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 Post subject: Mogu Allied Race Theory
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:34 am 
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With the allied races pretty much mirroring each race leads me to believe the Pandaren allied race can go either way of these two options.

1.) With the Pandaren being neutral we could get the Hozen for the Horde, Jinyu for the Alliance with unique stories as the Horde and alliance both bring war back to Pandaria to lay claims under each other's noses.

2.) The Pandaren on the Alliance side could be the Furbolg despite having no links to them but Furbolgs are in the alliance already. While the Horde gets Mogu, it would be interesting for the Warchief, Sylvanas to come to the Mogu'shan Vaults and utilize the soul engine thing here which was the last boss in the raid Will of the Emperor to construct new Mogu which could in turn be where new Mogu players start out at level 20 awakening after being created and perhaps Lorewalker Cho could be the quest givers to build up the new Mogu and to understand their place in the Horde perhaps.

Mogu Classes:
    Warrior
    Mage
    Hunter
    Warlock
    Shaman
    Maybe Druid since Lu'lin from ToT uses druidish spells

Jokes:
    The Horde? An imperialistic bunch, we got talking cows, squishable greedy little things, and even weird looking Mogu that call themselves orcs. My kind of people! (The Mogu misunderstands how the Horde works and what not.)
    Hm... why are there only two to a couple? Does the Horde not believe in Polygamy?
    I like my women like I like my hands, having two and having experience in pleasing.
    You know Lei Shen ruled with a iron fist and a lightning whip, it's ironic.... I am afraid of thunder.
    Everyone says theres a skeleton in the closet, however in Lei Shen's case it was a Titan Watcher Ra-Den.
    You know, the Mogu'shan Vaults has a secret hall I used to venture into in my youth. There were many Mogu,
    Men, women, eh.... Yak..... eh perhaps this was why it was hidden. (Clears throat)
    The Shado-Pan..... it's... it's just shadow and Pandaren put together.... how.... unoriginal.
    You know these ugly Mogu you call Orcs do get quite mad every time one asks where are their curly eyebrows and their whiskers.

Mogu Racial Mount:
    Crackling Quilin

Mogu Racial:

Gift of Lei Shen
    The will of the Thunder King enhances the mogu's attacks with X nature damage for 15 seconds. 1 minute cool down.

Titanforged:
    When your health drops below 50%, the Mogu tap into their ancient roots reducing incoming damage by 25.

Will of the Emperors:
    The emperors of the infamous past, they whisper to you empowering you with their will increasing strength and spell power by X% for 30 seconds.

Saurok Leash:
    Call your slave saurok to serve as a mailbox, banker,
    and even vendor.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:37 am 
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Grand Master Hunter
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I would love the Mogu as a playable race, and this is a really great theory/concept :D Sadly, though, the Mogu return in BfA as enemies to the Zandalari and Horde :(


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:46 am 
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As enemies? Do elaborate, because seriously a splinter group could occur like the dark prophet Zul split off from the Zandalari Empire ruled by God-King Rastakhan.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:54 am 
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Warlord Kao, who was in Vol'jin: Shadows of the Horde novel, leads the Mogu to Zandalar in order to claim their land, which he believes was the Mogu's by right after Zul promised the Mogu a new empire. He is later slain, but the Mogu continue to aid Zul in his efforts to take over Zandalar.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:58 am 
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Eh, might be some kind of split group of Mogu that sees their race is losing a place in the world and chooses to try to rekindle old friendships or what not them. But hell Sylvanas doesn't seem to have issues of making soldiers so she could use the soul engine thing in the Vaults to create more Mogu under her command.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:18 am 
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Grand Master Hunter
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Rekindle is one thing, but trying to forcibly take Zandalar from the Zandalari is another. Also, the soul engine, which is called the Will of the Emperor, was destroyed by the Alliance and Horde after all of the terracotta warriors were defeated.

I really like your concept, and perhaps there is some group of Mogu somewhere that aren't necessarily against the Horde and/or the Alliance. But it isn't looking good for the race right now :(


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:19 am 
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I don't know how the pandas would feel about them joining either side really. They did enslave them for ages after all.

But it is a neat idea!

