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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:54 am 
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So what's the "fix", that it will follow your pet (who may be prowling) and screws up positioning that way? Or it says back with you, and screws up positioning another way? Either way, they can't write an AI that will read the players' minds. Guardians are almost always a pain in the butt, mostly because you can't dismiss them on demand. That's my main issue. From what you've said, it sounds like they're working on the AI, which doesn't address that issue. On demand summon/dismiss would give the player a failsafe option when the AI or whatever just isn't working right.

Everyone can xmog other weapons over their artifact if they don't like the artifact art. Even thought Hati uses a reasonable model now, every BM hunter will be stuck with it. Like an artifact that only one spec of one class isn't allowed to xmog. Other classes have artifact intros too, where the character is "invested" in those weapons. But they're xmoggable. Sorry, but "for the sake of a quest chain" doesn't satisfy the homogeneity problem of Hati (my second issue).


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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:41 am 
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Oh I hear you loud in clear, I am praying they get it right too, I really do. I have so many little worries/questions/concerns that I could write a novel about (eg. when you teach your pet to FD, will Hati FD too? or will we just have to watch it die and suffer the 2 cooldown of it's death before having it back?!?!) so... many... questions! :lol:

The "fix" they are/have implemented has not effected Hati's behavior thus far I can tell. She still won't follow commands (Passive, Attack, Stay, etc.) but I didn't play around with it for that long (just target dummies) and Cela did say it would be buggy.

Things like prowling, well Hati is technically be a Spirit Beasts I guess, so one would hope she'd prowl too?? but realistically BM doesn't have camo in Legion sadly so will never effect Hati, and if you had any other pet that didn't prowl, we've always had to dismiss them anyway to use invis/stealth properly.

Being stuck with a single model for an entire expansion is also not a a design choice that seems fun to me, but the fact that they are listening and slowly changing things has me hopeful. Having the ability to cosmetically change Hati to another model of our choosing really is the best and only way to make everyone happy I think in this case, but Hati HAS to have a base model at least to start with. And the one they have now I think is way better than the previous choice.

Now I think asking to add/incorporate a way to further change "Transmog" Hati to another pet/option would be the next step if they have the tech to do that. They have already confirmed they will be looking into making our stabled pet (Via a glyph I think) to become our dire beasts, which bodes well for adding addition cosmetic options for Hati.

All I know is that they are actively working on a LOT of things from everyone's feedback, and that also includes BM hunters (even though it was the last hunter spec to be released for testing) in different ways, some cosmetic and some gameplay. And that just makes me hopeful that if we keep providing positive and well thought out feedback, just who knows.

Oh and the "for the sake of a quest chain" doesn't satisfy the homogeneity problem of Hati (my second issue).".
In my thinking of it was too late/they have done too much work to remove Hati/second pet all together as an option now. When BM's info 1st came out, there was no mention of Hati or a second pet. Its was very heavily bases around "summoning and army of pets". They changed it, reducing the amount of pets via a lot of artifact talents and added Hati to the artifact. I was just trying to say she's in now, it's too late, they just have to make her work ;)

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Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:57 am 
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SpiritBinder wrote:
they just have to make her work ;)


SB, pulling out the Tim Gun line XD

I agree though, some kind of glyph like for dire to allow us to have a randomly chosen stabled pet over Hati.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:11 pm 
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the more it goes, the less I am impressed with Blizzard's work with Hunters (particularly Beastmastery Hunters).

We all get to run around with the same weapon.
And now, we all get to run around with the same pet.

Yay! doesn't that make us all feel so distinct?

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Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:17 pm 
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Sukurachi wrote:
We all get to run around with the same weapon.
And now, we all get to run around with the same pet.

Yay! doesn't that make us all feel so distinct?


I kind of feel the same way. I've been BM since 04 and now for the first time I may either A) change to SV or B) play another class. Both are heartbreaking options. :cry:

I do not like that Hati is a female. That everyone will have him. That he'll be butt sniffing constantly when out of combat. Although I guess that's better than asthmatic wheezing on your back?

I DO like though that new model. I really really do. <3 Personally, and this is only speaking for myself, I wish the NR worgs and my beloved Skoll would get an updated model like this along with the other wolves. I feel Skoll would be stunning with this model. But Hati, as gorgeous as the new model is, doesn't make me happy to be ONE OF US ONE OF US. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile kind of thing.

Hope that makes sense :?

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Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:09 pm 
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zedxrgal, I understand.

I also actually find the model VERY attractive.. except it simply doesn't fit most of my hunters.
Only one runs permanently with a wolf (one of the toaster puppies from Tanaan), all my other hunters use completely different animals: spirit cats, tallstriders, ghost crabs, rylaks, etc...

The wolf, while - again - nice-looking, simply does not fit with any of those toons.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:41 pm 
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Well, I guess there's an easy answer to the complaints about BM hunters all going to be the same now...play a different class ;)


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Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:24 pm 
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I understand too, Zed.

