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 Post subject: Reddit AMA
Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:57 pm 
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WoWhead has compiled the list of questions/answers from today's Reddit AMA. There are some to do with Hunters:

Quote:
Marksmanship question here. Is there any chance of Lone Wolf being made base-line and changed to how it worked in WoD? You can use a pet at any time, but you lose the buff while your pet is out. This would free up the first talent row to have a meaningful choice instead of every MM Hunter picking Lone Wolf.

Marksmanship during Legion almost made it to live completely pet-less, as a way to separate their identity more into ranger/sniper so that Beastmaster could have more heft as the ranged pet spec. Beastmaster however landed in a place of having ALLTHEPETS! so the core ranged hunter with a pet was lost in the shuffle and thus Lone Wolf was brought back.

Looking back, I think that losing the pet completely from the spec probably feels like a bridge too far for hunters, even though there is definitely space for the Legolas/Robin Hood archetype in our favorite gun and bow slingers. Honestly I really like your suggestion because it maintains the spec's identity while allowing us to still go into the ranger direction. I call my pet when I'm really in trouble, or just when I'm out for a stroll in the world.



Quote:
Could you tell us anything about your ideas behind Fury of the Eagle (fote). As it stands, while good in cleave, it's being used to fish for procs in single target instead of feeling like an impactful part of our rotation. Possible change to do slightly more damage if it only hits 1 target?

Fury of the Eagle is intended to be a satisfying payoff for getting to high stacks of Mongoose Fury (and doubly so in AOE situations). It's always on our radar when buttons aren't performing as intended, but at the same time we don't mind when players find unexpected uses like fishing for procs as long as it's not creating degenerate gameplay.



Quote:
First Question, is there any plan to update Hunter pets? My second question is, what is the future of BM Hunters?

We don’t have any solid plans currently, but I fully agree that we’re not in a great place right now. I would love to improve the situation. With the power of Battle Rez (Quilen) and Bloodlust (Core Hound), I don’t think I’ve used a different pet on my BM Hunter alt in PvE in a long time.

I think BM Hunters aren’t far from being in a good place. Adding a 2nd charge to Dire Frenzy went a long ways, because I think the future of BM in 8.0 will be Dire Frenzy baseline, with the gameplay of maintaining Dire Frenzy stacks being one of the core parts of the rotation. Another missing part is giving Cobra Shot a reason to exist outside of Bestial Wrath with Killer Cobra. In general, it’s better when spammed spells either push another resource forward (e.g. combo points for Rogues/Feral) or have some procs/triggers attached to them (e.g. Cobra Shot during Bestial Wrath with Killer Cobra, Fireball/Frostbolt procs Hot Streak/Fingers/Brain Freeze for Mages, Shadowbolt generates Soul Shards for Demo). It gives those spells a feeling of a reason to exist. Current thinking – I want to try something like Cobra Shot reduced Kill Command cooldown by 1 second baseline or something along that vein. Right now Cobra Shot admittedly feels a little bit just like you’re bleeding off your resource simply because you don’t want it to cap and be wasted.


P.S. Sorry if someone has already created this thread. I looked around and didn't find one. The rest of the question can be found following the link above.
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 Post subject: Re: Reddit AMA
Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:56 pm 
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I think BM Hunters aren’t far from being in a good place. Adding a 2nd charge to Dire Frenzy went a long ways, because I think the future of BM in 8.0 will be Dire Frenzy baseline, with the gameplay of maintaining Dire Frenzy stacks being one of the core parts of the rotation.

Ew. Ew ew ew ew ew. Dire Frenzy is like, my least favourite BM talent right now (well, no... Legion version of Stampede is my least favourite, but luckily I never have to use that anymore whereas Dire Frenzy is looking like it's king this tier). I don't like guardians and Dire Beast is a horde of guardians, but tracking stacking buff durations is like, the least interesting game mechanic that practically every class has had to deal with. Keeping track of serpent sting was doable but in a raid there are too many buffs on your buff bar to track DF stacks without addons.

At least DF changed to not be an instant focus thing, because wasting all that focus every time I had to press it was awful, but ugh.

I miss ranged survival, and my ability to not care about BM as a result ;__;

(I don't really have a whole lot to say about the other bits; I preferred WoD LW to Legion LW, but I don't like MM's playstyle in either expansion so it doesn't affect me a whole lot either way.)

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 Post subject: Re: Reddit AMA
Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:59 pm 
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Since they mentioned it in the druid section, the NPC DOES exist to use lunarwing flight form for lower level druid alts - she is sitting ON THE ROOF of one of the buildings in Moonglade. I thought she wasn't added at first, so idk if she was hotfixed in or I'm blind, but she's there. My level 100 druids could get the form, but I don't have any sub 100 to test it on.

