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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:09 pm 
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I get what you're saying, but they're made with more of a stylized art direction. Blizzard has realized it's the way to go to prevent everything from looking extremely dated in just a few years.

So instead of getting something that is realistic for its time, and then obsolete in two years, you get a more watercolored, cartoonish version that should look fine for an indefinite amount of time.

It might take some getting used to, but like it or not, that's the art direction we are headed in.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:58 pm 
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I understand, but I think some of the new models are more ‘realistic’ in style than the old. And then some are the reverse. The problem for me is when they’re swapped. Like spiders that were originally bright and cartoony are now subdued and earthy, while hyenas that had natural tones and textures are being replaced by ones that look like they fell into vats of paint. I don’t have a problem with any of these as new creatures, but I’m a bit more concerned when they’re replacements.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:10 pm 
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I definitely agree that the updated color variants should at least be recognizable as their predecessors. We should wait for just a few more builds, until it seems that all npcs are fully "replaced", and then make polite but firm requests to tweak some of the skins a little. (Zaricotl, crystal spider, etc)

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:21 pm 
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Equeon wrote:
I definitely agree that the updated color variants should at least be recognizable as their predecessors. We should wait for just a few more builds, until it seems that all npcs are fully "replaced", and then make polite but firm requests to tweak some of the skins a little. (Zaricotl, crystal spider, etc)


This. The old models haven't been entirely replaced yet, and Blizz may have plans concerning the new models. It is just best to wait for now and see what happens.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:28 pm 
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Quiv offered on another thread to compile a list of swaps that are showing up on Wowhead so we can keep an eye on them, and maybe lobby for tweaks to the least similar replacements.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:34 pm 
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Wain wrote:
Quiv offered on another thread to compile a list of swaps that are showing up on Wowhead so we can keep an eye on them, and maybe lobby for tweaks to the least similar replacements.


Aye, I saw that. Kind of him to do that :) It'll be interesting to see how many replacements will be tweaked by Blizz on their own.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:55 pm 
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Is it weird I'm still holding out hope they update Tallstriders?


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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:07 am 
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Myzou wrote:
Is it weird I'm still holding out hope they update Tallstriders?

Not weird at all, but it’s not looking that likely I guess :(. Are there any tallstriders in the new zones? If not, they may put it off.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:19 am 
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I don't think there are any Tallstriders in any of the new zones, but Blizz may go ahead and update them sometime soon anyway. They seem rather determined to update all of the old models :)


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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:58 am 
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Myzou wrote:
Is it weird I'm still holding out hope they update Tallstriders?

Nope. They were my first choice for a model update, hyenas second. I just kind of gave up when I didn't see them in the initial datamining, but I guess we can hope for a later build with beautiful new models!

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:01 am 
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Equeon wrote:
Myzou wrote:
Is it weird I'm still holding out hope they update Tallstriders?

Nope. They were my first choice for a model update, hyenas second. I just kind of gave up when I didn't see them in the initial datamining, but I guess we can hope for a later build with beautiful new models!

I would love to see a tallstrider revamp, I'm just worried my beloved purple one will get the dull, diluted treatment that a lot of the vivid colours ended up with in revamps. T-T Hopefully if/when they do update them it'll be a faithful artist.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:31 am 
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I would like to see some work on the sabers. Hopefully sticking to the body styles that make them different than the mana saber body/face or the Pandarian Tigers, but upgrading them from their boxy bodies.
Lynx.... they need help as well.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:19 pm 
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I'd love to see an updated tallstrider, they were one of my favorites when I first started playing the game but I gave up on them, because they became so dated in appearance.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:31 am 
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One thing is starting to concern me, and that's that the new minespiders have the same issue as the flame scorpion in that one of their legs is incorrectly skinned, so its movements on it are really janky. If you have the flame scorpion, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

I thought this was just a first build thing, but so far, I haven't seen it changed. Can be that WoWhead hasn't updated the viewer and it's fixed ingame, but WoWhead's old previews of the bee and brutosaur mount that had no skeleton back when their articles were created were also updated across the board when they finally did, so I think the problem is still there.

