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Unread postPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 9:06 am 
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Cerah wrote:
Besides, Blizzard seems intent on shoving Thrall/Aggra down our throats with an eagerness unmatched since Square's Squall/Rinoa forced romance plot in FF8.

Seriously, that's what bugs me most about Aggra. The fact she just appears out of nowhere, and Thrall declares her "the One" with little to no story to it whatsoever. That may be the "Orcish" way -- no drama, just getting to business, but Blizzard's audience are real-life humans, and this kind of storytelling just irks readers/gamers. I would have preferred Thrall just stay single. Seriously, Aggra seems like some designer's Mary Sue fan character that for some reason was allowed to become a real lore character. If anything, she's evidence that Blizzard needs to hire some story editors.
I'm not gonna say "Mary Sue." I am gonna say "designated love interest."

Saturo wrote:
I'm prefer Thrall+Jaina, like everyone else. ^^
I'd have actually preferred them to keep teasing that forever and never actually resolve it. Then again, give me a ship tease over a token romance any day.

Jessibelle wrote:
To reiterate to Aggra - Read The Shattering. Her story with him is there. So she did come with one. They always say the love you find is one you least expect to find. Orcs dont date humans. Never have. Never will. Blizzard's been firm that Jaina and Thrall dont like each other that way and never will.
Even if you disregard the fact that they did tease the hell out of that, Aggra is still a designated love interest who was created specifically for the purpose of being one.

And I wouldn't call her "strong," either. Just a classic tsundere.

Setanta wrote:
Without introducing her during TBC, there really wasn't any clean way to introduce her other than in the run up to the Shattering which is how they did it.
That's kind of their fault for not introducing her in BC. Or, hell, even in Wrath. Or hooking Thrall up with Gorgonna.

That said, if Thrall becomes the Earthwarder despite not being, you know, a dragon? Much as I hate to say it—especially seeing as while he's not one of my favorites, I like the character—if that happens, he's the Sue.

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Unread postPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:20 am 
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(Wouldn't they call that Gary-Stu then?)

Also Blizzard says in their own text that she is an incredibly strong shaman in her own right. ;)

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Unread postPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:57 pm 
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Jessibelle wrote:
(Wouldn't they call that Gary-Stu then?)
Or whatever. He's already an obvious author-pet; if he becomes the Earthwarder, he'll have become an author-pet who bends the setting around himself.

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Also Blizzard says in their own text that she is an incredibly strong shaman in her own right. ;)
There's an old rule when it comes to writing: Show, don't tell.

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Unread postPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:52 pm 
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I've noticed something. Most Gary-Stu's are usually loved and considered badass but Mary-Sue's get burned at the stake as if they were mass murderers. Just an observation from many years of reading fanfics and roleplaying(been roleplaying since AOL 4.0). Thrall is no different. Thrall is one of the most beloved characters of wow.....but Aggra is being burned just because someone put her there when she did no wrong.

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Unread postPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 1:15 am 
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In regards to Thrall-Aggra, Metzen did say, at Blizz-con, That soon Thrall would meet his match and they would make "little brown babies" (his words) When asked about when/if Thrall and Jaina would ever get together.

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Unread postPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 1:16 am 
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Jelani wrote:
In regards to Thrall-Aggra, Metzen did say, at Blizz-con, That soon Thrall would meet his match and they would make "little brown babies" (his words) When asked about when/if Thrall and Jaina would ever get together.

This is true. I forgot he had said that. How cute. XD

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Unread postPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 10:25 pm 
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Jessibelle wrote:
I've noticed something. Most Gary-Stu's are usually loved and considered badass but Mary-Sue's get burned at the stake as if they were mass murderers. Just an observation from many years of reading fanfics and roleplaying(been roleplaying since AOL 4.0). Thrall is no different. Thrall is one of the most beloved characters of wow.....but Aggra is being burned just because someone put her there when she did no wrong.
Again, I don't think Aggra's a Sue. Just a designated love interest, which says more about the writing in general than about her as a character.

As for Thrall? Again, he's an author-pet, with all that that implies. If he becomes the Earthwarder, then he's officially a Stu, and an exasperating one.

Jelani wrote:
In regards to Thrall-Aggra, Metzen did say, at Blizz-con, That soon Thrall would meet his match and they would make "little brown babies" (his words) When asked about when/if Thrall and Jaina would ever get together.
Which doesn't rule out the possibility that she was whipped up specifically to sink that particular 'ship. Cata was in beta at that point, and The Shattering was already at least in the works.

Now, mind you: maybe this is a bit shallow, but the revelation that her name is pronounced more like the old seer from The Dark Crystal than like a cheap "wife aggro" joke makes me respect the character slightly more. She's still a textbook example of designated love interest.

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:17 am 
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Umbriel, I didn't mean you thought of her as such but if you read a few posts above, some others do(though I think thats just cause they're mad that their OTP will never happen so suddenly they hate her cause it's not Jaina), although I don't think she is. She probably was just there to be Thrall's wife but yanno....some of the most amazing characters in novels tend to be that sometimes. I wasn't thrilled with Aggra at first but now I've come to love and respect her as I've read hers and Thrall's adventures in The Shattering(some I found hilarious too...XD). Their love is not without a story but I do agree still she could've been introduced better. :3

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:22 am 
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Well least its not a Twilight level love thing lol it could ALLWAYS be worse :P

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:36 am 
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cowmuflage wrote:
Well least its not a Twilight level love thing lol it could ALLWAYS be worse :P

There would be a mob after Metzen and the author if that ever happened. Lets be glad Aggra is NOT Bella Swan.

