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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:24 pm 
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Illustrious Master Hunter
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Wow! Looks great, Qraljar! Good job :)


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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:32 pm 
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I wish that was real! Well done!

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:01 pm 
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my only complaint with that the stripes look a little more faded than I like. but this is very good, and I say that as someone who still runs with a frostsaber pride watcher that I've had since before naxx was released.


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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:15 am 
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Qraljar, that's AMAZING! Do want!

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:19 am 
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A tweet requesting a turquoise strider update with the orange belly, if you’d like to support it or add your thoughts:
https://twitter.com/wowpetopia/status/1 ... 03073?s=21

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:01 am 
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Nightsabers are the cats from Legion, the 4 colors are kind of same to those ones, or maybe its not a skin change but a new kitty since they are called grand nightsabers? Cause Sambas is called a grand lion but the others are just regular lions. I never got why they just dont use Sambas model to revamp the old lions


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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:28 am 
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sasrei7 wrote:
Nightsabers are the cats from Legion, the 4 colors are kind of same to those ones, or maybe its not a skin change but a new kitty since they are called grand nightsabers? Cause Sambas is called a grand lion but the others are just regular lions. I never got why they just dont use Sambas model to revamp the old lions

Those model names aren't official, they're just ones I make up, so we can differentiate them in our database. Originally I started using words like "grand" for the newer model, when they coexist with the old one. I know 'grand' sounds a bit cheesy at times, but I figured it was better than using terms like 'updated windserpents' or 'hi-res tigers'. Now I often rename the older one to "classic" instead, and give the new one the generic name (like Classic Windserpents and Windserpents). But for nigthsabers it's a muddle of different models and I'll wait to see what happens with them before I settle on a final name. "Nightsaber" is used by a range of different cats of different models.

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:52 am 
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sasrei7 wrote:
Nightsabers are the cats from Legion, the 4 colors are kind of same to those ones, or maybe its not a skin change but a new kitty since they are called grand nightsabers? Cause Sambas is called a grand lion but the others are just regular lions. I never got why they just dont use Sambas model to revamp the old lions


Nightsabers are most large cats from Vanilla +. There would be no reason to update the models of the Legion cats as Legion is new. The Legion cats are also a sleeker model for people who don't like the big powerhouse cat models. The one from Vanilla are very highly likely what these are meant to be. It's very apparently due to the build of the model itself. They are the big, bulky powercats.

@ Wain The choice in coat colors does baffle me a bit. I ponder if they're going to be drops from zone rares like we were given with Arathi? Could be a possibility!

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:39 pm 
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Seems to me, and maybe I'm wrong (wouldn't be the first or last time) that I think the strongest concern of when they do update models is that certain features are either intentionally or unintentionally not translating over to those newer models. Karkin with BfA release has been a strong example of this for the "concerned" about the model update group I believe.

I have been good with most if not all of the model updates, and certain cats would definitely benefit with a more "streamlined" look I guess is the way to put it. On the other hand I've always viewed the pet models as a growth both with the game, and with where we are at in the game. I still look fondly upon Deathmaw as a wolf that I must have on every hunter because of her uniqueness. But, at a much higher level than Burning Steppes, I am far more likely to summon Fenryr as a wolf pet for whatever I am doing because he seems to just fit with my character at his much higher level than Deathmaw does.

Somewhere I am sure there is a happy medium of advancing looks because they are dated, and the technology to create them is better, and the other side of that coin where there is valid reason to be concerned that long time "special" unique skins have the potential to be stripped from the game making those pixels people are fond of, less unique than they have been over the past 14 years.

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:36 pm 
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Hopefully we'll see issues like Karkin resolved in 8.1. It is largely up to us to bring to Blizz's attention any design decisions with updated models that aren't true enough to the originals; and that is really all that we can do. The rest is up to Blizz.


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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:47 pm 
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Valnaaros wrote:
Wow! Looks great, Qraljar! Good job :)

Teigan wrote:
I wish that was real! Well done!