The scorpid has not yet been fixed, so I'm worried that the minespiders might get the same issue.

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And even the new tarantula model, while great, has its issues in that in its idle animation, one of its chelicerae slowly moves up, then at the end of the idle animation, it snaps back into the position because it's starting at frame 1 again. This.. uh - doesn't seem intentional. Seems like they should both be still in the idle animation.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:04 am 
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Qraljar wrote:
And even the new tarantula model, while great, has its issues in that in its idle animation, one of its chelicerae slowly moves up, then at the end of the idle animation, it snaps back into the position because it's starting at frame 1 again. This.. uh - doesn't seem intentional. Seems like they should both be still in the idle animation.

I can confirm that this happens even with current day tarantulas and has likely been around since they were made. :( It'll probably be more noticeable on the nice new models though. ><

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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:14 am 
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Vephriel wrote:
Qraljar wrote:
And even the new tarantula model, while great, has its issues in that in its idle animation, one of its chelicerae slowly moves up, then at the end of the idle animation, it snaps back into the position because it's starting at frame 1 again. This.. uh - doesn't seem intentional. Seems like they should both be still in the idle animation.

I can confirm that this happens even with current day tarantulas and has likely been around since they were made. :( It'll probably be more noticeable on the nice new models though. ><

Ugh - then the chances of that being fixed are even more slim than they already were.

While it would probably only require the removal of a stray keyframe in their idle loop. It will really look irksome if it isn't fixed.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:39 am 
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It's not that it's incorrectly skinned, it's that it's incorrectly rigged. For some reason the rig is broken on the mesh and that bone in the rig was/is not animated. There's tons of incorrect rigging on various models in game. Invincible/Tyriel's Charger/Celestial Steed have a broken front right hoof when flying. It bends up awkwardly. Oddly enough, that issue is fixed on the Hearthsteed which uses the same rig. So that is odd to me that they'd not go back and retroactively fix it on other models based on that rigging skeleton. The Wyvern's back left paw is twisted awkwardly and has been forever. More noticeable on newer models. I want to say it's just accidental herp-a-derps during the rigging and animation process that's not been noticed or just put on the back burner.



-On a side note, I would REALLY like to address something that's been bothering me lately and that's flinging the term 'lazy' when referring to the artists. Can we not do that? Considering how many models they've been told to be cranking out lately, they are not lazy at all. It could be any number of reasons why things are not matching up. It could be there are more skins lined up that need to be made. It could be that the art director has decided not to use the old colors. Just because something gets made does not mean that it doesn't have to pass approval from the dev in charge of all of these artists. It actually takes a hell of a lot of time to make the models and skin them. Then there is time crunches on top of everything else. We do not know why things are not 100% true to the old colors, but calling the artists 'lazy' because they don't is extremely negative for no good reason.

When dealing with rigs and animations, sometimes things break in unintentional ways after it's been uploaded. Even if everything was right before then. What we can do in that area is actually make a running list of what is broken and on which models and bring it to the attention whatever art devs we can get. They may not even realize things broke after the fact. Even patches can break things.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:24 am 
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Thwip wrote:
-On a side note, I would REALLY like to address something that's been bothering me lately and that's flinging the term 'lazy' when referring to the artists. Can we not do that? Considering how many models they've been told to be cranking out lately, they are not lazy at all. It could be any number of reasons why things are not matching up.

I agree, lazy is a term that is unfair on staff that are probably heavily overworked. I think it's fair to be critical of art that we feel doesn't suit the application, but as you say it could be for a number of reasons. I'm sure that artists do economize and cut corners on some of the art, but the most likely reason for that is that they have a lot to get through, and have to justify the cost/benefit to management - they don't get to perfect things like they would with personal art.

