Death to Thrall? Say it isnt so!

[cowmuflage]

Well the lore does state thrall and Jaina relastionship is not a romantic one so I don't think tehre going to go down that road no matter how many fanfics there are.

[Lisaara]

Well the lore does state thrall and Jaina relastionship is not a romantic one so I don't think tehre going to go down that road no matter how many fanfics there are.

Yeah. It was more father/daughter or best friends than anything.

[Slickrock]

Hmm... if Thrall becomes the earth aspect, I think I found his new bride...http://www.wowhead.com/npc=44025

[Lisaara]

Speaking of his dead wife, how come we've never heard word one about her (that I've ever seen)? Was that all in the comics past the point where I stopped reading because they weren't in consolidated book form yet?

I don't think the Thrall/Jaina ship is dead—look at ANY fandom and you'll see fangirls rabid for their OTP regardless of canon (Avatar: The Last Airbender seems to be the best example of this; look at all the absolutely rabid Katara/Zuko folks that still exist, even though the main character of the new season has been described as the child of Katara and Aang). My own personal 'ships, Mal'Ganis/Loken, Varian/Bolvar, Thrall/Garrosh, and Falric/Pear, are hilarious and terrible and that's why I love them. My interest in Thrall/Jaina is in a similar vein and I know some random orc chick is not going stop my own brain mongerings in that direction, but my personal OTPs* almost never have the possibility of children in their future, so if that's something Thrall's gonna want in the future (and he probably does, because most people do in this game), I think I'd rather he did hook up with some random orc chick I've never heard of than Jaina. That being said, I'd also prefer that she not actually become an important lore character but just be some background NPC so the focus is still on the actual important events, and not what type of severed head Thrall gets her for Valentine's Day.

* It feels really odd to use "OTP" in a plural sense because of what it stands for—One True Pairing—but really I can't find a better phrase because OTP in itself just seems like such a ridiculous concept and I love that idea.

I didnt even know he was married at one point. Then again, I never gave two shnitz about him cause he always came off as a total jackass.

But yeah, everyones free to have their OTPs. I've got my own(Malygos/Alexstrasza FTW) but long as the fans recognize it's not actual lore, it's all good. It's those that just hate Aggra cause shes not Jaina that make me shake my head. Those are the rabids. (I too also like Zutara/Zuko x Katara but I assure you, I'm not one of those rabid bitches. XD Promise! I've also found there are very rabid Kataang shippers too so they're far from innocent but I digress).

....ew.....XD Therazane? Unlikely. Aspect doesnt mean he turns into stone and Thrall has much better taste than that....XD

[Setanta]

The death of Tiffin was a central part in a couple of storylines, part of how Onyxia gained influence as a human in Stormwind, along with a central part in the storyline that led to Edwin VanCleef and the creation of the Defias.

Although at this stage, I'd say it's more likely that Jaina 'hooks up' with Khadgar or Anduin than to hook up with Varian. Hell, I'd give better odds to High-Tinkerer Mechatorque than Varian.

As for Aggra, it was pretty settled in the Shattering that if it hadn't been for the Shattering, or Thrall needing to go to Nagrand to try to prevent it, that Aggra would have succeeded Greatmother Geyah. And fwiw, I thought Golden did an admirable job balancing the Kael'thas/Arthas/Jaina triangle in her previous effort.

[Umbriel of Halaa]

I apologize for the big post.

Speaking of his dead wife, how come we've never heard word one about her (that I've ever seen)? Was that all in the comics past the point where I stopped reading because they weren't in consolidated book form yet?

Yeah, she was in the comics. And aside from fishing up the rock that killed her, you can visit her grave in SW.

I don't think the Thrall/Jaina ship is dead—look at ANY fandom and you'll see fangirls rabid for their OTP regardless of canon (Avatar: The Last Airbender seems to be the best example of this; look at all the absolutely rabid Katara/Zuko folks that still exist, even though the main character of the new season has been described as the child of Katara and Aang).

And that is what had me completely turned off of that show for the longest time. (Recently acquired season 1, intend to watch it eventually. But the fans...ugh.)

My own personal 'ships, Mal'Ganis/Loken, Varian/Bolvar, Thrall/Garrosh, and Falric/Pear, are hilarious and terrible and that's why I love them.

Mine is Asric/Jadaar. They act like they're married anyway.

My interest in Thrall/Jaina is in a similar vein and I know some random orc chick is not going stop my own brain mongerings in that direction, but my personal OTPs* almost never have the possibility of children in their future, so if that's something Thrall's gonna want in the future (and he probably does, because most people do in this game), I think I'd rather he did hook up with some random orc chick I've never heard of than Jaina.