Chaix wrote:
my only complaint with that the stripes look a little more faded than I like. but this is very good, and I say that as someone who still runs with a frostsaber pride watcher that I've had since before naxx was released.

Lisaara wrote:
Qraljar, that's AMAZING! Do want!

Thanks for the compliments, guys. It was just a little cheeky edit I wanted to try my hand at, since the Winterspring Frostsaber sure has a vibrant and impressive color scheme. The stripes, honestly, are ripped from a google tiger stripes image. I tried to blur it to make it seem less obvious, but they may be a bit too blurry. :lol:

Wain wrote:
sasrei7 wrote:
Nightsabers are the cats from Legion, the 4 colors are kind of same to those ones, or maybe its not a skin change but a new kitty since they are called grand nightsabers? Cause Sambas is called a grand lion but the others are just regular lions. I never got why they just dont use Sambas model to revamp the old lions

Those model names aren't official, they're just ones I make up, so we can differentiate them in our database. Originally I started using words like "grand" for the newer model, when they coexist with the old one. I know 'grand' sounds a bit cheesy at times, but I figured it was better than using terms like 'updated windserpents' or 'hi-res tigers'. Now I often rename the older one to "classic" instead, and give the new one the generic name (like Classic Windserpents and Windserpents). But for nigthsabers it's a muddle of different models and I'll wait to see what happens with them before I settle on a final name. "Nightsaber" is used by a range of different cats of different models.

Image
The icon is called NightSaber2Mount. :)

I'm a bit unsure as to what Blizzard's intention here is. The model is great, really, and going by its armor, the mounted version seems like it is intended to be an updated depiction of the original level 20 sabers. But then the skins that are meant to mimic the level 20 mounts lack things like stripes and dots. They look beautiful, but they are quite a far cry from the OGs.

Image
This is how I'm assuming Blizzard sees it at this moment. Of course, they aren't 100% accurate to the old silhouette, but I think they are nonetheless great and beautiful, geometry-wise.

But the textures/skins don't sell me as of now, if they do really intend to use these as model updates, not entirely new drops altogether.

The first one is actually not that bad, but is missing its stripes and needs some fiddling with the coloration. The last one, the Dawnsaber, is not entirely horrible either. A bit less saturated and missing its stripes. Those two could be easily fixed if Blizzard bothers. Also the eyes colors, of course.

But then we get to the Frostsabers and we run into some issues. Why are they grey and blueish? They need to be a proper white. Also, missing stripes, and there's only one skin for what I assume is the new white, but the current lvl 20 mounts have a spotted and a striped variant.

All-in-all, I actually really like the model, and I might be one of the few with this opinion, but would really like it if they tackled all the available skins and used it as an update to the old model:
Image

If they are updates to the old model, though, I do hope that the black/panther variant is a new Darkshore drop, because if not, then only retired mount owners will be able to have it, and that skin is the best in my eyes.

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:01 pm 
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Maybe the missing stripes/spots are going to be add as another texture layer, so they can mix and match. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:04 pm 
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Rawr wrote:
Maybe the missing stripes/spots are going to be add as another texture layer, so they can mix and match. :mrgreen:

It's definitely possible. It's, after all, the first build. These are just preemptive suggestions/(maybe?) concerns.

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:04 pm 
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The only thing I miss is that iconic high-shouldered look. Even though I recognize it may not be the most anatomically correct thing, those big sabers have become a bit of a mainstay in the game and those particular models always stood out from the other, slimmer cat models. These new ones don't quite pull off the same effect. I'm curious to see what they have planned for them, if they're meant to be replacements (which seems odd considering they don't match any of the originals really), their own thing, or if it's just a precursor to a more thorough cat revamp.

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:33 pm 
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Higher shoulders, longer teeth and better colors with stripes and Dots might help. i vastely the old model. .but I don't play any more so for me personaly i am glad that I stopped while the old models were active.

