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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:27 pm 
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Kul Tirans can probably be Shamans.
Zandalari Paladins already exist and have since ToT/5.2 so they should be playable, imo.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:31 pm 
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I haven't seen any Kul shamans, just druids. :| :mrgreen:

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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:32 pm 
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Depends on whether there is new lore that will allow them to be able use their abilities. Rezan was the one that empowered them. But since he is now dead, they really can't do anything (which they state when you ask them). Ion said that they might allow them to be Paladins, but that isn't a guarantee.

@Rawr Tidesages are basically Shamans. They have been seen controlling both the water and wind, and even have water totems.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:39 pm 
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Don't they all wear cloth, thought those were water/wind mages as they have water elementals like mages. I really don't use NPCs for estimating future classes/races as they are far too varied, the Druid though has been confirmed. :mrgreen:

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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:12 pm 
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Mages use the Arcane to control or create Elements like Fire and Frost. Shamans either directly call upon the Elements or force them to serve. The Tidesages do not use the Arcane and have been seen to call upon the Elements directly. Even Wowpedia lists them as Shamans (along with Priest and Sage). They are just Shamans that wear cloth instead of mail.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:03 pm 
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Actually Wowpedia says they are Hydromancers. "The navy of Kul Tiras included some hydromancers and Elite Hydromancers."

The only Human Shaman NPCs listed on the Wowpedia Human page (there is a little (1) by it) at the bottom of the page are Kurzen Witch Doctors, they are hostile to both factions and can be found in Northern Stranglethorn. :mrgreen:

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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:20 pm 
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First off, Hydromancers can be a type of Shaman that specializes in Water-base magic. Hydromancy : "Most spells using in hydromancy come from various classes such as frost mage, shaman, and druid."

Second, on the Tidesage Wowpedia page, it specifically lists their Character Classes as Shaman, Priest, and Sage.

Players are limited by Game Mechanics. NPCs are not, and so if Blizz decides to make a group of Shamans that wear cloth armor, then they can. Obviously if KTs can be Shamans, they'll have to wear mail, but that isn't something that'll stop them from being Shamans.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:27 pm 
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"The Tidesages (also spelled tidesages) or sea priests are a religious Kul Tiran group" and as you said before Priest is one of the classes they take from, so I think rather than stretching it by saying they are Shamans, I think it's safer to say they are water priests with some mage and shaman spells. That being said, I don't think Kuls will have a Shaman class based on one NPC class that takes from 3 different ones. Like I said before NPCs are a bad way to estimating future classes/races as they are far too varied, like this one. :mrgreen:

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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:41 pm 
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They are far more Shamans than they are Priests. Within WoW, Priests are individuals that use the Light or Void. Corrupted Tidesages use the Void, but not normal ones. Them being classified as Priests, I assume, is largely due to the fact that they bless sailors and ships (blessing being a term usually found in the realm of Priests) and that they act as religious order. Outside of that, whatelse makes them a Priest? Do they use any Priest abilities or spells? We never see them use or mention the Light, and only the corrupted ones use the Void. They do work with the souls, but Shamans also work with spirits. And we see no use of the Arcane, never hear of them talking about it, and the Wowpedia page never mentions the Arcane.

"The wind was theirs to command as it powered their sails..." "Long had they listened to the sea to guide their ships and their people, gentle whispers imperceptible to most." "They have magical dominion over the oceans, can control water, storms, wind, and have mastery over all the elements." Titles like Galecaller, Seacaller, and Spiritualist. All of this sounds very much like a Shaman. Their abilities are Shamanistic.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:44 pm 
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"The Tidesages (also spelled tidesages) or sea priests are a religious Kul Tiran group based in Stormsong Valley, in the Shrine of the Storm. Most people on Kul Tiras look to the seas for guidance the same way others look to the Light, but the tidesages have a much deeper connection with the water." So they are literally Priests of the sea (water). I would also like to say that corrupt shamans summon corrupt elementals not void monsters, unlike Priests.