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 Post subject: Re: Reddit AMA
Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Xella wrote:
Quote:
I think BM Hunters aren’t far from being in a good place. Adding a 2nd charge to Dire Frenzy went a long ways, because I think the future of BM in 8.0 will be Dire Frenzy baseline, with the gameplay of maintaining Dire Frenzy stacks being one of the core parts of the rotation.

Ew. Ew ew ew ew ew. Dire Frenzy is like, my least favourite BM talent right now (well, no... Legion version of Stampede is my least favourite, but luckily I never have to use that anymore whereas Dire Frenzy is looking like it's king this tier). I don't like guardians and Dire Beast is a horde of guardians, but tracking stacking buff durations is like, the least interesting game mechanic that practically every class has had to deal with. Keeping track of serpent sting was doable but in a raid there are too many buffs on your buff bar to track DF stacks without addons.

At least DF changed to not be an instant focus thing, because wasting all that focus every time I had to press it was awful, but ugh.

I miss ranged survival, and my ability to not care about BM as a result ;__;

(I don't really have a whole lot to say about the other bits; I preferred WoD LW to Legion LW, but I don't like MM's playstyle in either expansion so it doesn't affect me a whole lot either way.)


I'm with you about Dire Frenzy. I absolutely HATE DF. I fight with myself right now about using it bc I know it's the better talent right now, but I LOATHE that play style. I actually really like having a ton of Dire Beasts, but even if I wasn't, I still hate the feel of Dire Frenzy. I hope it remains a talent and never baseline. Or if it does, I better be able to talent out of it.

I know it's supposed to be reminiscent of Focus Fire that we used to have, but FF or whatever it was called felt way better than Dire Frenzy stacks. DF just never feels rewarding to me :(

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 Post subject: Re: Reddit AMA
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:50 am 
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So it wasn't just me that felt like the response was from someone who didn't have a really good handle on what Hunters want, while claiming they play one. It seems to have become a theme :( . The class may be becoming competitive as far as dps goes, but for many people here that isn't the issue and it's more about it being enjoyable, which is most certainly is not for so many of us. Thank gods for cool pets, as they've been our only saving grace.

Honestly, the only thing they could have done in the AMA that I would have had any respect for is if they'd admitted they were arrogant in thinking they could recode all classes in one expansion cycle, that they fucked up badly, and they apologized for posioning everyone's experience of what is otherwise a great xpac with a recode nobody wanted. But that was never going to happen.

Yes, I'm still that annoyed.

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 Post subject: Re: Reddit AMA
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:59 am 
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I'm glad they're thinking about a different approach to the Lone Wolf talent for MM. Currently, for any sort of challenging content, minus PvP for sac and mw, I have to go without a pet because I lose just that much DPS in all situations. Trade off is not worth it, really. In my opinion, the whole first row of MM talents is.... unsatisfying, to say the least. If Careful Aim (Aimed Shot, Arcane Shot, Marked Shot, and Multi-Shot have 20% increased critical strike chance against targets above 80% Health, and those critical strikes deal an additional 30% damage over 8 sec.) did not increase Crit chance and flatly provided bleed on crits throughout the fight, there might have been a worthy opponent to LW, but as of now the Lone Wolf talent is overturned (and intentionally so!).

Sorta sad that they did not mention anything about MM class design - would have liked to see pretty much anything. The stance on Vulnerable which is almost a glorified Hunter's Mark at this point, why incorporating original Survival talents into MM failed so badly and what they're going to do about it, but alas. Same with pets - wasn't Muffinus hinting at something to do with pets way back? Like, we know that half the families don't even have an ability of their own and consider it? Disappointing to see that they're still at the drawing board with it.

Quote:
Jeremy Feasel
@Muffinus
Thanks to all of the Hunters for their feedback on pet abilities. Your voices have been heard. No ETA on fixes, but there is a plan. Thanks!
6:49 PM - 1 Dec 2016


https://twitter.com/Muffinus/status/804517766568910848

I like Dire Frenzy and I sort of like the idea of BM juggling buffs for the pet and themselves (sorta like old Focus Fire), but the real question is - how would it look mechanically. I liked the idea of two pets and WoD-time Dire Beast and we've seen where it came to.

Survival's answer was pretty much "There, there" :?

