Trueshot Lodge and hunter class fantasy conflict

[Pepsi Jedi]

Can't speak for others, but my Orc hunter, 'Hunts' for his people. When there is no war... (Not all that often huh?) he hunts to feed his people. Not to take trophies. he's Beast mastery so he befriends beasts to help him hunt to feed his family and orcish tribe. Put meat in his baby's tummy and his wife's tummy and his own animal companions tummies (He's got quite a few.. lots of mouths to feed.)

In times of war, or when the Horde needs him, he 'hunts' two legged prey (Though some have more than two, but you get my drift) Be they demonic, or alliance or what have you.

He doesn't 'trophy hunt' animals, but he would hang a weapon or bit of armor on the wall from a foe fought in battle.

So he wouldn't have 'animal heads' on the wall. But he wouldn't be 'overly' sentimental about it. In honesty he'd likely think it was silly. "Oh.. you managed to kill a wild animal with a bow or a gun. Real hard. You must be a mighty mighty person indeed. Killing a beast" But he wouldn't rage or rip down the world. he'd just kinda shake his head.

That's just my Orc. My Night Elf hunter would likely be sad that animals had to die to serve someone's vanity, and might be a bit hot under the collar if people were bragging.

Just like different people have different views. So will people in wow.

When I go to the gun range IRL I have to put up with red neck idiots and mall commandos. We all like to shoot guns, but for vastly different reasons. I don't shoot at them at the range or they me. (Sort of our hunter lodge.) We're all "Gun guys" but vastly different in aspect, but at our gathering place (The gun range) We get along more or less. We might not hang out with one another but if someone has a really nice gun, you can walk up to 'Another group" and ask them about it.. even if you think they're idiots.

[SpiritBinder]

For me, I know there are hunters who hunt for sport and trophies, they are around and they exist in wow. So to not have them represented in the Hunters hall would be sad too, we have to make room for all of us. Do I personally like the Trophies, no not really, not my cup of tea. I kind of like the idea of raid bossesque ones.... maybe, but not so much "stuffed Bears" and the likes, I just don't like them in real life either.

That said, I think there are also a LOT of hunter whom love their pets, find a real connection with them and I feel this is not explored enough in the the Hunters lodge. I know there is an area, but it seems a rather devoid and cold encampment, not really like the Stables of all Stables, that is at the stable of all hunters at the hunters Lodge!

I would have loved to have seen our pets celebrated/spoilt/tended, and not just one or two, like a large group (Like Darkmoon Fair). Have them roaming areas of the grounds. (Like our mini pets do in our garrisons) have some fancy stables (Like Dalaran's with flying friends and different beasts) and them interacting with the environment (Like the bears fishing in Grizzly Hills), workers tending to them, etc.

That would make any amount of trophies much more bearable in my opinion.

[Castile]

I would have loved to have seen our pets celebrated/spoilt/tended, and not just one or two, like a large group (Like Darkmoon Fair). Have them roaming areas of the grounds. (Like our mini pets do in our garrisons) have some fancy stables (Like Dalaran's with flying friends and different beasts) and them interacting with the environment (Like the bears fishing in Grizzly Hills), workers tending to them, etc.

That would make any amount of trophies much more bearable in my opinion.

I like this idea too. I really love seeing my mounts in the garrison stables so seeing my pets the same way would be really awesome. Having a core hound chase a saber around or a tallstrider sleeping with a wolf those kinds of things

As for trophies I don't mind them tbh I know farmers here that have Fox skins etc (they are considered pests in Australia) although if it was a tiger or something like that I'd be pretty upset. But it was interesting reading peoples opinions especially actual hunters

[13thmaiden]

I would have loved to have seen our pets celebrated/spoilt/tended, and not just one or two, like a large group (Like Darkmoon Fair). Have them roaming areas of the grounds. (Like our mini pets do in our garrisons) have some fancy stables (Like Dalaran's with flying friends and different beasts) and them interacting with the environment (Like the bears fishing in Grizzly Hills), workers tending to them, etc.

That would make any amount of trophies much more bearable in my opinion.

That would be AWESOME! I love that idea SB!

Man, someone tweet Blizzard to implement that before we have a hunter war between trophies and naturalists. Truthfully, as a hunter lodge for all of us, I think the classes, since we're being made so distinct, should have particular rooms for the particular spec. BM would have animals and critters, might be outside styled or an open pavilion. Ranger-ER I mean Marksman! would have a shooting range area for target practice and sniper practice, maybe the trophy room would be more suited to them. Survival would have an area dedicated to traps and melee weaponry decor and a cool bonfire.

And we should have a treehouse connector.

Because treehouses are awesome, and hunters like trees. Totally perfect reasoning.

[SpiritBinder]

If I had my way, I'd have a cave for the bears, basilisks, spiders and the likes, a rookery with owls and eagles and birds to fly around and roost, a lake for the Waterstiders, Riverbeats, Turtles to use.... etc.etc.etc.