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Looks pretty Priestly to me. Also don't they call up Old God shadow tentacles? :mrgreen:

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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Do Shamans not provide guidance and blessings to the societies of Orcs, Trolls, and Tauren? So what if they are called sea priests and wear cloth? Show me where the uncorrupted Tidesages are seen using the Light or the Void. By WoW class definition, a Priest is someone that uses the Light or the Void. Them being called Sea Priests and wearing cloth is not enough of a reason.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:58 pm 
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Yeah but shamans provide it through talking with ancestors and elementals not, again, old god void tentacle monsters.

"With the arrival of Cataclysm priests are now a playable class for the tauren. These priests are known as "seers" and use the power of An'she, the sun, in their spells just as tauren paladins, named the Sunwalkers, do. This is similar to how night elven priests use the power of the moon through their goddess, Elune, instead of through the Holy Light."

So they pray to a sea god and get their water Priest powers through them.

EDIT: Also in the in game quest The Missing Fleet the first line of quest dialog is "The tidesage order has a sizable monastery right here in Boralus." Pretty safe to say they are water Priests. :mrgreen:

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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:08 pm 
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"The Tidesages carry bells that call souls of the recently deceased to them for later release. They do not bury their dead, for the tides claim all.[16] Spirits are released into rivers that flow to the Shrine of the Storm in the sea. Legends say that as their spirits pass through the Shrine, they aid in the great blessing rituals that all Kul Tiran ships undergo. In that way, they never stop serving their people." Sounds awfully similar to what Shamans do with Spirits/Ancestors.

We don't know who the Tidesages get their power from. Their are speculations ranging from a powerful water elemental to a Wild God. The uncorrupted Tidesages that are members of the Storm's Wake do not use the Void and thus do not draw their power from the Old Gods/Void.

Blizz has since homogenized Tauren Priests and Paladins with all other Priests and Paladins in terms of where they get their power. Aponi Brightmane, whom is the leader of the Sunwalkers, talked about the Light a number of times. She praised it and mentions drawing upon it. Even if this were not the case, the Tidesages do not draw upon An'she. We do not know who or what they draw upon. Could be an elemental. Could be a Wild God.

Show me where the uncorrupted members are seen using the Light and/or Void


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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:21 pm 
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Show me where in game where Shamans have a monastery. Guiding spirits to where they go is something Priest do, and "Legends say" doesn't do it for me. So far all you have is that they summon totems, they also use wands it seems "They use wands to control their water elemental constructs".

"The Tidemother is a being worshiped by the people of Kul Tiras. Most people on Kul Tiras look to the seas for guidance the same way others look to the Light, but the Tidesages have a much deeper connection with the water. Long have the Tidesages listened to the sea to guide their ships and their people, gentle whispers imperceptible to most. But in recent times the voices changed, becoming demanding and even violent."

Again they don't use the Light like some do, they go through their Tidemother like Taurens and Nelfs. :mrgreen:

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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:27 pm 
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Who says that they can't have a monastery? And Shamans also guide Spirits to rest. So do Druids and really any magical class that can act as a religious figure.

This is the lore. "The wind was theirs to command as it powered their sails..." "Long had they listened to the sea to guide their ships and their people, gentle whispers imperceptible to most." "They have magical dominion over the oceans, can control water, storms, wind, and have mastery over all the elements." All the Elements.

The wands could be elemental in origin. We don't know what they are made of, so we can't say it is the Arcane. They could be using them to enslave the Elementals, and there are other races that also do that using varying things.

We don't know who the Tidemother is. She could be an Elemental. She could be something else. Unless you know who/what she is, you can't say that she is just like An'she or Elune.

I am more than happy to admit that they are not Shamans, but you have yet to give a real reason to show that they aren't. In the discussions that I have read concerning them in lore communities (Scrolls of Lore, Story Forums, MMO-C lore forums) have all called them Shamans, since they basically are.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:52 pm 
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I never said they couldn't have a monastery, I said to show me where there is a Shaman monastery. Priests have monasteries all over the place in WoW.

