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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:14 am 
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Illustrious Master Hunter
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Blizz themselves hasn't said anything yet. But according to wowhead, the data specifically suggests that each pet family has a set spec that cannot be changed. Of course, it is possible that this is just partial info and the rest isn't in yet, or Blizz has other plans, but I can't imagine how they could tie into this.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:22 am 
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Master Hunter
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Blizz hasn't said anything yet, but according to what WoWhead said, they actually went and tamed the pets on the Alpha to learn this data/info. So for what it's worth, it is 'live on the Alpha' as of the last build.

Quote:
We have tamed all different families on Alpha to test which specialization and abilities each family had and the results are in the table below.


This still could be some mid-way change or something, but I am really doubting it. Or maybe I'm just doubtful. Either way, not impressed by this 'lock in'. I didn't miss this spec-locked family stuff when we finally got rid of it.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:32 am 
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Journeyman Hunter
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This is really terrible, I hope it will change! What were they thinking? :shock:

It looks like the classic "Fun detected, fun removed" by Blizzard :(

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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:45 am 
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Grand Master Hunter
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Wain wrote:
Has anyone official confirmed this yet? I can’t help hoping that all we’re seeing is an intermediate stage of redevelopment and the spec changing ability is being rewritten.

If not, this is really fucking terrible. Legion demonstrated that the class designers currently assigned to hunters didn’t really understand the class or have the time to fix their mess (no looking back, right?). BfA better not continue that trend or it’s gloves off.

agreed

we tolerated long enough having our pets' abilities taken away, having our utilities taken away, and now this?

Seems like the person who is handling hunter has almost zero clues about what made wow hunter fun.

If this change goes live, ALL PETS should produce same dps and have survivability like blood of rhino.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:49 am 
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Illustrious Master Hunter
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Well, they are giving utilities and abilities back. They aren't the same ones as before, but better than nothing. Even still, I really hope that this was some old idea or an incomplete one.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:16 am 
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Artisan Hunter
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Oh wow. Can't wait to read/hear what the thinking is behind the changes.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:03 am 
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I hope it is some kind of failure, error or a momentary pot, it is something superhorrible that back ...


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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:10 am 
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What I'm really confused about is how are Dragonhawks tenacity? Blizzard, does that look like a tanking pet to you?

I'm hoping these notes aren't finalised, because some of the changes really don't make sense at all. Some do, like the Raptors becoming cunning by default. That makes sense, considering they're supposed to be incredibly intelligent creatures. But tanking Dragonhawks? If a boss even sneezes in the direction of a Dragonhawk, it's going to blown halfway across the room.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:28 am 
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I'm not happy about this, at all. Crossing my fingers that it doesn't make it to live.

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It's like daring someone to go insult a bunch of kindly old nuns. You'll wind up going back to your friends with a story about how they smiled at your insults and tried to give you cookies, or something.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:44 am 
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Bloody hell, this is awful! I want to know the reasoning and if whoever had the idea can be talked out of it. What a load of kodo dung. I had hoped that the hunter team for BFA would have a dang clue this time, but we aren't so lucky it seems.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:53 am 
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Before anyone says "It's only alpha, things will surely change", keep in mind that now is the best time to try and get this fixed. We need to nip this in the bud at a stage where things can actually be done, before they get set in stone. If we idly stand by without saying anything, they'll just do whatever they want and nothing will get solved.

We need to speak up now, while there's still time. This change would be a massive step back on Blizzard's part, if it were to go through.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Illustrious Master Hunter
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Ickabob wrote:
Before anyone says "It's only alpha, things will surely change", keep in mind that now is the best time to try and get this fixed. We need to nip this in the bud at a stage where things can actually be done, before they get set in stone. If we idly stand by without saying anything, they'll just do whatever they want and nothing will get solved.

We need to speak up now, while there's still time. This change would be a massive step back on Blizzard's part, if it were to go through.


I completely agree, though some feel as though saying something won't make a different, and this feeling is due to what happened with feedback during Legion. Tons of feedback was sent in concerning the Hunter specs (namely Beast Mastery) and Pet Families, and very little was done. Hopefully that won't be the case this time around, and hopefully there is a lot more to all of this.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:31 pm 
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Wowhead suggested they may have locked pets to spec so moth/crane/quillen can't have both Bloodlust (from Ferocity) and Battle Rez (from the family ability). I have looked through the abilities and don't see any other combinations that struck me as "unfair." I don't see why those two are particularly powerful together, but I suppose putting them on one family/spec could make them mandatory in certain situations and no one wants that. No player class has those two naturally.