Lets be honest, I'd probably make it a freaking zoo

[Vephriel]

If I had my way, I'd have a cave for the bears, basilisks, spiders and the likes, a rookery with owls and eagles and birds to fly around and roost, a lake for the Waterstiders, Riverbeats, Turtles to use.... etc.etc.etc.

Lets be honest, I'd probably make it a freaking zoo

Every pet family gets their own habitat section.

[Shade]

To those who thought I was talking about paying to poach, I actually was not talking about poachers in my post in that way, but rather those people who pay governments to be allowed to take down a big trophy animal legally-my understanding is that a lot of game, most game I believe, in Africa is legal to take down if you pay enough, get the right permits etc. I was then trying to compare that to poaching, but I see where I was unclear so apologies for that.

I would have loved to have seen our pets celebrated/spoilt/tended, and not just one or two, like a large group (Like Darkmoon Fair). Have them roaming areas of the grounds. (Like our mini pets do in our garrisons) have some fancy stables (Like Dalaran's with flying friends and different beasts) and them interacting with the environment (Like the bears fishing in Grizzly Hills), workers tending to them, etc.

That would make any amount of trophies much more bearable in my opinion.

I like this idea too. I really love seeing my mounts in the garrison stables so seeing my pets the same way would be really awesome. Having a core hound chase a saber around or a tallstrider sleeping with a wolf those kinds of things

This is what I was trying to get to in the end of my uneloquent post. If we have to embrace the trophy side of hunters-why not also embrace the companion to beast side and have a part of the lodge dedicated to our companion animals?

[PrimalTazza]

With the whole dragon thing, just because our character has been through hell and back fighting beside dragons, conversing with them at Wyrmrest, and discovering the whole "they're people just like us!" thing doesn't mean anyone else would; to others, they could just be ignorant, and look at them in the light of "it looks like a beast, moves like a beast, sounds like a beast, I'm going to make a trophy of it." Dragon hunters exist in Warcraft in some form or another, there's two examples that immediately come to mind: dragon hunters in Warcraft 3 during the human campaign that help Arthas, and the dwarf from one of the manga that's hunting Kalecgos. These people could just be ignorant to the fact that dragons are sapient, or in fact just don't care. Worgen and tauren were once able to be skinned, and I imagine MANY people look at worgen as animals to this day in-game, even with a great number of Gilneans being hit with the Curse (if not the majority of them).

So, no, a dragon head doesn't seem out of place and really, it's something my hunter would put over his fireplace while his pet bear rests on a worgen-skin rug with his armor made of naga/murlocs/dragons/gronn/giants/whateverothersapientcreature sits in the corner. A hunter is in many ways a conqueror, no matter how he goes about it... taming a beast is a challenge all in itself, and several things in-game imply this taming process isn't exactly gentle and is quite forceful. Taking that beast afterward and truly befriending it is also a challenge. Then, going hunting to chase your favorite prey with an animal companion at your side is the culmination of it all. The hunter has conquered a beast in heart and spirit, as well as in the heat of battle, and to some hunters, "people" can be just as savage and bestial as any animal.

Any hunter should be able to appreciate, in some way, another hunter's form of prey. Even if you don't see it that way, another hunter may look at your companion striding alongside you as a trophy.

How I see it.

Edit: Seriously though, we have several armor sets with a -stalker prefix that's made of animals, sapients, or imply that we hunt sapients. They often seek to emulate them. Any hunter can easily take that down either road, like "yeah, look at the gronn I killed!" or "in dressing myself in its skin, I have become even closer to it" or something like that. Just like the BM gun or MM bow, most of the gripe (I think) comes down to personal opinion, and Blizzard is saying that MOST hunters take trophies for some reason or another. And let's be real here, if your hunter was a true-blue "totally one with nature" type hunter, would he even be in a cozy lodge, or would he be roughing it out in the forest, sleeping in a hammock he made in thirty minutes and tied up between some trees?

[WingedCaduceus]

It really does come down to the individual, I think. Like most people said, there are trophy hunters, there are one-with-beasts hunters, and there are hunters that see their job as just that: a job. This is probably the way that it's been for a long time, so any tension between people with different views has probably already been hashed out by this point. At least any huge problems - there are bound to be squabbles from time to time. Something like overhearing a civil debate when walking past two npc's would be enough for me.

My hunter is rather nomadic, so decorating really isn't something she even really thinks about. Walking into the lodge and seeing the trophy heads wouldn't set her off or anything - she'd screw her nose up at them at first, but then she'd probably ignore them. She wouldn't raise a stink, because the trophy hunters have as much right to be there as she does. Plus, she's a skinner and leatherworker herself- she's killed her fair share of beasts. What other hunters want to do with their kills is none of her business.

