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 Post subject: Dark Iron Shaman
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:30 pm 
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Grand Master Hunter
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d0AI9SpcUw

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Iron Shaman
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:45 pm 
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Illustrious Master Hunter
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Glad that they'll be added, but this will just make the Horde furious in regards to Zandalari Paladins.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Iron Shaman
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:57 pm 
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Zandalari got amazing druid forms. They still got the better deal, so they can deal with it.

As for that totem, I'm quite happy it's an anvil. I wouldn't have had it any other way.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Iron Shaman
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:02 pm 
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I wouldn't say so, Val- Dwarves can already be shamans, and the Dark Iron have a long history as shamans (even if misguided ones). While I totally understand people being upset about no Zandalari paladins, it at least somewhat makes sense- whereas not giving Dark Iron the ability to be shamans would be incredibly weird.

That said, the totem looks hilarious and I love it. What a cute concept!

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Iron Shaman
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:18 pm 
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The reason I say that is because there is a lore reason for Zandalari Paladins to exist. They use the blessings of the Rezan, the Devilsaur Loa, to perform their work. You can see these Prelates in Zul'Gurub and Zul'Aman. And on Zandalar, there is an entire group that consists of them.

However, Blizz gave their leader dialogue which basically says, "We aren't taking new members and you have to be born into our group". This annoyed a ton of people, spawning several threads about how Blizz is being stupid/lazy/biased etc.

After you complete the Zandalar questline, a series of events cause the Prelates to lose their powers, aside from a few individuals. This caused even more threads to spawn, along with people saying that if Zandalari can't be Paladins, despite there being lore that allows it, then Dark Irons shouldn't be Shamans, despite there being lore for them.

I am very happy that Dark Irons can be shamans. A friend of mine will be especially glad, since he was rather disappointed at the idea that they might not be. I'm just saying that the Horde won't be thrilled about this.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Iron Shaman
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:07 pm 
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WerebearGuy wrote:
Zandalari got amazing druid forms. They still got the better deal, so they can deal with it.


This kind of thinking drives me nuts. It's not about who gets the better deal. The horde gets one good thing and now everyone who mains Ally seems to think we don't deserve anything else. Some people think the druid forms are ugly, and some people don't find enjoyment in playing a druid, so not everyone will think we got the better deal. Especially since we're constantly hit with the badguy bat or lose our warchief. One "good" thing does not mean allys are entitled to something at the expense of the horde. That's my opinion at least, but we still shouldn't be told you can't have something because you already got something else.

Speaking of dark irons getting shaman because dwarves can be shamans, why can't humans be druids but worgens can? It's always bothered me...weren't the harvest witches originally human ?? X.x ugh

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Iron Shaman
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:14 pm 
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Playable humans are from Stormwind, and Druidism/Nature reverence just isn't a part of their culture. It is for Gilneans, and only slightly originally. The Harvest Witches were a rather small group in Gilneas that was ignored/ridiculed by the rest of the population. It wasn't until they saved the country from a famine that they gained greater respect and support.

Even then, they only had basic understanding of nature magic. It was the Kaldorei that taught them how to shapeshift and such (you can get druid forms prior to leaving Gilneas, but that is a game mechanic rather than lore).


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Iron Shaman
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:23 pm 
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Jurz wrote:
WerebearGuy wrote:
Zandalari got amazing druid forms. They still got the better deal, so they can deal with it.


This kind of thinking drives me nuts. It's not about who gets the better deal. The horde gets one good thing and now everyone who mains Ally seems to think we don't deserve anything else. Some people think the druid forms are ugly, and some people don't find enjoyment in playing a druid, so not everyone will think we got the better deal. Especially since we're constantly hit with the badguy bat or lose our warchief. One "good" thing does not mean allys are entitled to something at the expense of the horde. That's my opinion at least, but we still shouldn't be told you can't have something because you already got something else.

Speaking of dark irons getting shaman because dwarves can be shamans, why can't humans be druids but worgens can? It's always bothered me...weren't the harvest witches originally human ?? X.x ugh


Agreed, although there IS lore saying that Zandalari paladins do exist, and the lengths that Blizzard is going to to jump through hoops and disprove that is kinda dumb.