This leads me to believe the problem isn't with family abilities and pet specs. The problem is this design direction of tying big abilities (mainly Bloodlust) to a spec. so I have to wonder:

Is having powerful abilities like Bloodlust tied to spec a good idea?

Since this is the result, I say no its not. I want specs to have unique abilities and flavor, but lust is too big. This leads me to think that the big abilities like lust and rez need to be rethought. I don't think tying them to a spec (and therefore forcing pets into a spec) is a good idea. I think the pet talent idea is the better solution, even if its only one row where we choose one of the big abilities.

This would give all pets access to rez and lust, but I don't see the big deal with having a devilsaur rez you over a crane. It could be a generic ability like they did with calling Bloodlust "primal rage."

Though to be completely honest, I didn't see a big deal with tying lust and rez to specific families anyway. They were already on an exotic and non-exotic family, and we have 5 call pet slots. We can have them if needed. This part of the changes strikes me as trying to fix something that isn't necessarily broken. I'm glad families got some normal abilities back (although they are woefully boring), but the spec/big ability change was unnecessary.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:33 pm 
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Master Hunter
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Valnaaros wrote:
Ickabob wrote:
Before anyone says "It's only alpha, things will surely change", keep in mind that now is the best time to try and get this fixed. We need to nip this in the bud at a stage where things can actually be done, before they get set in stone. If we idly stand by without saying anything, they'll just do whatever they want and nothing will get solved.

We need to speak up now, while there's still time. This change would be a massive step back on Blizzard's part, if it were to go through.


I completely agree, though some feel as though saying something won't make a different, and this feeling is due to what happened with feedback during Legion. Tons of feedback was sent in concerning the Hunter specs (namely Beast Mastery) and Pet Families, and very little was done. Hopefully that won't be the case this time around, and hopefully there is a lot more to all of this.

Thirded. People saying "nothing's set in stone, don't freak out!" are missing the point. Now is the time to freak out with overwhelmingly negative sentiment and get Blizzard to fix this mess.

I already tweeted @ Muffinus, not sure who else would be best to hear our criticism.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:40 pm 
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I've been playing elder scrolls online since black Friday but had planned to reactivate my warcraft account prior to BFA in order to catch up. If this stays I will definitely not be returning to the game until it's fixed!


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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:47 pm 
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Quote:
@WarcraftDevs @Muffinus @Celestalon 12yr WoW vet here, 7 as hunter. If this pet change goes to BFA I will be skipping BFA until it is fixed. It's a huge step backwards! I love being able to use w/e spec w/e pet combo I want, please don't put this through!!!! /beg /plead /sob


My tweet :(


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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:17 pm 
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After how well they listened to feedback about Legion, I am not optimistic. From what has been said, this doesn't sound like a mistake. It sounds like more people who don't understand hunters and aren't going to listen because they think they know best. Maybe, after 8 years of being a hunter, I need to hang up my bow. Maybe I need to just give up and find a new main this time. I held on for Legion, but this crap is worse than all the bullshit they did then. They aren't going to listen to us.

Looking at this list, they're effectively taking away some of my most loved pets. I don't pvp, so have no reason to ever use a cunning pet. Yet there go my fox, goat, rodent, hyena and warpie. Thanks Blizz, that's awesome. Really, really great.

So what other classes are looking good for BFA? I give up.

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Last edited by Teigan on Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:20 pm 
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Apprentice Hunter
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Don't drag Celestalon into this. Celestalon is part of Hearthstone.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:21 pm 
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Journeyman Hunter
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Krysteena wrote:
What I'm really confused about is how are Dragonhawks tenacity? Blizzard, does that look like a tanking pet to you?


What makes even less sense is the skill combinations. The previous changes fixed a lot of things like a boar with the damage mitigation being able to be used as a tank pet. Now that's gone again, and with the shuffle, there's so many ferocity pets with damage mitigation.. and then there's tenacity pets with slows and magic/enrage removals..

:roll:

Looking over the wowhead list.. there's probably 60 percent of the pets that have skills mixes that don't match their role.

What a huge mess.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:22 pm 
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Journeyman Hunter
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Tomb wrote:
Don't drag Celestalon into this. Celestalon is part of Hearthstone.


True.. but he was a terrible terrible game dev.. glad he's off WoW.


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