Hati is PERFECT for me! But I'm not looking forward to EVERY BM hunter having the same secondary pet. I ended up swapping wolves once back in Wrath when those were THE raiding pet to have. One of the other hunters in my raid started using the same model and as a result, I lost the kinship with mine. I couldn't find my wolf in the mess of melee anymore.

I'm not looking forward to raids where there are a bunch of identical-looking spirit wolves, no matter how pretty the model is. This is why it took me so long to warm up to any of the spirit beasts myself in the first place!

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Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:55 pm 
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zedxrgal wrote:
Sukurachi wrote:
We all get to run around with the same weapon.
And now, we all get to run around with the same pet.

Yay! doesn't that make us all feel so distinct?


I kind of feel the same way. I've been BM since 04 and now for the first time I may either A) change to SV or B) play another class. Both are heartbreaking options. :cry:

I do not like that Hati is a female.


Just adding to this note, that I think Hati may actually have had some gender changes in recent Alpha builds (I don't have an Alpha account, so I can't check). Awhile back I noticed this tooltip:

"Hati's bond with you grows ever stronger, increasing his effectiveness in battle.
Increases Hati's damage by 0.5%."

http://legion.wowhead.com/news=251606/legion-alpha-build-21215-data-updates-spell-changes-new-models-level-110-pvp-pre

But I don't know if that is a change or typo, since I'm curious if Hati is referred to as "he" during the Artifact Acquisition quest too.



Kalliope wrote:
I understand too, Zed.

Hati is PERFECT for me! But I'm not looking forward to EVERY BM hunter having the same secondary pet. I ended up swapping wolves once back in Wrath when those were THE raiding pet to have. One of the other hunters in my raid started using the same model and as a result, I lost the kinship with mine. I couldn't find my wolf in the mess of melee anymore.

I'm not looking forward to raids where there are a bunch of identical-looking spirit wolves, no matter how pretty the model is. This is why it took me so long to warm up to any of the spirit beasts myself in the first place!


This is pretty similar to how I feel, about all these artifacts in general, but especially my Hunter pets. I love the wolf, and I love the model. But picking pets for me is a pretty serious matter. There's a reason why I've stuck to my main pet being the same all these years later. Even as newer and better models come out, I'm very attached to this pet. Forcing me to have Hati is a bit of a downer, but I could live with it.

But somehow seeing everyone stuck with Hati makes me less inclined to like Hati. It feels less like a pet or companion and more like an escort quest that never ends.

That's why even though I like the new model and it's something I'd use, I fully support there being a way to select our own 2nd pet. I get Hati is important and tied to the weapon but... if this expansion is all about 'class fantasy' and really showing off what our specs are all about... then shoving Beastmastery Hunters into having this one pet that many will not have an attachment to is not the way to go about this, because that's really not the identity of our spec imo.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:42 am 
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Is everyone ignoring the multiple color variations of the model of Hati that we've seen or am I just reading things wrong?

Image

Each one of those is lightning marked in the teeth and claws. Add to that the guns themselves all have four different color varieties from what I've seen so far? I am imagining that the first four are the colors Hati can be depending on what color your weapon is (And I am hoping that the last two are a remake of Skoll and perhaps the model of the father getting a change or such?) I would assume that the color Hati is depends on the color of the weapon that you are using. But I could be wrong?

I can see people being upset at being stuck with a wolf if it does not fit their character at all and such-but I will say that I am thrilled with the new version of Hati, it is enough of a change that I can be happy with it.

But the developers apaprently listened to the complaints about the old model of Hati, perhaps they will listen to the complaints about being stuck with a specific companion as the second pet. I remember hearing about some glyph or spell that makes stampede and the like summon pets from your stable instead of random pets from the wild. Perhaps they will work something into Hati.

But it is a step in the right direction-after this expansion I can;t see them making BM hunters go back to using one pet at a time unless it just really does not work in this expansion. And if we are a two pet spec from here on out, once we lose the Artifact, I could see them letting us use our own pets as the second one then... Or is that just wishful thinking?


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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:50 am 
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zedxrgal wrote:
I do not like that Hati is a female.

I'm just curious why you don't like that Hati is (was) a female, and why he seems to have transitioned to male in the latest build. Was he male in previous Lore and they initially got his gender wrong in Legion?

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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:15 am 
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Wain wrote:
zedxrgal wrote:
I do not like that Hati is a female.

I'm just curious why you don't like that Hati is (was) a female, and why he seems to have transitioned to male in the latest build. Was he male in previous Lore and they initially got his gender wrong in Legion?

I think it's probably because in actual Norse mythology, Hati (and Skoll) are the sons of Fenrir and so it would seem a little odd for Hati to be female, even if it's just a loose interpretation in a video game.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:20 am 
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Vephriel wrote:
Wain wrote:
zedxrgal wrote:
I do not like that Hati is a female.

I'm just curious why you don't like that Hati is (was) a female, and why he seems to have transitioned to male in the latest build. Was he male in previous Lore and they initially got his gender wrong in Legion?