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:33 am 
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The shado-pan would be the only one with issues since the Pandaren from the Wandering Isle has never even set foot on Pandaria until we choose to play one.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:13 am 
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They would be a fun race to play, and you could possibly have different warring clans (which I think all have their own skin colours?) joining separate factions.

But I suspect the apparent pattern of allied races mirroring existing ones is simply because it's vastly easier to create a new player race from colour variants of an existing one than it is to create a race from a different model, even if that model is already well-established. With existing race models all the animations, armour variation art (a number of pieces of armour utilize different art depending on race and/or sex), tweaks for mount sizing, dances (if they're using existing dances?) etc. are already done. Even turning something like a Jinyu or Mogu into a functioning player race would probably require a lot more work than that. Plus, many of the existing potential races from previous expansions are colour variants on existing ones, so there's that bias that will lead to a false pattern, too.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:15 am 
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I agree completely, Wain. However, the Zandalari male model has required extensive reworking to make it playable. It was originally a male Darkspear model that has been heavily altered and uses many NE animations. Blizz has thus shown that they are willing to alter a model that requires that much work.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:37 pm 
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I think the Zandalari where a one off really in that regard.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Yeah, they're certainly willing to make other race models available, when they have the time to devote to them. I'm just saying that the apparent 'pattern' with matched allied races may be mostly due to the convenience of reskinned models, rather than a real pattern.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:14 pm 
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Here are my thoughts on allied races which do reflect like Mag'har Orc and Orc, Human and Kul'Tiran Human, etc.

Confirmed ones:

Orc - Mag'har Orc
Draenei - Lightforged Draenei
Night Elf - Void Elf
Blood Elf - Nightborne
Tauren - Highmountain Tauren
Darkspear Troll - Zandalari Troll
Dwarf - Dark Iron Dwarf

Goblin - Ogre or Vulpera
Gnome - Leper Gnome
Human - Kul'Tiran Human
Undead - San'layn (?)
Worgen - TBD
Pandaren - Hozen/Jinyu or Mogu/Furbolg or even Ethereal if instead of two different races for both alliance and horde versions that Ethereals join as a neutral one. Imagine what we could do with ethereal technology.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:17 pm 
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Well OP if it helps, the Zandalari from MoP appear to have been a rogue group themselves and not the will of the King or Princess. This could easily be the same for the Mogu, which are known for constant coups and power struggles. They are more so a group of clans that are occasionally united by a tyrant. They can be comparable to orc clans and how the first Horde was formed, so one could easily claim a "reformed" splinter group could join like any other race.
I also wouldn't worry about numbers too, since technically there are less than 5,000 BE, fewer HE, and like 20 VE. Lore wise, they could say a small group joined the factions and in game their usage will simply reflect popularity and not population.

I mean the Army of Light has a reformed demon and the pandaren even gave Garrosh a trial. Anything can happen, plus the pandaren have proved to be extremely forgiving--perhaps to a fault. I doubt that they'd happen and they'd still be a lot of work, but it IS entirely possible. There could be something in the future lorewise that may more than justify it, we just have to see what Blizzard delivers.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:25 pm 
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Leper Gnomes aren't an option anymore. New lore has made it clear that they cannot interact in society and can't really do anything aside from spread their contagion and kill. They could possible be a Horde Allied race (assuming they can't spread their contagion to Horde races).

The San'layn as a group was destroyed back in Wrath and there would probably only be a few surviving members left. Even still, after giving us two Elven allied races, I don't think Blizz will be quick to give more of them for a time.

Aside from that, I think the rest of those options could happen, possibly :)


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:40 pm 
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I would worry about undead options being more elves..that seems..very..too many elves :lol:
I'd like them as a customization option added for Undead though, but for their allied race it'd be cool to see a modified Valkyr! :D


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:04 pm 
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If any elves would be added, it would be that one. Has been requested for a long time, and the leak suggested that it could be possible :)

As neat as it'd be to roll a Val'kyr (I know several friends that would do it in a heartbeat :) ), they are rather powerful. Plus, unless they are Eyir's Val'kyr, Sylvanas can't make anymore.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:34 pm 
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I will just say that if Mogu ever do get added or even looked at. I'd play them, hands down.

BUT.