_______________

Another question / answer about Hunters:

Quote:
I am here as a representative of the Female Blood Elf Hunter community. Our bow firing animation has been bugged for going on 7 years. We are a race of born archers and the fact that we fire bows in a glitched fashion is appalling! Even our great Warchief Sylvanas Windrunner fires her bow like this! It has to be known, she fires it differently in cinematics. Please fix it!

Blood Elf Female's as of 7.2 use their BC animations, it was part of the Hunter visual update. They do fire with the opposite foot forward from most of the races, but for now we decided to keep them in their original state.


Last edited by Shelassa on Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reddit AMA
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:54 am 
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Continuation of female Blood Elf animation thing (which I find atrocious):

Quote:
Did you see what I was talking about in the video? (Not being sarcastic, just making sure we're on the same page)
Her animation should be very similar to this: https://youtu.be/SXZfrlskkW8?t=20s
If not, that is a bug and I will definitely dig into it


To which the original poster also submitted a couple of pictures:
https://imgur.com/uylkby9
https://i.imgur.com/59hrxq0.gifv

Another brought up concern was bowstring cutting through the character:
http://imgur.com/a/yp5Z1


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 Post subject: Re: Reddit AMA
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:19 am 
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Them specifically mentioning battle res as if it's a negative worries me. So many useful petskills have been removed already.
I really wish we could just pick the pet skill like we pick the pet spec. There are so many pets I just don't bother with because they don't get anything useful.


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 Post subject: Re: Reddit AMA
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:28 pm 
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Wain wrote:
So it wasn't just me that felt like the response was from someone who didn't have a really good handle on what Hunters want, while claiming they play one.


Yeah tbh, I felt like that comment about playing one was just thrown in there randomly. I sincerely doubt any of them play Hunter, or at least not BM hunter. If they did, I feel like we wouldn't have spent a year (since beta) complaining about the pet UI/targeting/pathing issues, Hati issues (ALL OF THEM), and the entire 7.1 PTR til 7.2.5 explaining why the legendary shoulders should've been made baseline. Like the fact they said 'oh we play Hunter!' made me think of those kind of scenarios:

"How was school today?"

"I didn't break the window, I swear!"

Yeah, if they actually played Hunter, they wouldn't have let these issues go on. So I'm calling bogus on that comment lol

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 Post subject: Re: Reddit AMA
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:47 am 
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* fidgets * I've re-read the Hunter-oriented answers after a break to let the feelings settle, and I'm disappointed all over again :D
The power of my butthurt is almost strong enough to transfer the united armies of Azeroth over to Argus without the Sargerite Keystone.

First and foremost, BM. While I think the idea with Cobra Shot and its interaction with Kill Command is solid, the wording about 8.0 feels like the current abomination design of a spec will press on into the next expansion. This is quite unsettling. The answer does not mention whether we go full Zookeeper or remain with one trusty companion, only time will tell. The AMA states:

Quote:
BM Hunters aren't far from being in a good place.


Hmnn... I think I have heard this line somewhere before. Oh, yeah. Legion class / specs previews, Hunter edition. To quote the part about BM:

Quote:
Beast Masters were already in a good place overall.


At that, it is quite obvious that MoP/WoD BM and Legion BM have a world of difference (and years of class design) laying between them. I'm baffled as to why Blizzard is trying to re-invent the wheel if BM was already in a good place overall, then they made it a worse place, and now they're trying to claw back to what was from another direction. It is seen, for example, in Cobra Shot design philosophy changing again. The AMA quote:

Quote:
Another missing part is giving Cobra Shot a reason to exist outside of Bestial Wrath with Killer Cobra. In general, it's better when spammed spells either push another resource forward or have some procs/triggers attached to them. Right now Cobra Shot admittedly feels a little bit just like you're bleeding off your resource simply because you don't want it to cap and be wasted.


Hmn. Interesting. So, spammed abilities feel much better when they push resource. Sort of like the old Cobra Shot did, then? And it would be nice if BMs had a reason to use it more? Almost like, I dunno, filling up next to all free moments in combat to not have the terrible waiting for proc game?

Back to the Legion preview!

Quote:
Cobra Shot filled all of your free moments in combat, leaving no time for managing your pet, which should be a defining characteristic of Beast Masters.


Time to get some coffee to not burn the chair over MM and Surv :D


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 Post subject: Re: Reddit AMA
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:00 pm 
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Wain wrote:
So it wasn't just me that felt like the response was from someone who didn't have a really good handle on what Hunters want, while claiming they play one. It seems to have become a theme :( . The class may be becoming competitive as far as dps goes, but for many people here that isn't the issue and it's more about it being enjoyable, which is most certainly is not for so many of us. Thank gods for cool pets, as they've been our only saving grace.