Google "OT3." That is all.

As for Thrall/Garrosh, I once came up with a long, involved bit of silliness about that.

That being said, I'd also prefer that she not actually become an important lore character but just be some background NPC so the focus is still on the actual important events, and not what type of severed head Thrall gets her for Valentine's Day.

Now, see, I disagree. Because that's what I mean by "designated love interest." She's got no identity and no characterization that's not connected to him. Hell, we didn't even know what tribe she was from until recently. (Frostwolf, of course. Go figure. I think it would be a scandal for orcs in any position of authority to marry outside their tribes.)

Now, this isn't the "Thrall apparently dies" subplot I was hoping for. But I'm still hoping that it'll lead to Aggra developing an actual personality beyond "tsundere."

I didnt even know he was married at one point. Then again, I never gave two shnitz about him cause he always came off as a total jackass.

Watch out. The Varian fanboys will eat you alive.

It's those that just hate Aggra cause shes not Jaina that make me shake my head. Those are the rabids.

Nah, she just makes me because she's got less character development than, say, Gorgonna.

Although at this stage, I'd say it's more likely that Jaina 'hooks up' with Khadgar or Anduin than to hook up with Varian. Hell, I'd give better odds to High-Tinkerer Mechatorque than Varian.

Am I the only one who'd really prefer that Jaina stay single because it would shut up all of the stupid jokes about her exes turning evil?

As for Aggra, it was pretty settled in the Shattering that if it hadn't been for the Shattering, or Thrall needing to go to Nagrand to try to prevent it, that Aggra would have succeeded Greatmother Geyah.

But remember that she was pretty much introduced in that book. This is a character who should have been set up in BC, or at least gotten a cameo in Beyond the Dark Portal. (Garrosh did, after all.)

And fwiw, I thought Golden did an admirable job balancing the Kael'thas/Arthas/Jaina triangle in her previous effort.

Iffy. She did a good job of handling Jaina being attracted to Kael'thas but not really that into him, but I'm kind of so/so on the rest.

[Lisaara]

Yeah but I don't think any of that was ever in game, was it? I didnt play in vanilla so I don't know.

Anduin seems a tad too young for Jaina but I could see Khadgar definitely.

Agreed about Aggra. She WAS powerful long before the Shattering happened. So she technically didn't appear out of no where. She's been in the background for some time. But still she should've bee made actually NAMED in BC or atleast Wrath or something.

@Umbra - Bring em on. XD Varian is hated as much as Garrosh is on my server.

Oh I understand. But it's early yet. This questline and some after it may prove to give her more over time.

[cowmuflage]

You know Varian is basicly a human version of Garrosh LOL

[Lisaara]

You know Varian is basicly a human version of Garrosh LOL

When he's throwing a tempertantrum? Oh yes. Definitely. But otherwise, Varian is the lesser of two evils.

[Setanta]

Well other things to keep in mind, is that Garrosh like Saurfang the Younger were/are both older than Thrall. Aggra is either close in age to Thrall, or younger than him. Sure explaining away that she was "away from Garadar" when he made his return via quest can be considered a cop out, but it should also potentially be sufficient considering the damage that has been done to Draenor and the fact that it's still barely held together somehow.

I guess truthfully, we have to accept that this is supposed to be part of the evolution of Thrall, and likely wasn't planned for prior to discussions on what they could add to the game/lore just prior to work on Cataclysm.

Also, I'm with you in regards that I think it's best for Jaina to remain single. The question is whether or not Jaina's development will lead her to become more like her idol or if she will go down this other path of constantly seeking to be a peace maker between factions on Azeroth.

[Setanta]

You know Varian is basicly a human version of Garrosh LOL

When he's throwing a tempertantrum? Oh yes. Definitely. But otherwise, Varian is the lesser of two evils.

I don't know...one shows a capacity for learning, the other only relents when he's shamed by his son who will become the ArchBishiop at some point

[Umbriel of Halaa]

Yeah but I don't think any of that was ever in game, was it? I didnt play in vanilla so I don't know.

No, it wasn't in game, AFAIK.

Anduin seems a tad too young for Jaina but I could see Khadgar definitely.

Magi are long-lived, so she's still going to be in her prime when Anduin matures. Even so, I think she probably won't get over thinking of him as a kid.

Khadgar is a maybe.

Agreed about Aggra. She WAS powerful long before the Shattering happened. So she technically didn't appear out of no where. She's been in the background for some time. But still she should've bee made actually NAMED in BC or atleast Wrath or something.

I'd debate as to whether or not that rules out her having "appeared out of nowhere," but ehh.

