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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:17 am 
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That makes sense, Wain. Certainly more than the theory that each spec each being streamlined around a particular concept, since other classes still have utility in multiple specs.

It's all quite baffling.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:36 am 
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Personally, what I don't understand is the way the change is made. Blizzard said at one of pre-Legion Q&A's that they want it to be hard to choose between talents as all of them would be appealing. That is a great concept, in theory. And in some rows for certain class / spec it had worked out with players going 'Damn, I want it all' or picking talents depending on what the fight demands in terms of damage output / utility.

However, in a case of Posthaste and the other talents of the line, why nerf Posthaste instead of buffing the other two talents to make them more appealing or dealing with the core issue of movement speed, including on demand in fights, as well as roots that surrounds Disengage in the first place?

Without those issues dealt with even with Posthaste nerf and the new talent, Posthaste would still be a default choice but leave people with sour taste in their mouths at the nerf of what had worked so well for so long.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:40 pm 
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Wain wrote:
I really don't understand what is going through their heads these days, nor do they spend much time explaining it. I can't help but think there's some long-term goal that we aren't seeing. I don't mean necessarily a goal we'll like or even find enjoyable, but one that fits their business model. Maybe they looked at the future and decided the only way they can give us more things is to take it all away so we can earn it back later. That certainly fits the Zelda-like nature of the more recent game expansions, where everything you work to gain you then lose when the next xpac hits, so you can earn it all back with a different background theme. So maybe they're allocated only so much of our old powers we're allowed back, so they can give a little more back at expansion 8 and more at expansion 9. It certainly feels like they're resenting giving anything back at all and will let only enough back to prevent large-scale abandonment of the class.


While I agree that this makes sense and could be their thought for the game ......................... my concern is whether or not they're shooting themselves in the foot being so tight lipped (sort of) about WHY these horrible nerfs are happening.
From my understanding hunters aren't the only class subject to Blizzards Doomhammer of class talents. People can be closed minded and may not stick it out to see Blizzard grand vision realized. Changes like this can & do make people rage quit. People have already quit simply because some classes have altered so much they refuse to play them.
Sadly hunters could very well be one of these if they continue this path. Lord knows that breaking something even further when it's already broken is NEVER a good idea long term or short. Not all pieces will go back together properly not mater how much glue you use.

TO ME it just feels like Blizzard just flat out does not care about their player base anymore.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:41 pm 
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Lupen202 wrote:
I hate not having CC as well... I just miss my traps so much. Hunters should be a crafty, diverse class; able to handle many different situations. And that used to be the case, but now I feel useless.

I get that traps are survivals thing now, part of Blizzards way of diversifying the specs to fit their 'class fantasy' (as if being melee isn't different enough). But is it too much to ask to just get one or two traps back? I mean you'd think someone with unmatched knowledge on beasts (BM) would know how to trap them as well. I think it'd be pretty damn cool & fitting to get a big bear trap that functions exactly like ice trap did.

And I've found myself in situations where tranquilizing shot would have been nice to have back as well. :/


This. Sure I'm kinda of used to how it plays now, but I still feel so bare. I did my 1st random dungeon last night and felt useless. I could not stop/trap/do anything appart from just Dps. I too even tried to tranq when I saw an enrage, but no...

And going off Lupen's post, I think I'd even settle for a trap that only worked only on beasts, like banish for demons, Bind for elemental, etc... or maybe I'm just getting desperate :|

I know they have made a few DPS tweaks since launch, but any feedback regarding abilities have been all but naught. And what we did get is more nerfs than anything. I don't know, I just thought maybe I was being over sensitive or precocious about changes in general, but I think it's very different this time. I've leveled up, I'm playing, but I've not settled into it like I have previously. Not really sure what to make of it, but I'm not really loving it.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:34 pm 
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All I know is I'm STRUGGLING to continue as I said to 110 with my troll hunter as BM. Like really struggling. I'm a very tenacious person and quitting is normally never an option for me but with lack of traps, reliable cc, Hati, boredom, feeling ineffective and useless was getting to me today.
But with seemingly more nerfs coming it's making it difficult to even want to play a hunter.

