet under Bestial Wrath. Also, I loved it when he did his idle animation and just ROARED his little heart out. Especially when the little gnome was standing right there. It made me giggle.

Worms, Rhinos...those are tanking pets. If you're planning on off-tanking (bless you) then those would be helpful. But if you're filling the DPS (pewpewpew) role, you probably want a Ferocity and perhaps Cunning pet. I can't testify to Cunning, never really tried one. Most of my stable is filled with Ferocity. And one Tenacity - my turtle!

[FuzzyDolly]

So earlier I tamed the green chimera from Outland. I named it Bruce. Then I traded it in on the elite zebra striped bird in Bone Wastes. Then at work today I was thinking of that cool black wasp in Zanger. I mean I can always keep using Gondria too. I think Blizz needs to redo the spirit pets to have the base attack of the animal PLUS spirit strike. That way Gondria and Loque would have rake, Skoll would have furious howl, and Arcturis would have whatever it is bears have. The devilsaur does the most dps by far, but it's so big I keep getting told it's distracting. I was sent a link on FB by a guildie to an article about extreme BM soloing. The one article basically said that raiding BM without a wolf, is like a warrior tanking with no pants. It's doable, but not up to the toon's potential. I really wish Blizz would even out the trees. Oh well... Thanks for the advice. Looking to read some more.

[Rhyela]

I was sent a link on FB by a guildie to an article about extreme BM soloing. The one article basically said that raiding BM without a wolf, is like a warrior tanking with no pants. It's doable, but not up to the toon's potential.

People obsessed with min/max are going to say that no matter what you do, unless you have every BiS available and have the ultimate cookie cutter spec. No, BM may not do as much damage as the other specs, but in days like this where many classes are doing 8k or 9k dps, I don't think 500 or even 1000 will really make THAT big a difference. It should be about fun! It would be different if you just stood there and auto-shot the whole time, that's not to your toon's potential (or any class' potential, for that matter). But if you're honestly getting the gear you should be getting and playing your spec with skill, no one should look down on you for using spec A over spec B, or for a wolf over a raptor. For crying out loud, where's the fun if you are EXACTLY like everyone else, just for the sake of a slightly higher DPS meter? I thought he used a pretty cruddy analogy, to be honest. Having no pants is a little more extreme than not using a pet that's slightly better than others.

[rubybeam]

i use a raptor for raiding if that helps

[Anansi]

The main issue is what sort of raiding you are doing. If you are in progression-oriented raiding where every drop of DPS matters, you do need a Wolf as Furious Howl is the single-best Hunter pet DPS-boosting ability and the DPS it provides is significantly more than nearly non-existant and it is more than a Cat's Rake by a fair margin. 320 AP for 20 seconds every 40 seconds is nothing to sneeze at, if this ability were on a piece of gear you'd trip over yourself to get such a thing.

However, if your raiding is not progression-oriented, then you have a bit more freedom of choice and do not "need" a Wolf. Also as BM, the Devilsaur will give you a bit more DPS than the Wolf but you are of course trading overall DPS in raiding as BM (exceptions based on skill and gear apply of course).
If your raid is fine with you raiding as BM, they should be fine with you using your Devilsaur insofar as DPS goes. Size is a valid concern however, so Wolf is your next best DPS choice. But Wasps, Cats, Raptors and Moths are solid as well.

For more unique looks, Edrawr is right about the white Moth, there's just the one and it is fantastic looking. There are many cat models to choose from, and the more common ones are actually the rarer pets as everyone tries for the "rare" skins. Same with Raptors. For Wasps, if your raid is unhappy about the size of your Devilsaur, avoid the blue/black Wasp, it's huge, but is the best-looking tamable Wasp. The light blue ones are nice too. The ones from Zangarmarsh are really low-res looking in comparison so there isn't a lot of choice there.

[Jakkra]

I'd have to agree completely with Edrawr. I'm tired of seeing the same wolves running around, with people specc'd exactly the same. That doesn't sound fun to me at all.

I also agree with Anansi, that in raids where you are progressing and it's new content for you and your raid group, I'd still bring the wolf, to be the best I could be in that situation.

However, try out a few different wolfies to see if you like the feel of any of them. I use the Prairie wolf from Mulgore that barks when you click him, so it's a bit more bearable to be "expected" to bring a wolf to a raid.

And if people are complaining about your Devilsaur.. I've always wondered if you can use those Baby Spice items on them? Haha, that way they wouldn't be super huge all the time ^.^

[Rhyela]

The main issue is what sort of raiding you are doing. If you are in progression-oriented raiding where every drop of DPS matters, you do need a Wolf as Furious Howl is the single-best Hunter pet DPS-boosting ability and the DPS it provides is significantly more than nearly non-existant and it is more than a Cat's Rake by a fair margin. 320 AP for 20 seconds every 40 seconds is nothing to sneeze at, if this ability were on a piece of gear you'd trip over yourself to get such a thing.