@Umbra - Bring em on. XD Varian is hated as much as Garrosh is on my server.

You'd be surprised how many fanboys Garrosh has. Because AMG, he cussed at Sylvanas and is trying way too hard to attain memetic badass status. I think it's backlash from Horde players over Varian having fanboys, but even so.

Oh I understand. But it's early yet. This questline and some after it may prove to give her more over time.

What I was hoping for was "Thrall disappears towards the end of Cata, Aggra gets thrown into a political rivalry situation with Garrosh, Horde players get mixed up in the subplot" or something along those lines. But yeah, this has potential.

Sure explaining away that she was "away from Garadar" when he made his return via quest can be considered a cop out, but it should also potentially be sufficient considering the damage that has been done to Draenor and the fact that it's still barely held together somehow.

I guess truthfully, we have to accept that this is supposed to be part of the evolution of Thrall, and likely wasn't planned for prior to discussions on what they could add to the game/lore just prior to work on Cataclysm.

And I'd still question whether or not that's good writing, but that's another can of worms altogether.

[Setanta]

well there's a lot in regards to the game that can be considered fair writing at best, and that applies to within the game as well as novels and other official writings. The creation of Aggra allows for there to be some of a continuance of Orcs continuing to move away from the demonic taint that afflicted all but the "Mag'har". Using Metzen's premise that she and Thrall will have a few "little brown babies" leads to the speculation that we're going to start seeing a trending from green Orcs to brown Orcs. You've already got a brown Orc in charge of the Orcs and by proxy the Horde.

What gets me is how little questioning there is about why we don't see or hear more about Med'an in the game. People who haven't read the comics either in comic or book form likely don't even know much about Med'an, and how the story about him can be considered central to the rise of Cho'Gall and the Twilight Clan.

[Umbriel of Halaa]

well there's a lot in regards to the game that can be considered fair writing at best, and that applies to within the game as well as novels and other official writings. The creation of Aggra allows for there to be some of a continuance of Orcs continuing to move away from the demonic taint that afflicted all but the "Mag'har". Using Metzen's premise that she and Thrall will have a few "little brown babies" leads to the speculation that we're going to start seeing a trending from green Orcs to brown Orcs. You've already got a brown Orc in charge of the Orcs and by proxy the Horde.

You'll get no argument from me on any of this. But it really does all seem to come back to writing of dubious quality.

What gets me is how little questioning there is about why we don't see or hear more about Med'an in the game. People who haven't read the comics either in comic or book form likely don't even know much about Med'an, and how the story about him can be considered central to the rise of Cho'Gall and the Twilight Clan.

They may be reluctant to use Med'an because the fanbase views him as a blot on the lore. As far as I'm concerned, that's an overly selective judgment (his origin and ancestry may be over the top, but he really wasn't that badly written), but there you go.

[Lisaara]

Well they've already declared Med'an leader of the Council of Tirisfal and at Blizzcon, they wanted to put that in the game so....he's probably gonna be put in eventually.

[Setanta]

Well they've already declared Med'an leader of the Council of Tirisfal and at Blizzcon, they wanted to put that in the game so....he's probably gonna be put in eventually.

Oh I'm sure, we'll likely have to wait an expansion or two, while they find a way to integrate the fact that since Med'an is a PallyShaMage kind of makes him a little bit OP in terms of coexisting against anything in the game save Sargeras.

Then again, I'm the guy who thinks it'd be fun for Jaina to go "rogue" ala her hero Aegwynn.

[Umbriel of Halaa]

Oh I'm sure, we'll likely have to wait an expansion or two, while they find a way to integrate the fact that since Med'an is a PallyShaMage kind of makes him a little bit OP in terms of coexisting against anything in the game save Sargeras.

Well, he is still kind of in training: While he's a shamageicator, he's not really a master at any of the above. And I'm sure there will be plot reasons for his hands being figuratively tied.

Then again, I'm the guy who thinks it'd be fun for Jaina to go "rogue" ala her hero Aegwynn.

Possibly.

[Silivren]

You can fish up a bloody rock in Stormwind, the rock that killed Varian's wife. :O

Thats so messed up.. Poor Tiffin - she was such a beautiful lady.

[cowmuflage]

Yeah well so was that girl who helped thrall escape from slavery and look what happend to her lol.
Shes the only human to ahve one of those Orc hero songs.

[Lisaara]

You can fish up a bloody rock in Stormwind, the rock that killed Varian's wife. :O

Thats so messed up.. Poor Tiffin - she was such a beautiful lady.

Wait....she got killed by a rock? WTF?