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 5:04 am 
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Jessibelle wrote:
Umbriel, I didn't mean you thought of her as such but if you read a few posts above, some others do(though I think thats just cause they're mad that their OTP will never happen so suddenly they hate her cause it's not Jaina), although I don't think she is. She probably was just there to be Thrall's wife but yanno....some of the most amazing characters in novels tend to be that sometimes. I wasn't thrilled with Aggra at first but now I've come to love and respect her as I've read hers and Thrall's adventures in The Shattering(some I found hilarious too...XD). Their love is not without a story but I do agree still she could've been introduced better. :3
Well, The Shattering is actually kind of why I consider her a designated love interest (Christie Golden, as far as I'm concerned, can only handle romantic subplots worth a whatever in her original works). But ehh.

No, my main issue with the sinking of the Thrall/Jaina ship is that it leaves Varian/Jaina as a possibility. And that bugs me, for reasons that are also connected to The Shattering (although The Shattering isn't the only reason why).

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 5:06 am 
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Umbriel of Halaa wrote:
Jessibelle wrote:
Umbriel, I didn't mean you thought of her as such but if you read a few posts above, some others do(though I think thats just cause they're mad that their OTP will never happen so suddenly they hate her cause it's not Jaina), although I don't think she is. She probably was just there to be Thrall's wife but yanno....some of the most amazing characters in novels tend to be that sometimes. I wasn't thrilled with Aggra at first but now I've come to love and respect her as I've read hers and Thrall's adventures in The Shattering(some I found hilarious too...XD). Their love is not without a story but I do agree still she could've been introduced better. :3
Well, The Shattering is actually kind of why I consider her a designated love interest (Christie Golden, as far as I'm concerned, can only handle romantic subplots worth a whatever in her original works). But ehh.

No, my main issue with the sinking of the Thrall/Jaina ship is that it leaves Varian/Jaina as a possibility. And that bugs me, for reasons that are also connected to The Shattering (although The Shattering isn't the only reason why).

I highly doubt Jaina will end up with Varian. Varian seems to have no interest what so ever in romance.

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 5:45 am 
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Jessibelle wrote:
I highly doubt Jaina will end up with Varian. Varian seems to have no interest what so ever in romance.
I'm just gonna say that I hope you're right, and spare everyone any possible rants on the subject.

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Last edited by Umbriel of Halaa on Sat May 07, 2011 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 5:46 am 
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Umbriel of Halaa wrote:
Jessibelle wrote:
I highly doubt Jaina will end up with Varian. Varian seems to have no interest what so ever in romance.
I hope you're right, I really do. But I wouldn't put it past Blizzard at this point.

I still enjoy the game, mind you. But their writing has been slipping a bit since at least Wrath.

Pfft. It's slipped since Illidan and Kael'thas were killed off(which I believe Blizz admitted wasnt supposed to happen).

EDIT: Actually, it probably slipped with that crappy Illidan VS Arthas fight scene.....

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Last edited by Lisaara on Sat May 07, 2011 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 5:47 am 
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Jessibelle wrote:
Pfft. It's slipped since Illidan and Kael'thas were killed off(which I believe Blizz admitted wasnt supposed to happen).
Just as I edited out my mini-rant. :P

And yeah, I'm inclined to agree.

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 5:51 am 
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Umbriel of Halaa wrote:
Jessibelle wrote:
Pfft. It's slipped since Illidan and Kael'thas were killed off(which I believe Blizz admitted wasnt supposed to happen).
Just as I edited out my mini-rant. :P

And yeah, I'm inclined to agree.

I edited mine too. XD Haha.

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 8:12 am 
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The reason Varian isn't too interested in romance is that he's still mourning his dead wife. ^^

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 12:00 pm 
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Speaking of his dead wife, how come we've never heard word one about her (that I've ever seen)? Was that all in the comics past the point where I stopped reading because they weren't in consolidated book form yet?

I don't think the Thrall/Jaina ship is dead—look at ANY fandom and you'll see fangirls rabid for their OTP regardless of canon (Avatar: The Last Airbender seems to be the best example of this; look at all the absolutely rabid Katara/Zuko folks that still exist, even though the main character of the new season has been described as the child of Katara and Aang). My own personal 'ships, Mal'Ganis/Loken, Varian/Bolvar, Thrall/Garrosh, and Falric/Pear, are hilarious and terrible and that's why I love them. My interest in Thrall/Jaina is in a similar vein and I know some random orc chick is not going stop my own brain mongerings in that direction, but my personal OTPs* almost never have the possibility of children in their future, so if that's something Thrall's gonna want in the future (and he probably does, because most people do in this game), I think I'd rather he did hook up with some random orc chick I've never heard of than Jaina. That being said, I'd also prefer that she not actually become an important lore character but just be some background NPC so the focus is still on the actual important events, and not what type of severed head Thrall gets her for Valentine's Day.

* It feels really odd to use "OTP" in a plural sense because of what it stands for—One True Pairing—but really I can't find a better phrase because OTP in itself just seems like such a ridiculous concept and I love that idea.

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:15 pm 
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Unread postPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:47 pm 
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You can fish up a bloody rock in Stormwind, the rock that killed Varian's wife. :O

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