I'll admit, the red dragon head is a little off-putting. There's a time and place for that, and the time has passed. Red dragons are allies now. You don't have to get rid of it, just...don't wave it in everyone's face, please.

[Quiv]

If I had my way, I'd have a cave for the bears, basilisks, spiders and the likes, a rookery with owls and eagles and birds to fly around and roost, a lake for the Waterstiders, Riverbeats, Turtles to use.... etc.etc.etc.

Lets be honest, I'd probably make it a freaking zoo

Every pet family gets their own habitat section.

This would be so awesome.

[13thmaiden]

If I had my way, I'd have a cave for the bears, basilisks, spiders and the likes, a rookery with owls and eagles and birds to fly around and roost, a lake for the Waterstiders, Riverbeats, Turtles to use.... etc.etc.etc.

Lets be honest, I'd probably make it a freaking zoo

Every pet family gets their own habitat section.

I would totally love to live in SB's lodge XD

Though I agree, Tazza is right, when it comes down to it, it's all personal opinion. And alot of hunter armor does attempt to simulate other animals, even sapient ones. And the fact we still have tauren skins floating around unnerves my character because of her past.

I think we wouldn't have as much problem had this been a black dragon head, we've worked with reds so much at this point that it feels weird to have a mount of one. But in truth, there are gonna be dragon hunters, and ARE dragon hunters in WoW so yeah.

Truthfully, my hunter is more of a wild tauren, having grown up pretty much feral after centaurs wiped her tribe out and she had to survive in Maraudon to escape into the Desolace and then make it to and survive in the Feralas. She will hang on the outskirts of the lodge unless she has business within it, otherwise she'll probably stay either near other beasts or out in the woods. The whole garrison thing weirded her out during WoD and she'd stay in the stables sleeping in one of the stalls or go sleep near the fishing pool. XD Her followers thought she was alittle weird.

[Nachtwulf]

I think the most gratuitous example of the 'trophy' mentality is the Firelands tier set. You basically kill a Flamewaker, which is not even a beast or dragon or anything like that; it's a humanoid (albeit half snake)... then you skin it, and WEAR THE TOP OF ITS HEAD AS A HAT.

I mean... you can argue that 'murlocstalker' is a fake murloc head because honestly they don't get that big, but that flamewaker head is totally one you ripped off that boss with the eyepatch. I feel like a dragon head is small beans in comparison, at least ethically speaking.

[Nazja]

I think the most gratuitous example of the 'trophy' mentality is the Firelands tier set. You basically kill a Flamewaker, which is not even a beast or dragon or anything like that; it's a humanoid (albeit half snake)... then you skin it, and WEAR THE TOP OF ITS HEAD AS A HAT.

I mean... you can argue that 'murlocstalker' is a fake murloc head because honestly they don't get that big, but that flamewaker head is totally one you ripped off that boss with the eyepatch. I feel like a dragon head is small beans in comparison, at least ethically speaking.

And this is why I dislike most hunter sets. I don't want my hunter to wear some macabre disguises...

[Quiv]

This thread kinda illustrates my point. We have hunters on both sides of the equation, and both are welcomed at the Lodge. When they are forced together, will they respect each others decisions in harmony or will there be friction? (rhetorical)

[Nachtwulf]

I think the most gratuitous example of the 'trophy' mentality is the Firelands tier set. You basically kill a Flamewaker, which is not even a beast or dragon or anything like that; it's a humanoid (albeit half snake)... then you skin it, and WEAR THE TOP OF ITS HEAD AS A HAT.

I mean... you can argue that 'murlocstalker' is a fake murloc head because honestly they don't get that big, but that flamewaker head is totally one you ripped off that boss with the eyepatch. I feel like a dragon head is small beans in comparison, at least ethically speaking.

And this is why I dislike most hunter sets. I don't want my hunter to wear some macabre disguises...

That's kinda why I like the HFC tier set. It looks really huntery and there's no animal scraps on it. I mean... I dunno, I'm all for a cool skull hat from time to time but when it looks like you painted yourself in glue and rolled around in the leftovers of your kills, that's not okay. I'm glad I finally have a full set of it so I can use it for moggins when the new tech comes out.

[Karathyriel]

Look at Bhando in my signature.

I'm a roleplayer and so it came to this:
Our guild (Troll tribe) prefered to see everyone in green, so green items for mogging.
We all had to pick a Loa to follow and I decided to follow An'Chras, depicted by a raptor.
Taming a green raptor as a pet and having that helmet made for my hunter was a no-brainer then.
(In character, he's also having raptor tattoos!)

It is kind of a trophy worn as a helmet but also a form of showing respect to the Loa Bhando follows.
You think something is wrong with it?
Also, I think Trolls or Tauren are kind of supposed to wear armor like that, just because of their tribal ancestry.