I have proven that Tidesages are just sea Priests: They wear cloth, use shadow magic (corrupt or not they use it), use wands, have a monastery, they are called "sea priests" for crying out loud, ect.

They are an NPC class that lists Priests as one of the classes they take from, yes they take from Shamans as well but having a totem doesn't make them a Shaman nor does using elemental magic as Mages can also use elemental magic as well as a number of other classes.

Nowhere have I seen them called Shamans, please link page.

Trivia at the bottom of the Tidesages' page:
During BlizzCon 2017, they were referred to only as "sea priests".
Tidesages share similarities with the priests of the Drowned God from the A Song of Ice and Fire series.

Really you have not proven that they are Shamans. :mrgreen:

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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:24 pm 
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Nor have you proven that they are Priests. So what that there aren't any Shaman monasteries? Just because there isn't any doesn't mean that there can't be. Monks also have monasteries, so does that mean that Tidesages are monks?

A name doesn't mean anything. I have already explained what they have been capable of doing, both in lore and in game. The corrupted ones are the only ones that use the Void. You cannot count them since they aren't how Tidesages normally are.

Mages create Elemental magic via the Arcane. They do not control it. They do not call upon the Elements. The Wowpedia page has shown that they (Tidesages) control the Elements. "The wind was theirs to command as it powered their sails..." "They have magical dominion over the oceans, can control water, storms, wind, and have mastery over all the elements." Mages do not exert control over all of the Elements. Priests do not call upon the Elements.

Here are a few links to discussions about them: Mmo-C Official Shaman Forums Another mmo-c discussion

Again, their name does not really mean anything. Every race has certain names/titles for their classes such as Blood Knights for BE Paladins and Anchorites for Draenei Priests. Sea Priests can just be something they are called without it meaning that they are of the Priest class.

That last bit of trivia is irrelevant. Sharing similarities with something of a different media doesn't support them being Priests.

Again, show me where they use the Light or Void. Priests in WoW use the Light and/or the Void. That is at the heart of what a Priest is in WoW. Show me a single Tidesage that is uncorrupted that uses the Light and/or the Void.

This discussion is obviously going nowhere. I have given more than enough evidence (even proof) that they are Shamans. Thus far your only "support" is that they are also called Sea Priests and wear cloth.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:15 am 
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Can I just ask a stupid and unrelated question? Ok, what is the "Mr. Green" emoji :mrgreen: that you use alot, Rawr? I've never known exactly what that means. Is it the same as :D the regular "big grin" emoji or does it have some other connotation?

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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:18 am 
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Discussions are not proof.

You have dismissed all of my proof and if a name means nothing, then I'm not sure what your argument is.

They control elementals with wands, not sure if I have ever seen a shaman with a wand before.

Nowhere have I ever seen that Mages can only use their Fire or Ice magic because the Arcane magic controls it, all three are listed as separate magics. It is stated that Arcane can be used to "bend" but as far as I've read that was only Arcane infused items used to hold other magic in said item. You do not need to call on elementals to use elemental magic, really I'm not sure where you get that from.

Again, don't use NPCs for estimating future classes/races as they are far too varied, as Shamans have not been confirmed but are only a speculation and no Human outright has the class Shaman (other than the one I fist mentioned) I don't think they will be a choice for that reason and because having Kul Shamans would give the Alliance (one to) two more Shaman races than Horde have Pally races. If Zans get Pally that will even out the numbers. :mrgreen:

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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:23 am 
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Teigan wrote:
Can I just ask a stupid and unrelated question? Ok, what is the "Mr. Green" emoji :mrgreen: that you use alot, Rawr? I've never known exactly what that means. Is it the same as :D the regular "big grin" emoji or does it have some other connotation?


Sorry its a tick, like an itch in the back of my head if I don't add it at the end, I started using it instead of the normal one because it's green and that's my favorite color, it a long time ago and now if I don't it super bugs me. I have a few ticks like that like needing to click on things and touch items in the house. Sorry if it bugs you I use the other faces too but always have to end with :mrgreen:

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