Sounds like you know what you're talking about so I won't argue with you as far as the DPS with a wolf vs. (insert other pet here). However, my only comment remains, then, is that I hope Blizz does away with Furious Howl and opts for something else, or makes it a pet-only buff. For example, "[Furious Howl]: Does x damage to target and increases the wolf's attack power by x for 20 seconds. 1 min cooldown" (similar to a moth, and kind of the opposite of a carrion bird that decreases enemy's AP). I might get flamed for saying that, but it really gets under my skin when I feel like I HAVE to do something to be accepted to a progression raid. I suppose there's not much that can be done about that, but it honestly irks me. One pet shouldn't have that huge of a benefit over others, it's just...wrong, and it forces people to do it one way or be shunned. I get disgusted at how many wolves I see on my server. It's not just one here and there, it's just about every single hunter I see (level 80, that is). I think it sucks. But that's just my opinion and I know people will disagree, and that's fine.

[FuzzyDolly]

I think Blizz needs to do with all pet's special abilities and make them all talents. That way you could have any skin pet you want. You could have ANY ferocity pet with furious howl. Or ANY cunning pet pet demoralizing screech. (Just to name a couple off the top of my head.)

As a side note, I was in the middle of taming Nuraoc the purple chimera in area 52, and these 2 druids came by aggro'd it and killed it. I was SO mad. I think Blizz needs to rework taming so the crature is tagged to the hunter. That way if anyone kills the beast you're taming they won't get any loot or achievement out of it. Anywho, since that didn;t work out, I went and tamed Blacksting in Zanger. I'll have to go check out that white moth now and see how that works.

Is there anywhere on the website that lists pet's base dps? It's make it easier than taming all these creautres and taking them out for a spin. I know it will change based on level and talents, but at least then you could look at them and say... ok, a base wolf does X dps at 50 or 60 or 70. It'd make it so much easier to compare when choosing a pet.

[Rhyela]

As far as I know, the only place that shows damage is: http://www.wow-petopia.com/html/skills/skills.html That, however, shows the base damage of actual pet skills (provided they do damage - skills like Web do not apply). I want to say that Mania (or was it someone else?...) wanted to do a pet dps comparison a long time ago, but I'm not sure if that ever came to fruition. I think there are too many variables to get a reliable comparison. I could be wrong, though!

[Gigglemonsta]

I raid and PVP with Spirit Beasts.

Love em. MY DPS is also very competitive (I usually spank most hunters I come along), and I raid as BM.

It is possible to do good DPS as BM, and to use a cool pet (not your average wolf).

Pick what you want, most people get jealous that my guild and pugs let me raid as BM with a cool looking pet, while they have a black worg from Northrend like every other hunter

They cry even more when I beat them and they go BUT I HEARDS WOLF IS BEST HOW U BEAT ME?

=> Between ferocity pets, wolf vs spirit beast vs cat etc- Theres VERY little difference, we are talking 200dps tops between the best and the worst overall. Pick what pet you like and raid with it

btw - Similar topic here - http://forums.wow-petopia.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=775

[Vephriel]

I vote you make your own topic Gigglemonsta with all your BM tips. They've proven very helpful so far even just skimming through them. ^^

[Wassa]

While a wolf is nice to have, you do not NEED a wolf to raid.

I only bring my wolf for hardmodes and for progression nights where I need every little bit of dps I can squeeze out (like with Festergut, where we killed him our first time just before his enrage timer). Most of the time I bring my tallstrider, whose skill makes bosses miss moves and helps with tank survivability and healer using less heals quite well.

You can put yourself into http://femaledwarf.com/ and see how much a wolf will change your dps. Here is the data I get for my gear right now:

With tallstrider pet:
Combined: 10125.15 100.00%
Hunter: 8763.01 86.55%
Pet: 1362.14 13.45%

With wolf pet:
Combined: 10271.36 100.00%
Hunter: 8861.34 86.27%
Pet: 1410.01 13.73%

This is only a dps increase of +146.21 dps. It's a difference, but not a big one.

[Gigglemonsta]

I vote you make your own topic Gigglemonsta with all your BM tips. They've proven very helpful so far even just skimming through them. ^^

Hehe I mite just do this I seem to have hijacked a topic LOL!

[FuzzyDolly]

I vote you make your own topic Gigglemonsta with all your BM tips. They've proven very helpful so far even just skimming through them. ^^

I second that! If for no other reason than it would spot me from starting all these posts. LOL