Jesus christ, don't give us those crappy skinny female models used for the consorts. I want BEEF BISHES. Give. Lemme have more females that are just freakin' built.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:55 pm 
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Thwip wrote:
I will just say that if Mogu ever do get added or even looked at. I'd play them, hands down.

BUT.

Jesus christ, don't give us those crappy skinny female models used for the consorts. I want BEEF BISHES. Give. Lemme have more females that are just freakin' built.

From memory the Thunder King made them. Am I right in remembering that there are otherwise no female mogu? And if so, how have they been reproducing? Do they just manufacture more mogu?

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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:04 am 
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There is actually a lot of speculation on that. There were Mogu women at one point in time, but it isn't clear if there still is. Will paste over some info from Wowpedia for those interested.

Gender and reproduction

While initially created by the titans, sources such as the Lei Shen lore object describe mogu as being 'born' to other mogu, and "The Lost Dynasty" says that mogu can have sons (though not how). This suggests at least some degree of reproduction by mogu themselves, following their being affected by the Curse of Flesh. However, all mogu known to currently exist are male. Mogu females used to exist, with mothers and sisters being used in mogu insults, a famous saga about Lei Shen and Sparkmancer Vu's feud over a woman, and Monara being a slain queen (and the last queen) of the mogu. This raises the issue of the current state of mogu reproduction.

Since mogu females have existed in the past, it can be surmised that they were created by the titans along with the males. Their apparent lack of presence raises a number of possibilities:

1) The females have mostly or entirely died out, perhaps due to a relative physical weakness in an extremely violent culture (although a race dependent on sexual reproduction would be expected to take great care, probably on an instinctive level, to ensure that this did not happen).

This is unlikely, unless the females were systematically being killed by the males for some reason. It is also impossible to say how natural female mogu would compare to the males -- while human males tend to be the physically stronger of the two, the female is the strongest in some other species (such as hawks). But disparity in strength alone would not seem to account for wiping out an entire half (presumably) of the population.

2) The females are (perhaps owing to their scarcity) being hidden, or protected far from where they may suffer harm (or where their children would be placed in danger)

This possibility is supported by what is known of mogu culture. In several real life human cultures, especially those more reliant on older values, the women are essentially forced to stay at home, often with a heavy penalty for appearing in public (see purdah for an example).

3) The females are elsewhere, or simply have not yet been discovered.

It should also be noted that no mogu children have been found to exist, although they are mentioned in Sparkmancer Vu's epitaph. This may again suggest that both the females and children are being kept well out of harm's reach, or that neither are any longer to be found in Pandaria. While it seems natural to assume that mogu would reproduce through sexual means, the initial creation of mogu using titan technology should also be remembered, especially considering Lei Shen's possession of much of that technology. Such technology would likely be capable of producing fully-grown mogu.

It is possible that when mogu regained their stone bodies after Lei Shen's conquests, the females were reshaped into asexual male-looking bodies.

While it is possible, if the mogu rely on sexual reproduction to propagate their species, it seems unlikely that they would have allowed all of the females to die out. This suggests that females are likely still in existence, albeit evidently far from any non-mogu eyes. Indeed, if the 'rumours' about the Twin Consorts being the only known mogu females are founded in pandaren experience, this may suggest that no females have been witnessed by any non-mogu race in many hundreds or even thousands of years, if at all. While mogu relics (and the ghost of Monara) prove that females have existed in the past, this serves to illustrate both the common lack of knowledge on the subject, and the apparent scarcity of mogu females.

Lei Shen's Twin Consorts are rumoured to be the only known female mogu in existence. However, these have been confirmed to have been specifically created by Lei Shen, and are "a direct reflection of his will rather than any broader sense of mogu culture as a whole." This description in itself suggests some notable difference between the Consorts and their real-life counterparts, unless it refers only to cultural differences, such as in the roles of men and women within mogu society. For speculation on the creation of the Consorts, see Twin Consorts speculation.

Monara, known as the "last queen of the mogu" apparently represents the last ruling female in mogu society (at least at the level of monarch), slain shortly before the end of the Age of a Hundred Kings.

Body replacement

Mogu do have the ability to take the spirits from one body, or an already dead mogu, to a newly constructed body. It's possible that many of the mogu that have existed simply move on to a new body when their last one has failed. However, if this was the case many previous leaders would have come back and either retained their place in society or attempted to take it back.


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