Dark Iron's should have always been shaman, they're tied so closely to Ragnaros it would have been silly if not but as for the druid thing.. That's more regional human practices since Stormwind humans never seem to practice any pagan/druidic craft which is what spawned the harvest witches into being druids.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Iron Shaman
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:39 pm 
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Having unique druid skins is something that has appeal. This is different than keeping a tally on who has faction leaders of various importance that end up as villains (Fandral, Archbichop Benedictus, Garrosh, Onyxia). Player character models are what's the center of players' screens practically the entire time they're playing. Currently, for players who play primarily on alliance, their druid options are two races with same-old-same-old models. If they play on horde, they've got four options, one of which is radically different. Having more choices for druid models on the alliance wouldn't be "at the expense" of players on the horde side. It's not like zandalari paladins are a combo that is being taken away.

If there's ever Kul Tiran humans as an allied race, then I expect they'd get druids. I think they've got a lot of druidic npcs, even if they're a different sort of druid than what's in the alliance so far. Stormwind humans didn't have druids as part of their culture. Not that it couldn't be retconned in, but that's why it's not there yet.
I think if zandalari trolls get all these fancy new druid forms that don't follow the old cat-bear-moonkin model, then it's time for blizzard to reconsider Worgen druid forms. Like worgen-only glyphs (or something like that) that changes feral form to a wolf model (specifically designed for Worgen druids). Or, keeping with the gothic theme, a humanoid raven model for Worgens' moonkin, using the outcast arakkoa animations. Kultiran druid forms could use models similar to their creations (wickerman, sticks, bones, etc, iirc).

Silivren wrote:
...although there IS lore saying that Zandalari paladins do exist...

And lore saying that the Zandalari don't have paladins like the players' paladins are. The Zandalari called player character paladins "heathens", back when ZG came out. In my opinion, Forsaken paladins would be a better candidate for a race/class combo.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Iron Shaman
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:02 pm 
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I'm sure Blizz would've given the Alliance another Druid race if it was possible in the lore. Lightforged Draenei, Void Elves, and Dark Irons all races that do not utilize or revere nature to the extent of practicing druidism. Like you said, Xota, Kul Tirans have been shown to use Drudic powers. If Wildhammers become playable, they too practice Druidism and would be a good choice.

Zandalari Druids are already different than the currently existing Druid races in both how they became Druids and why they do it. Regardless of what the Zandalari Prelates think of player paladins, there is still lore for them to be playable.

Forsaken Paladins really aren't an option since, to be a Paladin, you have to infuse yourself with the Light. As undead, the Forsaken would be in constant pain and would gradually regain their senses. They could taste the rot in their mouths or feel the maggots in their flesh. The two examples of Undead (Sir Zeliek and the Risen) aren't choosing to use the Light by their own free will.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Iron Shaman
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:18 pm 
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I know the Zandalari Paladin discussion has been done to death, but one thing I will mention in regards to them being unconventional paladins is Sunwalkers and what they were originally stated as. They're followers of the sun- not the light from the sun, but specifically the sun itself and how it's the eye of the Earthmother. More or less, they became very specialized warrior/druids who left the idea of balance behind and focus entirely on one extreme.

Mind you, this lore appears to have been mostly abandoned, and they seem to follow the Light now. I'm not sure why this is and it super bothers me. But, regardless, unconventional takes on the classes certainly existed once.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Iron Shaman
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:38 pm 
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I believe they still hold to their old beliefs, its just that Blizz didn't make that abundantly clear in Legion, which is a missed opportunity. One thing that has been debated is whether they are actually using a seperate source of power compared to other Paladins, or if they are using the Light unknowingly. Hopefully Chronicles Vol. 3 will clear that up.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Iron Shaman
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:49 pm 
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I've been avoiding some spoilers, so I wasn't aware that Kul'Tirans have a druid thing going on. If anything from the few streams and things I saw, it came off as more legitimate witch-craft w/ the associated paganism.
Edit: I found a stream that showed one, what in the F----- BfA is wild :lol:

And I can live without Zandalari Pali's. I think trolls using the light and shadow still relates better to shamans and priests, when you consider their culture. Night Elves also have "a light"--which is Elune-- and are more structured and dogmatic about it, but they aren't paladins either. NE even have more than enough reason to train warriors to wield Elune's light to defend her, but nah...

I'm actually very surprised we got Tauren Paladins before NE ones when you think about it conceptually :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Iron Shaman
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:10 pm 
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The water totem was added today

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