I think it's probably because in actual Norse mythology, Hati (and Skoll) are the sons of Fenrir and so it would seem a little odd for Hati to be female, even if it's just a loose interpretation in a video game.

Ah I see. I kind of liked that one of his wolves was male and the other female. :)

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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:15 am 
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Wain wrote:
Vephriel wrote:
I think it's probably because in actual Norse mythology, Hati (and Skoll) are the sons of Fenrir and so it would seem a little odd for Hati to be female, even if it's just a loose interpretation in a video game.

Ah I see. I kind of liked that one of his wolves was male and the other female. :)

Hee, me too! It was a nice twist on the source mythology. :D

As for your point Shade, it's still essentially going to be all BM hunters with the same wolf in different colors. The new model is great (and a nice gesture from Blizzard), but not the essence of the aforementioned problem.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:38 am 
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Shade wrote:
Is everyone ignoring the multiple color variations of the model of Hati that we've seen or am I just reading things wrong?


No, we're not ignoring them. You might be reading all the stuff people have written wrong. They are mere color variations, they don't make Hati a personal choice.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:17 pm 
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Xota wrote:
Shade wrote:
Is everyone ignoring the multiple color variations of the model of Hati that we've seen or am I just reading things wrong?


No, we're not ignoring them. You might be reading all the stuff people have written wrong. They are mere color variations, they don't make Hati a personal choice.


This. As I said the model(s) is gorgeous including all it's color variants. It's just that EVERY BM hunter will have the exact same Hati. Blizzard has always said they want players to feel like individuals etc. But when you're ................. forced for lack of a better word to have the same wolf (regardless of color) as everyone else then that's taking the individualist play away and for some it does break immersion and attachment.
So that basically means Wain, Vephriel, Kalliope, you, this person and the next will all be running round with the same wolf because you have no choice.

Yes one could make the argument that "every hunter has this wolf, that cat, this spirit beast BUT ............... they're still individualist. They can be male or female. Have their own name. Even have emotes w/the right addon. With Hati it's just the same for everyone. Yes in your personal lore Hati can be male /female but you cannot control him. You cannot rename him. And EVERY other hunter will have him and have to use him. That's the issue with a lot of BM hunters.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:45 pm 
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Well thank the goddess they updated the model. Ugg, that'd been my main complaint.

While I stand with my other Beast Master hunters, here when I say That I'd much have prefered a lightning over effect on a pet __I__ CHOSE, that this, at least means we won't be running around with a model out of Litch king. So.. that's something.

I like the new wolf. I hope we DO get the color options as I like a few of the darker ones more. My hunter's 'motiff' is 'green' so a bright blue white wolf is going to clash a bit. The black with blue teeth would go much better, or even the dark skoll blue one.

But either way, the new model is a huge improvement over the old. Lets hope they keep listening.

I'm still pissed off about the gun.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:42 am 
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I don't think putting a lightning effect on a variable personally-picked summoned pet would be feasible just because they'd have to map the lightning arcs over every bloody model in the game, basically, and I don't blame them for not wanting to. Plus the color of the secondary pet is supposed to match the gun.... so they don't wanna make palette swaps of every model either. I think the ONLY way to have it so you can pair your 'second pet' as a personal pick that's even possibly doable is to add the 'ghost effect' that they've developed since pandaland since that's an overlay that doesn't require anything special to map it over any model they want.

I think the concept, though, is that Hati is...well, kind of like a hologram projected by the gun. It's not a real pet; it doesn't eat or have emotions, it can't even think on its own (it just mimics your real pet, remember?)... it's a titantech-generated thingummy that materializes automatically when the person picks up the weapon. It LOOKS like a thunder worg because... magic, I guess, but either way it's not a real creature at all but more just a projection made solid. Like the shoveltusk heads on that one pair of shaman shoulders, same dif.

Along that line, though... to ME it doesn't so much bother me that the projection, as it were, is set without player input. But it would be a lot better if the projection was different for every gun model... like what if the 'Elekk Gun' gave you a (small) elekk instead of a worg. Or the snake one gave you a snake? It's still more work than just 100 colors of woof, but it's not some vast project comprised of thousands of man-hours either. You'd have 5 (6?) models, with five (or whatever) color variants. And a lot more variety in what's dragging after your character.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:00 am 
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Nachtwulf wrote:
I don't think putting a lightning effect on a variable personally-picked summoned pet would be feasible just because they'd have to map the lightning arcs over every bloody model in the game.

And every future pet model too. I'd love to see it apply lightning to any beast but, like you pointed out, I suspect it's unfeasible.

Though they are clearly able to apply some auras generically to any beast, but the best they could probably do with that is apply very two-dimensional-looking effects, i.e. they'd look more like they were wearing a lightning onesie.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:16 am 
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Yeeaah I don't think that'd look good either, haha. That's why I was thinking the ghost effect (at least it looks cool) but it might look really awful and horsey on older low-poly models like the vanilla sabers. And also it doesn't exactly say 'lightning'. It's a neat effect but especially since frost mages are getting a riff on it, it's an effect that's gotten pretty common across other classes.

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