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 Post subject: Level 100 talent??
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:10 pm 
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Last edited by pop on Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Level 100 talent??
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:15 pm 
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That's funny. :mrgreen:

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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:17 pm 
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Wait. They made that thing people have been asking for marks for years an actual thing for both it and survival? Woah. (Also is it just me or does the BM one seem a tad bit OP...)

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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:19 pm 
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Aeladrine wrote:
Wait. They made that thing people have been asking for marks for years an actual thing for both it and survival? Woah. (Also is it just me or does the BM one seem a tad bit OP...)


No it seems a little bit op to me too :lol:

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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:19 pm 
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Aeladrine wrote:
Wait. They made that thing people have been asking for marks for years an actual thing for both it and survival? Woah. (Also is it just me or does the BM one seem a tad bit OP...)



Shhhhhhhhhhhh, if I start playing again I don't want them to realize that till 5 months in. :lol: :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Level 100 talent??
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:38 pm 
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A lot of these seem very OP

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 Post subject: Re: Level 100 talent??
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:23 pm 
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I feel like the BM one would make a lot more sense if it was only 30%, like the other two. We don't usually get things that increase damage above that, anyway. Also the shadow priest talents seem kinda... Meh. Not as amazing as I'd like. Certainly not amazing compared to BM hunters.

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 Post subject: Re: Level 100 talent??
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:24 pm 
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Thankfully, the numbers will get fleshed out (well, hopefully) in beta.

So I guess were the only class that the doesn't have all 3 talents on the internet yet? lulz

Edit: Also pop, a tremendous thank you for putting this list together in a single place. Been googling my arse off but no need!

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 Post subject: Re: Level 100 talent??
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:33 am 
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I absolutely HATE With or Without You. This got implemented in the worst way possible.

First of all, If you're going to go for the pet-less option, give it to all three specs. BM doesn't mean ONLY animal husbandry. After all, THE BEAST WITHIN allowing us benefit from BESTIAL WRATH is our major cooldown, and is a direction I wish Beast Mastery was brought toward more than always just tacking damage onto our pet whenever a bandaid is needed.

BM's core problems and complaints are from the pet being such a reliance in damage. GIVING IT MORE DAMAGE is not the solution (and will likely cause a mob in the PvP crowd). Giving it all of its talents will not help its survivability. Even with numbers getting adjusted, it's just yet another bad bandaid.

I already wasn't holding out any hope that their promises to actually start trying to fix the issues we have re:Overhaul would happen in the next expansion. This certainly seems to cement that.

/jaded raiding mentality has ruined me. There was a time when something like that would have been exciting but now it just seems... well, partly, lazy, and secondly, fondly remembering how OP Stampede looked... and remember, that got nerf after nerf after release.

RE: Other talents, MMO Champion listed two others, I think. A basic direct port of Diablo III's Demon Hunter's Bola Shot (replacing Arcane Shot), and some souped up Steady Shot (that would replace Steady/Cobra)... so yeah. Not really intuitive. The petless spec would sound like the creative idea if they didn't really drop the ball on the BM part. If I had plans to play I'd probably take Bola Shot while cursing Blizzard for still not letting me dual-wield hand-crossbows. ;) I really like the D3 Demon Hunter!

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 Post subject: Re: Level 100 talent??
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:48 am 
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Unfortunately Neil....I heavily disagree with your statement about BM. It's called BEAST MASTER for a reason. Ever since Warcraft, it is shown for BMs to be masters of beasts, not masters of bestial power. We're not warlocks that sacrifice our pets to gain their power. If they did it the same way warlocks do the Grimoire of Sacrifice, we're just wannabe warlocks that are cold blooded killers and from an rp perspective.....pets would NEVER trust us cause we'd just kill them for selfish gain and that's not what a hunter is or ever has been about.

That aside, that talent is what players have been asking for. It was never wanted for BM(petless BM = useless and kinda stupid, imho). It was wanted for SV or MM. The topic's been brought up multiple times for those two specs only, not for BM. It wouldn't make sense to make BM go petless for reasons stated earlier. I do agree the BM portion could be reworked a little but I personally don't think it's a bad start.

Stampede got rebuffed for PvE, if you weren't aware of that so it's not really nerfed anymore unless you're pvping. From a pvp perspective, it was understandable cause people abused it. It's no fun when you have a team of spiders on you keeping you stunlocked more than a rogue.

