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Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:32 am 
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Journeyman Hunter
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So, I took a quick tour on the PTR, and it appears that the Animal Companion talent (two pets out at the same time) has been finally fixed. When you use Mend Pet it now heals both of your pets and Play Dead causes both of your pets to fall over "dead" (and rise up when the spell is cancelled).

When it comes to numbers I don't know if the talent is viable in any way, but at least you don't shoot yourself in the foot anymore on a functional level when picking it.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:49 am 
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It's probably still considered subpar compared to Killer Instinct, but I'm glad that it'll work better for those that do use it :)


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Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:16 pm 
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Yay!


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Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:45 am 
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Expert Hunter
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Biggest issue with Animal Companion was the second pet's AI being worse than Hati in Legion. Does the second pet actually function like a proper pet now too? It's good that Mend Pet was fixed to actually work on it, and the feign death thing is handy, but if the second pet is still as dumb as a sack of rocks, then I'm sad.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:47 am 
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WerebearGuy wrote:
Biggest issue with Animal Companion was the second pet's AI being worse than Hati in Legion. Does the second pet actually function like a proper pet now too? It's good that Mend Pet was fixed to actually work on it, and the feign death thing is handy, but if the second pet is still as dumb as a sack of rocks, then I'm sad.


The second pet has been fine since it went live. The only issue is it's tuned horribly compared to Killer Instinct. (And the aforementioned issues with Play Dead and Mend Pet)

With 3 pieces with Pack Leader, it actually pulls ahead of Killer Instinct.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:43 am 
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EEE! That's awesome!!

I haven't had any issues with the pet's AI, outside of both of my pets getting stuck on occasional doors (but even if I run solo pet with Killer Instinct I have that problem in BFA -shrugs-). The Play Dead and Mend Pet fixes are perfect for me~ :headbang:


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Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:00 am 
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That's great news :)

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Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:50 pm 
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Myzou wrote:
WerebearGuy wrote:
Biggest issue with Animal Companion was the second pet's AI being worse than Hati in Legion. Does the second pet actually function like a proper pet now too? It's good that Mend Pet was fixed to actually work on it, and the feign death thing is handy, but if the second pet is still as dumb as a sack of rocks, then I'm sad.


The second pet has been fine since it went live. The only issue is it's tuned horribly compared to Killer Instinct. (And the aforementioned issues with Play Dead and Mend Pet)

With 3 pieces with Pack Leader, it actually pulls ahead of Killer Instinct.


This. It might be viable with the new raid unless we get a new stacking buff trait specific for the raid. Problem is getting 3 pieces of Pack Leader with good levels.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:58 am 
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SlickrockGhost wrote:
Myzou wrote:
WerebearGuy wrote:
Biggest issue with Animal Companion was the second pet's AI being worse than Hati in Legion. Does the second pet actually function like a proper pet now too? It's good that Mend Pet was fixed to actually work on it, and the feign death thing is handy, but if the second pet is still as dumb as a sack of rocks, then I'm sad.


The second pet has been fine since it went live. The only issue is it's tuned horribly compared to Killer Instinct. (And the aforementioned issues with Play Dead and Mend Pet)

With 3 pieces with Pack Leader, it actually pulls ahead of Killer Instinct.


This. It might be viable with the new raid unless we get a new stacking buff trait specific for the raid. Problem is getting 3 pieces of Pack Leader with good levels.


They've already said they aren't doing a Re-origination Array in the new raid.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:22 pm 
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I noticed everyone keeps saying Pack Leader, and I'm not sure if you're referring to the Legion artifact trait it the BfA trait Pack Alpha. Sorry, definitely not trying to be nitpicky, I just wanted to make sure I was reading things right because I read the patch notes today and apparently they're removing Pack Alpha as a trait in 8.1, replaced with Dire Consequences.

Which seems to mean that AC will likely not be a good pick even if you stacked those traits? If so, that sucks. It needed some serious tuning last I saw (unless you stacked 3 pieces of those traits) on its own, but I haven't used AC talent in a few months. Is it better now?

This was the patch note:

"Dire Consequences (replaces Pack Alpha) - Kill Command deals 525 additional damage, and has a chance to summon a Dire Beast."

Of course, I could be reading wrong, this I came here to look first lol.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:31 pm 
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Illustrious Master Hunter
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It's still considered a significant dps loss compared to Killer Instinct. This is what Icy Veins has to say about it:

Animal Companion is a significant damage loss compared to Killer Instinct. On top of that, it adds another element of pet AI reliance to your gameplay, and we do not recommend it for any situation. Keep in mind that this talent reduces your pet's damage done by 40%. It is not nearly as good as it looks on paper. This talent can be worth using if you have more than 2 ranks of the Pack Alpha Azerite Trait.

So it can be worth using, but it would require you to stack three ranks of Pack Alpha in order to reach that potential, and that wouldn't be necessarily easy to do. Disregarding Dazar'alor, it is mandatory right now that you have either Archive of the Titans or Laser Matrix. That alone will take one rank and thus make it so that Animal Companion cannot compete with Killer Instinct. Primal Instincts also comes out over Pack Alpha in ST situations (if barely).