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:39 pm 
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Teigan wrote:
I do think that presenting a unified front to fine-tune the upgrades would be a better use of time and energy. The upgrades going to happen. They need to happen.


A united front would be nice but it's not going to happen. I certainly didn't think many would agree or sympathize but I also figured people on here could disagree without resorting to jabs and barbs.

I also don't see how it destroys someone else's playing experience by letting players toggle on old models if that's what they prefer (no one addressed this), as they had for a little while with character models.

Outside of the few models that were simply smoothed out versions of the old skin (i.e. snakes) none of the new skins have been an improvement. I've been perma-stabling old pets left and right or abandoning them outright. The new cats shown here I don't like, but obviously that's an opinion only I hold.

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:58 pm 
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I like the high shoulder look, like this tiger stalking.
Image :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:18 pm 
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I'm honestly confused by the lack of the high shoulders on these cats- they look like better regular boxcat models to me than a replacement for the mount-model high shouldered cats. But regardless of that, we've seen again and again that their new models can totally achieve the same look! The new tigers are SUPER good examples, big and bulky and badass. I'm really not sure why these slimmer models would be used for the mounts instead.

Also curious if they're going to keep expanding model updates to update all old mounts. Worgs and raptors could really use some love.

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:25 pm 
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No one is taking jabs or barbs at you, there's just disagreement. Also, adding a toggle to switch WoW between old and new models, at this point, seems like a very big ask. There's a lot of newer models now and having it so every one of them is changed with a toggle just doesn't seem feasible. I'm no tech wizard by any means, but I feel like that's a lot of work to ask for :')

More on topic, though, with the side-by-side comparison, I'm really hoping that those new models are just base skins and that the patterns haven't been added yet. I also share the sentiment that the shoulders need to be higher. Don't get me wrong, I think they're gorgeous models and would happily tame them, but-- those Nightsabers were always big and bulky - these newer ones look like they're trying but it's not working so great. The fangs are a lot smaller, for one, and the golden model is missing the really nice blue eyes, too. As a stand alone model they'd be great and I'd have no complaints, but these are updates. They need to look like updates, not vastly different creatures

They're still gorgeous though. I might need to make a NE huntress as I very much need more Elves and I like my themes

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 Post subject: Re: 8.1 Beasts
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:50 pm 
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peanutbuttercup wrote:
Teigan wrote:
I do think that presenting a unified front to fine-tune the upgrades would be a better use of time and energy. The upgrades going to happen. They need to happen.


A united front would be nice but it's not going to happen. I certainly didn't think many would agree or sympathize but I also figured people on here could disagree without resorting to jabs and barbs.

I also don't see how it destroys someone else's playing experience by letting players toggle on old models if that's what they prefer (no one addressed this), as they had for a little while with character models.

Outside of the few models that were simply smoothed out versions of the old skin (i.e. snakes) none of the new skins have been an improvement. I've been perma-stabling old pets left and right or abandoning them outright. The new cats shown here I don't like, but obviously that's an opinion only I hold.


Well, I certainly wasn't "jabbing or barbing" you, now was I? Honestly? And I said NOTHING, literally nothing, about toggles. I don't give a flying frog about toggles. If someone wants a toggle, great, let them have it if it won't break the game. I understand that you feel picked on because some people want the game to move forward, but that isn't a personal assault against you.

ANYWAY.

I also really like the old, big, bulky saber skeleton/model, because they actually look powerful enough to hold up those disproportionately gigantic saber teeth! I'd like to see at least some of the mounts keep it. Did the box cat skins fit the saber cats and vice versa? I don't recall. Maybe that would be the case here?

I do hope that the idea of spots and stripes being a mix and match layer is true. As much as I like these guys, especially their facial markings, they look a little naked. And, the idea of a spots and stripes mix and match could make some really cool patterns we don't have possible, so there's that too.

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