Honestly, the only thing they could have done in the AMA that I would have had any respect for is if they'd admitted they were arrogant in thinking they could recode all classes in one expansion cycle, that they fucked up badly, and they apologized for posioning everyone's experience of what is otherwise a great xpac with a recode nobody wanted. But that was never going to happen.

Yes, I'm still that annoyed.



While I do like (not love, like) playing sv right now (and mm 'meme build' too kinda), this (in bold) is pretty much my issue. I have had fun with every iteration of Boomkin since MoP when I joined. I don't think Boomie's are perfect, but I consistently have fun playing mine. The only reason I have so many hunters is the varieties of pets I can grab and the rather open-endedness of hunter 'lore', but these things are largely aesthetic and don't translate into good combat mechanics and stuff. That said, I don't really do hunter stuff at a high skill level and never really have, so I can't really be more specific - just give my general feelings. I've never enjoyed BM since I started playing. I only play BM on alts for exotic pets. I'd like to actually like it, one day.

All that said, even if I can't give detailed feedback, lots of people do, and it makes me terribly sad to see my peers so ignored. I think the dev team has made strides in better communication, but at the same time other issues just go untouched, even ones that aren't controversial. It's frustrating.

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 Post subject: Re: Reddit AMA
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:05 pm 
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mpd_84 wrote:
Them specifically mentioning battle res as if it's a negative worries me. So many useful petskills have been removed already.
I really wish we could just pick the pet skill like we pick the pet spec. There are so many pets I just don't bother with because they don't get anything useful.


Yeah, that concerns me too. I have a feeling we will see those two abilities gone for hunters. They were a bit more balanced when pets could bring lots of other buffs, but now that they can't, brez and lust are just... really good. I'm going to guess they don't see hunters as a class that should inherently have those abilities and don't want to just give them to a ton of pets so we see more than core hounds and quilen. This is all conjecture though, of course.

I'm so sad that so many pets are without a special ability right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Reddit AMA
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:24 pm 
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Funk wrote:
mpd_84 wrote:
Them specifically mentioning battle res as if it's a negative worries me. So many useful petskills have been removed already.
I really wish we could just pick the pet skill like we pick the pet spec. There are so many pets I just don't bother with because they don't get anything useful.


Yeah, that concerns me too. I have a feeling we will see those two abilities gone for hunters. They were a bit more balanced when pets could bring lots of other buffs, but now that they can't, brez and lust are just... really good. I'm going to guess they don't see hunters as a class that should inherently have those abilities and don't want to just give them to a ton of pets so we see more than core hounds and quilen. This is all conjecture though, of course.

I'm so sad that so many pets are without a special ability right now.


A big part of hunters having any group utility right now is our flexibility in what buffs or effects we can bring- The obviously preferable answer would be to expand the currently available options (Lust, Brez, MS, etc.) across the rest of the available families, instead of removing anything.

I am afraid that we'll end up losing something, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Reddit AMA
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:41 pm 
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The possibility of losing what little pet utility we have is scary :\

I hope the AMA post was not negative ("gotta prune Core Hounds / Quillens so Hunters will stop whining about other pets being useless"), but positive ("gotta buff other pets so Hunters would stop whining about Core Hounds and Quillen being only useful pets").


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 Post subject: Re: Reddit AMA
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:06 pm 
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Honestly? At this point I would take either, just as long as it's consistent. If I bring zero utility to a raid (because misdirect as BM is so utterly worthless), so be it. I'm tired of core hounds and nether rays and cranes and moths and quilen. I want to be able to use my sporebat and not get yelled at because the other hunter (who actually has a nether ray out because he genuinely enjoys nether rays) forgot to hero on pull.

I would obviously prefer to keep the utility, but pet utility that's tied to specific types of pets will always be inherently unbalanced and will favour some types of pets over others. Not in every situation, but you'll still find yourself choosing pets based on utility vs personal preference.

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 Post subject: Re: Reddit AMA
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:01 pm 
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To be clear, I too do not like seeing such disparity in the utility of pets. I just have a feeling the solution will be to gut them all rather than actually add some extra spells for pets without any. Maybe I'm just jaded.

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 Post subject: Re: Reddit AMA
Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:51 pm 
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#GIVEWOLVESLUST

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 Post subject: Re: Reddit AMA
Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:31 am 
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Ha. I'm the one who asked about the female BE bow animation. The response was very disappointing. They pretty much said it was fixed. It's not. At all. My salt level on that subject is overflowing.


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