(By the way, don't start looking for An'Chras, it is a made-up Loa from our tribe, not in the official lore.)

[13thmaiden]

The actual wearing of other animals and such does not bother me, as it represents you using and respecting the animal. Which in a sense, could be seen as a trophy itself.

But as with hunters in real life, mount trophies and 'trophy' kills always spark up friction and debate, because everyone is so different in their style.

I can tell you I'm NOT a fan of Nestingway's hunting style, excessive hunting leads to population destruction that while in game is avoided, comes off as callous to myself. I won't say he's not a good hunter, he's a very good hunter in his style. But his overindulgence is the same as hunters of the past that overhunted and sent species into extinction. While I respect his style of hunting, it's not my style of hunting, which could cause friction if brought up.

It will be interesting atleast to see if real players start having arguments over the trophy-heads in game.

[zedxrgal]

13thmaiden - I agree with you but doubt that there'll be any arguing going on over the trophy heads to be honest. The hall isn't the first place in WoW to display a hunted trophy. In Cata there was an entire clan in Twilight Highlands, Dragonmaw Clan to be exact, that had black dragon heads mounted, bodies all over the place etc and I never saw a bit of talk back then over it. Granted the player base has changed since Cata but overall I think scuffles will be in the minority if they happen at all. Most probably won't see the room as bad but that's just my speculation.
Regardless of my personal feelings on hunting and how I was brought up (I'm half American Indian & was taught to hunt /fish young) in game I don't bring that into the game. I too don't agree with Hemet's way of hunting but I sure as heck did his and his group's quests. Gotta get that rep etc. *snerk*

[13thmaiden]

13thmaiden - I agree with you but doubt that there'll be any arguing going on over the trophy heads to be honest. The hall isn't the first place in WoW to display a hunted trophy. In Cata there was an entire clan in Twilight Highlands, Dragonmaw Clan to be exact, that had black dragon heads mounted, bodies all over the place etc and I never saw a bit of talk back then over it. Granted the player base has changed since Cata but overall I think scuffles will be in the minority if they happen at all. Most probably won't see the room as bad but that's just my speculation.
Regardless of my personal feelings on hunting and how I was brought up (I'm half American Indian & was taught to hunt /fish young) in game I don't bring that into the game. I too don't agree with Hemet's way of hunting but I sure as heck did his and his group's quests. Gotta get that rep etc. *snerk*

You and me both! *snortlaugh* Good thing about the game is we don't totally destroy the population, but if he was pulling that crap in real life, oooooh there'd be a fight!

For the most part most won't notice it, but I have heard some vegans on my server that if they're still floating around, if they see it they might get into a hissy fit. But the trade and general chats on our server is pretty much troller-pool, where I throw bread to them and watch them gobble and flop around crazily while I cackle. I'll probably stir up crap just for giggles.

OH! You're native american too? What tribe? Mine's heavily diluted from generations of marrying white people so it's hard to tell I'm from Mohican and Cherokee stock. Scottish and Irish stock has a tendency to try to over power it *laughs* But yeah, I was raised hunting and fishing from a small child too.

[PrimalTazza]

I haven't seen the entirety of the lodge myself, so I ask for a little give.

But like I said before, I really think that those who are closer to druids than anything else wouldn't want to be in the cozy, warm, soft lodge. The closest they'd probably be are the tents set up around the perimeter, roughing it and letting the other hunters, from those who want to display their prowess to the butchers like Hemet, use the lodge for the purpose. The more nature-y and beast mastery-focused areas of the lodge would fit better outside, I think. I remember the description for Legion Marksman (before they added pets back) said something about stalking/watching/learning from beasts to use their tactics in their lone-wolfing. The MM weapon being an elf-bow and the lodge being elven itself could point towards the main building being more MM-focused.

It could also be a way to show diversity and contrast from the usual elven flair. Night elves (usually) don't seem to take many trophies because of their "let nothing go to waste" and certainly their "kill only when absolutely necessary" philosophies. The trophies could be a sort of breaking-away from that, or a way to show that the lodge is for all hunters - were the Legion not literally raining down on our heads, I don't think any traditional night elf would let the things within a mile of the lodge. The trophies individually also show hunter diversity - something simple like a mounted buck's head, to a fully preserved and posed bear for the more Hemet-y of us, to the dragon head that shows there's someone who takes it to the very extreme, a hunter who chases the most dangerous prey. And really, in such a crisis, would you be willing to turn someone of that kind of skill away because of a difference in opinion or would you rather stay (relatively) civil until the war was over and won? I'm ready for the culture clash due to the faction walls (kinda-sorta maybe temporarily) coming down, too.

I think it'll be pretty damn interesting to see what kind of hunters loiter around the lodge proper, how many rough it in the tents outside, and if we'll find any hidden nooks or crannies where some of the truly wild among them have made their den.