Like you all this is still baffling me. Just cannot wrap my brain around why.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:40 pm 
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Hmm, a thought I just had: on one hand, I respect their desire to make the specs have their own identities now. On the other hand, that also means that instead of me liking two or maybe all three of the specs, I now pretty much only like one spec of each class. If that. Before, I liked BM the most and SV was a close second. It didn't bother me to switch between the two. Now, SV is my favorite and the other two bore me. Same with some of the other classes I've tried. I now seem to vastly prefer one over the other two. Maybe that's what they wanted? But then as others have said, leveling alts feels more labor intensive now, so I feel like I'm "stuck" in a particular role even more now than before. I honestly had to choose between my hunter and my priest, and my priest won because I feel like I can at least keep things interesting with Disc. I dunno, I'm probably rambling, but those are just my thoughts.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:02 am 
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I understand the feeling of being stuck with one spec. Honestly, I almost quit the night Legion dropped and I really realized I had to pick a spec that was essentially going to be permanent. Picking the artifact was not fun. It was not exciting. It did not make me interested in my class or spec. It did not make me look forward to ....anything. I felt like a caged rat running on a wheel at that moment. I'm pretty sure that that feeling is not why I've been playing WoW for years, yet Blizzard managed to inspire it. But anyway. I keep thinking about that last minute "Let's Talk" thing that they did. So many poured their hearts out to Blizz about what has been done to hunters. Pages upon pages of heartfelt, articulate pleas. It feels now like a mockery. It feels like they listened just in order to make sure they didn't do want we wanted. This latest nerf is just another nail in the coffin. I understand the thinking that it feels like the dev in charge actually dislikes hunters and wants to cripple us. They've succeeded with the crippling, regardless of intention. As they say, the beatings will continue until morale improves.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:23 pm 
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In a bout of positivity, I will still say that the quest to get Titanstrike is still objectively my favorite out of all of the ones I've done so far. (Even though mechanically, there's only one part you actually NEED to be BM for.)

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Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:00 am 
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This may be a bit of a tangent, but does anybody happen to have a full list of the 7.1 hunter changes? All I can seem to find is "this is what changed in this build, this is what changed two builds ago" and not like... a current "this is all the stuff that's different in 7.1 compared to 7.0.3"

Also, have they fixed any of BM's animation/sound problems yet? The Mac PTR client is in an infinite loop of disconnecting from the PTR servers so I can't test any of that stuff for myself, and that's not likely to make it into patch notes/datamining notes on MMOC or Wowhead or whatnot.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:11 am 
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Trying to sum up the changes I've seen:

General:

Concussive shot now requires Level 4 (was Level 5 before)

Posthaste clears movement impairing effects, and increasing your movement speed by 60% for 5 sec (was 8 seconds, affects both Disengage for MM / BM and Harpoon for SV). There is also a mention of good old Narrow Escape, but so far it hasn't been seen anywhere.

Dash (Increases the duration of Aspect of the Cheetah by 3 seconds.) is changed for Trailblazer (Your movement speed is increased by 30% anytime you have not attacked for 3 seconds.)

_________________________________

PvP Talents:

Viper Sting is now made into an active ability: Stings the target, reducing their healing done by 30% for 6 sec. Viper Sting is removed if the target casts a non-instant cast healing spell. 45 seconds cooldown. (Before Viper Sting was a passive, applied via Cobra Shot / Raptor Strike / Aimed Shot, 12 seconds duration, no CD).

Scorpid Sting is now an active ability: Stings the target, reducing their physical critical strike chance by 50% for 6 sec. 30 seconds CD. (Before it was same as Viper Sting, applied via Cobta Shot / Aimed Shot / Raptor Strike, no CD).

__________________________

Survival:

Carve: A sweeping attack that strikes all enemies in front of you for 270% Physical damage. (was 108%)

Raptor Strike: A vicious slash dealing 300% Physical damage. (was 150%).

___________________________

Surv Talents:

Butchery: Strike all nearby enemies in a flurry of strikes, inflicting 518% Physical damage to each. (Was 384%)

Throwing Axes: Tosses 3 axes at an enemy, each dealing (312.5% of Attack power) Physical damage. (was 250%)

Animal Instincts: Flanking Strike also reduces the remaining cooldown by 3 sec of a random one of the following abilities:

Flanking Strike
Mongoose Bite
Aspect of the Eagle
Harpoon

(Previous effect: Flanking Strike also grants you the instincts of your pet for 7 sec, providing one of the following combat enhancements.

Instincts of the Raptor - Increases Haste by 10%.

Instincts of the Cheetah - Increases Movement Speed by 20%.

Instincts of the Mongoose - Increases Mastery by 10%.)