I don't think that should stop us lobbying for better art when we feel it's not up to par, because it's the only way to make the management reconsider how much time is allocated to it. They may not, but it's still all we can do.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:31 am 
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Thwip wrote:
It's not that it's incorrectly skinned, it's that it's incorrectly rigged. For some reason the rig is broken on the mesh and that bone in the rig was/is not animated. There's tons of incorrect rigging on various models in game. Invincible/Tyriel's Charger/Celestial Steed have a broken front right hoof when flying. It bends up awkwardly. Oddly enough, that issue is fixed on the Hearthsteed which uses the same rig. So that is odd to me that they'd not go back and retroactively fix it on other models based on that rigging skeleton. The Wyvern's back left paw is twisted awkwardly and has been forever. More noticeable on newer models. I want to say it's just accidental herp-a-derps during the rigging and animation process that's not been noticed or just put on the back burner.


For the tarantula, I'm fairly sure it's just a stray keyframe that they never noticed or never took out before release.

For the minespider, are you sure? It looks like the rig is fine, but the particular vertices of the leg that is borked are weighted improperly. Same with the fire scorpion's legs.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:27 am 
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Wain wrote:
Thwip wrote:
-On a side note, I would REALLY like to address something that's been bothering me lately and that's flinging the term 'lazy' when referring to the artists. Can we not do that? Considering how many models they've been told to be cranking out lately, they are not lazy at all. It could be any number of reasons why things are not matching up.

I agree, lazy is a term that is unfair on staff that are probably heavily overworked. I think it's fair to be critical of art that we feel doesn't suit the application, but as you say it could be for a number of reasons. I'm sure that artists do economize and cut corners on some of the art, but the most likely reason for that is that they have a lot to get through, and have to justify the cost/benefit to management - they don't get to perfect things like they would with personal art.

I don't think that should stop us lobbying for better art when we feel it's not up to par, because it's the only way to make the management reconsider how much time is allocated to it. They may not, but it's still all we can do.


I'm not saying we can't be critical. I'm saying don't call them lazy simply because things aren't 100% with what we're expecting on the consumer side. There's a giant difference between using constructive criticism and destructive criticism. Saying they're lazy is destructive criticism. Pointing out what's wrong and what can be done to fix things to suit what they used to be is more constructive. We as a community need to remember that. These people are the farthest thing from lazy. It's their job. They do art everyday.

Take for example people saying the Hyena skins are oversaturated. That's just stating that they are. They're not saying what can be done to fix it. My opinion is not that the color is over saturated, that it's the shading that needs to be darkened so that it brings the colors down to a less bring level and given highlights to even it out. It's the bright color against the dark shades with it that's really making it pop hard. It's mostly on the red and yellow because those are vivid colors. As well as going in and editing some of the colors to look closer to the originals like the red, again.

Karkin's diamond model simply needs some harsher highlights to look more like the original coloration. I'm also curious if it will have shine on it like the Cloud Serpents do with material textures overlayed.

Pointing out discrepancies are fine. Constructive criticism is fine. I'm not in any way saying we can't point at something and give an opinion. Do we know for sure how many of these are true 1 to 1 replacements yet? Some of them obviously are and trying to get the original crystal spider look where it was more light aqua on the legs is great! Or get the red spider to be just as vivid as the parrots. I like the older color on some of those. I'm not 100% sure the brown is a true replacement for the white wind serpent, however. Nor the Dark Red Stegodon. Some of them are so far off that I'm curious if we're even comparing them to the right things yet since it's still alpha and they're cranking things out on a daily basis.


Also, Qraljar, I did mean the mine spider! Sorry for not clarifying. When someone says 'skin', I immediately think of the texture as that's what I refer to as the skin for mesh models. The mesh itself also looks fine. I think the animation bone on the tip of the foot lost it's animation weighting somewhere along the line as the animation is running, save that one spot. That does absolutely mean the mesh weights are broken somewhere or not even placed properly. I still think it's a rig issue since the weight painting goes with the rig. Does it do that in it's idle animations as well? Or just the running/walking ones? I'd actually love to get a list set up with all the broken animations in game so we can tweet Chris R. about them and see if we can bring some attention to it.

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