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Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:28 pm 
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Valnaaros wrote:
It's still considered a significant dps loss compared to Killer Instinct. This is what Icy Veins has to say about it:

Animal Companion is a significant damage loss compared to Killer Instinct. On top of that, it adds another element of pet AI reliance to your gameplay, and we do not recommend it for any situation. Keep in mind that this talent reduces your pet's damage done by 40%. It is not nearly as good as it looks on paper. This talent can be worth using if you have more than 2 ranks of the Pack Alpha Azerite Trait.

So it can be worth using, but it would require you to stack three ranks of Pack Alpha in order to reach that potential, and that wouldn't be necessarily easy to do. Disregarding Dazar'alor, it is mandatory right now that you have either Archive of the Titans or Laser Matrix. That alone will take one rank and thus make it so that Animal Companion cannot compete with Killer Instinct. Primal Instincts also comes out over Pack Alpha in ST situations (if barely).


Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. If AC still required to stack 2-3 of a trait that will be gone tomorrow to be good.

Dang, was so hoping to switch back to the more fun build. :C

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Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:56 am 
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I would of still used animal companion if I didn’t hear that it decreases 40% of your pets damage, if I was able to have pack leader on my armor, I would have done so


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Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:04 pm 
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I'll still use it for running around town and world quests, but I'd really like it if it were viable for something useful.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:46 am 
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Okay I'm almost a month late for this one, but...

Valnaaros wrote:
It's still considered a significant dps loss compared to Killer Instinct. This is what Icy Veins has to say about it:

Animal Companion is a significant damage loss compared to Killer Instinct. On top of that, it adds another element of pet AI reliance to your gameplay, and we do not recommend it for any situation. Keep in mind that this talent reduces your pet's damage done by 40%. It is not nearly as good as it looks on paper. This talent can be worth using if you have more than 2 ranks of the Pack Alpha Azerite Trait.

So it can be worth using, but it would require you to stack three ranks of Pack Alpha in order to reach that potential, and that wouldn't be necessarily easy to do. Disregarding Dazar'alor, it is mandatory right now that you have either Archive of the Titans or Laser Matrix. That alone will take one rank and thus make it so that Animal Companion cannot compete with Killer Instinct. Primal Instincts also comes out over Pack Alpha in ST situations (if barely).

Val, you shouldn't take too seriously what that guy writes on his guides outside of the MM one, as he's extremely biased for that spec and he doesn't really test out the talents if he thinks one of them is the best. I've read his posts on another forum and he has a holier than thou I'm always right you're always wrong attitude. Not saying he isn't right on some things, but sometimes it's not for the real reasons and more because he's biased.

That said, it is true that Animal Companion does less damage in the long run compared to Killer Instinct, on raid and dungeon bosses and enemies that last a long time. The reason the pet's damage is reduced by 40% is because of the second pet, who also does 40% less damage, so basically they both do 60% damage each, 120% total. While that 20% more damage can be nice there is one big problem, and that's when you want to solo stuff. The 40% less damage affects the healing your Ferocity pet receive from Predator's Thirst, so even a Clefthoof is going to get less healing.

Animal Companion is fun to use if you're not in a serious raid group, Mythic+ group, or trying to solo hard enemies. Killer Instinct is better for those.

And for people who like the Dire Beast talent, it does some AoE damage if paired with the Stomp talent. It's not mentioned in either of their tooltips, nor in the Icy Veins guide, but the dire beasts use Stomp when they land on their target, as long as both talents are used together.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:58 am 
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Oh, I am aware, but it doesn’t change the fact that what he said was true. Besides that, others on the Icy Veins forums and other forums have tested out the talents and have come to the same conclusions.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:55 am 
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He might be right (I say might, but he genuinely is), but cross referencing, simming, in-game practicing, etc are still good ideas, was what I was getting from the posts (like how some specs have different builds/playstyles that are viable based on personal playing style and ability). Also, seconded that he's not a nice guy as I've had personal experiences with him. If I don't have anything nice to say, I'm probably talking about him.

I run AC when it's not a serious activity - heroic islands, for example, when everything just sort of melts around us and min/maxing isn't so necessary. Once progression raiding starts, or if another group has allowed me in for a drop or a quest, talents get changed to max my damage. I'm usually too busy watching mechanics, timing utility, etc to worry about how many pets I have anyway.

Unless I have none out. Then that's a pretty serious issue, lol.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:21 pm 
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Arguments aside, I figure I'd mention how useful Animal Companion is in world PvP. Seriously, the mindgames that ensue from siccing two pets on someone are downright hilarious. I can't count how many times I've killed an enemy player that keeps attacking my Animal Companion pet because they don't realize my Spirit Beast is the one keeping me alive. XD

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:10 pm 
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I felt like using AC again, so I chose the talent, during PVP, dungeons, raiding, I’ll use Killer Instinct or Dire Beast if I can’t get full use of Killer Instinct. Animal Companion may decrease damage by 40% which makes your 2 pets do 60% each, 60%+60%=120% damage, it still a little amount of damage compared to Killer Instinct

Edit: The 120% damage may not be true, so I don’t know really how much the 2nd pet deals


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