______

EDIT: More on MMO-Champion


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Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:01 pm 
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Interesting SV changes! I like.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:10 am 
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So, still really nothing to make BM more interesting. I guess that's to be expected, since we're gonna have to wait for the post-Legion patch for any additional major class changes (I really miss the old system sometimes >:().

Any word on audio/visual fixes for Dire Beast/Kill Command/the fact that BM doesn't actually use their weapon for half their abilities?

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:28 am 
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@Xella:

Just beat the training dummy on the PTR for couple minutes as BM - haven't noticed audio change for Kill Command or Dire Beast. For DB the character still puts the bow behind back and does the weird wave / air punch. For Kill Command now the hunter waves at the pet with weapon in hand.

Out of the new stuff: Projection of Mimiron in Class Order Hall now has an option in dialogue to return Hati his previous look.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:03 am 
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Last edited by Banard on Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:08 am 
Xella wrote:
So, still really nothing to make BM more interesting.


I was saying that for months...but then i got my third gold trait....the spec has become a lot more enjoyable.I also have the legendary bracers so timing wild with titan's thunder with dire beast procs is interesting. I am also doing very good DPS with very little effort while my attention to boss mechanics have increase substantially.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:16 pm 
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Shelassa wrote:
Out of the new stuff: Projection of Mimiron in Class Order Hall now has an option in dialogue to return Hati his previous look.


Hey, that's great! :D A quick, easy fix. Sure, it's a cosmetic thing, but since we see Hati all the time, it's nice.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:58 pm 
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Shelassa wrote:
@Xella:

Just beat the training dummy on the PTR for couple minutes as BM - haven't noticed audio change for Kill Command or Dire Beast. For DB the character still puts the bow behind back and does the weird wave / air punch. For Kill Command now the hunter waves at the pet with weapon in hand.

Out of the new stuff: Projection of Mimiron in Class Order Hall now has an option in dialogue to return Hati his previous look.

Well, that's sort of an improvement I guess, haha. Is it the same animation as before, just without the weapon being sheathed? I'd assume so; the datamining sites would have picked up on a new/changed animation. I'm super stoked about the Hati thing though; if he ever gets fixed so that he retains the correct colouration for what version of the weapon you're using I might actually use him (though I greatly dislike his "default" skin and would still prefer murloc hati, lol)

Banard wrote:
Xella wrote:
So, still really nothing to make BM more interesting.


I was saying that for months...but then i got my third gold trait....the spec has become a lot more enjoyable.I also have the legendary bracers so timing wild with titan's thunder with dire beast procs is interesting. I am also doing very good DPS with very little effort while my attention to boss mechanics have increase substantially.

Yeah I'm like... less than 25% from Titan's Thunder or w/e (the actual active gold trait). I don't remember it making a significant difference in enjoyment in beta but maybe now that I've been slogging through live BM for two or three months I'll appreciate it more.

(I am not making the finding out any easier for myself by only doing the bare minimum number of world quests to get my emissary cache, free herbs, and any pet battle achievement progress that's available on any given day, but I'm so done with everything right now that it's hard to work up the effort to slog through more than the bare minimum, especially on any day where my high pop server is not high pop enough for CRZ to not happen, which is apparently every day but Thursday at raid time.)

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:52 pm 
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Xella wrote:
if he ever gets fixed so that he retains the correct colouration for what version of the weapon you're using I might actually use him (though I greatly dislike his "default" skin and would still prefer murloc hati, lol)


I haven't played PTR as BM much, mostly snooping around in Survival and hoping to see an option to turn Windrunning visual off for MM (no luck), but in the time I did Hati was taking his sweet time to be summoned but always came up in right tint (I had not-default, dark Skoll-like) so I will hope that's a sign :D


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Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:07 am 
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MMO-Champion had posted latest spell changes among other things, Marksmanship makes an appearance:

Aimed Shot: A powerful aimed shot that deals [204% of weapon damage] Physical damage. (Previously was 215%)


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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:46 am 
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Shelassa wrote:
MMO-Champion had posted latest spell changes among other things, Marksmanship makes an appearance:

Aimed Shot: A powerful aimed shot that deals [204% of weapon damage] Physical damage. (Previously was 215%)

I honestly don't know what's going on anymore. Stomp for BM and Throwing Axes for SV are so strong no one takes the other talents, so Blizz's solution is to buff those two talents to do even more damage? I keep reading about how MM hunters hate that Aimed Shot hits like a wet noodle, some don't even want to place it on their action bars, and it gets its damage nerfed? I don't even... just... why? :shock:

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