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 Post subject: Re: Level 100 talent??
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:05 am 
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Why does the idea of not having a pet as BM = SACRIFICING OUR PET FOR POWER? That's not even the idea I'd want to provoke? You can send a pet back to your stable rather unassertively but still independently draw upon your own font of power. We can be a beast master, mastering the ways of the beast, becoming the beast. It's right there in some of our abilities. It's clear that Blizzard won't open that road up as an option game-play wise, but there's no DEFINITION of what the MASTERY in Beast Mastery means. Allow us to draw our own interpretations.

I mostly don't like the talent because it's extremely lazy from a developmental standpoint.

I'm very well of Stampede's life cycle. I raid. :P Stampede got fixed back to fit but they did take out the usage of pet abilities while in effect. I tested Stampede a lot in beta and those kinds of things raised a red flag to me, "this won't make it to live, too powerful." And then it did, and they eventually retracted it in a time where we had gotten used to it. I don;t think the lesson's been learned here, but I won't have to worry about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Level 100 talent??
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:11 am 
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When you say 'becoming the beast', that doesn't say "BM". That then makes us druids. That's a druids job, not a hunter. Druids make pacts with said bestial spirits to earn their forms. That was shown before they took the quests out but the lore still remains with them.

I understand your opinion, just as I have my own. Merely voicing mine. :)

It's not even in beta yet. I'd not worry about it really. Even then, nothing in beta is set in stone. Live is constantly changing too so anyones best bet is to be flexible. I wasn't happy they 'nerfed' Stampede BUT I do understand why it was done despite that. Only reason Stampede made it to live like it did from the Beta(being OP) is cause no hunters really reported it being OP. I think we all know hunters tend to shoot themselves in the foot more often than not....no pun intended. x3

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 Post subject: Re: Level 100 talent??
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:49 am 
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From MMO-champ:

Bola Shot
30 Focus, 40 yd range
Instant
Fires a bola at the target, which wraps around them. After 1 sec, it explodes, dealing 3000 Fire damage to them, and an additional 2000 Fire damage to all enemies within 5 yards.
Replaces Arcane Shot.


Snipe
40 yd range
2.77 sec cast
Requires Ranged Weapon
Carefully line up the perfect shot, dealing 150% weapon damage. Generates 60 Focus.
Cannot be cast while moving.
Replaces Steady Shot and Cobra Shot.
Beast Mastery & Survival
Also refreshes Serpent Sting.
Marksmanship
Also triggers Steady Focus.

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 Post subject: Re: Level 100 talent??
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:12 am 
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Junrei wrote:
Unfortunately Neil....I heavily disagree with your statement about BM. It's called BEAST MASTER for a reason. Ever since Warcraft, it is shown for BMs to be masters of beasts, not masters of bestial power. We're not warlocks that sacrifice our pets to gain their power. If they did it the same way warlocks do the Grimoire of Sacrifice, we're just wannabe warlocks that are cold blooded killers and from an rp perspective.....pets would NEVER trust us cause we'd just kill them for selfish gain and that's not what a hunter is or ever has been about.

That aside, that talent is what players have been asking for. It was never wanted for BM(petless BM = useless and kinda stupid, imho). It was wanted for SV or MM. The topic's been brought up multiple times for those two specs only, not for BM. It wouldn't make sense to make BM go petless for reasons stated earlier. I do agree the BM portion could be reworked a little but I personally don't think it's a bad start.

Stampede got rebuffed for PvE, if you weren't aware of that so it's not really nerfed anymore unless you're pvping. From a pvp perspective, it was understandable cause people abused it. It's no fun when you have a team of spiders on you keeping you stunlocked more than a rogue.


This.

I love that new talent (apart from numbers tuning which is WAY to early to talk about). I really hope we get it, as there are certain fights that are just not pet friendly, and it would be useful to be able to go canon spec.

Love it.

Love it.

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 Post subject: Re: Level 100 talent??
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:41 am 
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I really like WOWY, and I think I would pick it over the other two for both my BM and MM specs. But that's because I mainly do solo stuff, pet-tanking as BM and going petless-MM wherever having a pet out is a handicap (Kael, Malygos etc.). Also, I already have a badass aoe perpetum mobile 2-button rotation (cobra-multi-repeat untill dead), so I don't need aoe arcane shoot, and I value my ability of cast-on-move to much to go for the snipe shoot.

Both WOWY and Sniper (or at least their implications - petless hunter and more dps while standing still) were heavily requested by hunter community, and I bow to Blizz for respecting that :)

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 Post subject: Re: Level 100 talent??
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:11 am 
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WOWY: What I am curious about, and something that has been mentioned, is the pet buffs/debuffs in a group setting. I can't imagine a +% dmg on one person is going to outweigh the +crit or +mastery to a raid as a whole, especially since those stats can translate to healing, survivability etc for other roles. If implemented today, my guess is this talent would be a luxury for larger raid groups who already have buffs/debuffs covered. Could it be this hints toward a future overhaul (or at the very least, tweaking) of the buff/debuff system? Likely not, I imagine, but there do seem to be more questions than answers with this I'm afraid.

As for the BM side, I personally love the idea of a ultra pet, but I'm not a fan of shifting even more dps and utility to a wonky NPC. Probably neither here nor there for me since I don't care much for BM's toolbox.

Snipe: 60 focus? This would be a rotation changer, not wanting to use it above 40 focus so no focus is wasted. Now it may be easy to *start* the cast under 40 focus, but somehow making sure you are still under 40 by the time the 2.7 second cast finishes?

I would compare it to Cobra and Steady shot, but I imagine those (or even this shot) will be tuned a bit differently in WoD. Right now though, even if you did cap focus, I imagine Snipe would whoop the tar out of both Cobra and Steady.

Bola: This struck me as odd. Arcane shot and Multi shot have filled the role of "dump" shots for different situations: Arcane for few targets, Multi for multiple targets. This puts arcane, which would become bola, into the AoE category. Assuming this stays in its current form, I am curious how it would compare to Multi shot in terms of AoE control, and focus/GCD/dmg ratio. I can't imagine this would beat SV's Multi shot (assuming it stays as it is).

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 Post subject: Re: Level 100 talent??
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:33 am 
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The range on Bola Shot is very small, only 5 yards, so I don't think it would replace Multi Shot for AoE stuff. However it does remind me of what Explosive Shot kinda was back when it was first introduced. This looks interesting and I'll most likely use it in my SV spec unless the fight mechanics is pet unfriendly, in which case I'll switch to With or Without You.

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 Post subject: Re: Level 100 talent??
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:44 pm 
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Myrrmi wrote:
I really like WOWY, and I think I would pick it over the other two for both my BM and MM specs. But that's because I mainly do solo stuff, pet-tanking as BM and going petless-MM wherever having a pet out is a handicap (Kael, Malygos etc.). Also, I already have a badass aoe perpetum mobile 2-button rotation (cobra-multi-repeat untill dead), so I don't need aoe arcane shoot, and I value my ability of cast-on-move to much to go for the snipe shoot.


One thing to think about here is the impact of the squish on soloing content. You won't necessarily be as OP anymore against old raid bosses and such. Perhaps it will even out, but I would expect that soloing is going to get more challenging.

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 Post subject: Re: Level 100 talent??
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:45 pm 
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Good point, the AoE spray is smaller than Multi-shot but its only smaller by 3 yards. Multi is 8 yards in the spread, verses Bola's 5. I can't imagine a practical situation where we can eyeball "this group is 6-8 yards apart so I need to multi shot" and "this group is 5 or less yards, so I need to Bola." Seems to overlap in that regard. 3 yards doesn't seem to be enough of a difference to justify another niche spell. Maybe it'll change though! Maybe they will tweak the yards affected, which would change the niche greatly.

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 Post subject: Re: Level 100 talent??
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:46 pm 
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Quivering wrote:
WOWY: What I am curious about, and something that has been mentioned, is the pet buffs/debuffs in a group setting. I can't imagine a +% dmg on one person is going to outweigh the +crit or +mastery to a raid as a whole, ...

Snipe: 60 focus? This would be a rotation changer, not wanting to use it above 40 focus so no focus is wasted. Now it may be easy to *start* the cast under 40 focus, but somehow making sure you are still under 40 by the time the 2.7 second cast finishes?


Regarding the pet buffs, all depends on your group. 5-mans you will probably want the buff. It usually doesn't matter in 20-man+ content.

Snipe... might be real interesting rotation with MM with Aimed Shot..

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