Giggle's Guide To BM - PVE

[Gigglemonsta]

Ok so I hijacked a topic by accident in another thread, so I figure I may as well make a guide

This is a work in progress, so lacks A LOT of detail, so please forgive me!

I also make no bones about it, I'm not the greatest BM hunter around, I have in no way mastered it, but I do raid ICC weekly on my hunter, and usually top DPS as BM

I hope this guide helps, I have a feeling it will turn into one like my Holy Priest guide - http://knightsofhorde.guildlaunch.com/f ... &gid=31704 - which still isn't finished btw LOL!

Anyway here she blows:

Giggle's Guide to Beast Mastery:

BM is actually more about managing cooldowns, and its harder to get right than most people think. It is roughly 10% behind survival and marks, assuming correct gearing (for each spec) and skill. 99% of the time you can beat a marks/surv hunter if you know your rotation well and outplay them. I'm a firm believer in playing the spec that you love, and most people will outperform in their favorite specs, and under perform in a spec they hate, but have been told is fad of the month.

That said, Im not trying to bag on Surv/Marks hunters. I personally love BM, and always raid as it, and as such I hope I can share some experiences and advise.

The below is written in Specifics for BM.

Gear -

BM hunters should simply use regular hunter gear. RAW AP on gear is the best, as it goes to your pet (armor pen etc doesn't). That said its not worth overthinking, and regular hunter gear is fine .

For an awesome gear guide see Kalliope's Hunter gearing list - http://forums.wow-petopia.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=755

Pets -
For the most DPS in PvE, you will want a ferocity pet. Any ferocity pet will do, the difference between them is minimal (talking like 100dps at level 80 difference between the worst Ferocity pets and the best).

Below are 4 common BM pets:

1) Wolf
Every man and his dog has a wolf (giggle get it?). In theory this is the most dps, as it buffs your AP with furious howl.

2) Devilsaur
The highest DPS pet (as in the Devilsaur does more dps than any other pet itself). It's not quite enough to topple the wolf in hunter+pet combined (due to the wolfs buffs on the hunters end), but this is the classic BM raiding pet. It is rather large though and can annoy people, so be wary

3) Cat
Everyone loves kitties! Kitties are great pets for DPS.

4) Spirit Beasts
My personal favorite I use spirit beats for raiding.

Note: I use a Spirit Beast for raiding, and love it. Yes I have tried a wolf, and I'm not kidding when the DPS is seriously like 100dps difference tops.

In summary - USE what pet you want to! (as long as its ferocity). We are hunters! Lets not all have wolves because we do 20 dps more on the spreadsheet by having one Mix it up a bit!

Stats -
- Attack Power is our number one stat. It transfers to our pet and gives us the biggest boost.
- Crit comes in second. We need enough crit to proc Cobra Strikes, but dont sacrifice raw AP for crit.
Haste is relatively useless as we already have a lot of haste, and can end up capped (with rapid fire up). Haste does speed up our auto shots however, increasing dps a little.

AGI vs AP?

I go with all AP gems. This is because I started doing this cause it was better. These days on female dwarf, in 10 man raid buffs I gain 8 dps going all Agi, but lost like 100 dps if I go all Agi in 25 man buffs. If your gear is already AGI stick with Agi, theres not much difference between the two. Having Agi gems also allows you to duelspec, unlike if your all AP gems, your pretty much BM4LYFEYO. Agi has less raw AP than AP gems, but also provides a tiny amount of crit.

My recommendation - If your only gonna ever be BM, go AP gems, if your gonna duelspec, go Agi. There is not a huge difference. 99% of the time Agi is the right way to go.

Glyphs -

Recommended:

Glyph of Steady Shot - One of our bread and butter spells. This makes it even better
Glyph of Serpent Sting - Means we don't have to put it up as much, AND we save on mana.
Glyph of Kill Shot - More Killshots when the boss is sub 20% = a lot of damage. Add adds into the fight and we're humming.

Not Recommended:
Glyph of the Hawk - A haste buff. As BM we get pretty close to the haste cap (especially with rapid fire up), however there is thoughts that this may benefit our t10 set bonus. It also increases our auto-shot DPS, and is a viable option - More testing to come.

Glyph of Bestial Wrath - Useless. If the fight is longer than 5:40 minutes, you win an extra BW. How many fights are longer than 5:40 mins? Is an extra Bestial Wrath worth it compared to our other glyphs? Female Dwarf's spreadsheet says no.

Heres an interesting quote from the wow forums on this -

"This glyph was nerfed when they nerfed the duration of BW. A glyphed BW will be off cd every 1:04 as opposed to 1:24. Fights shorter then 5:20 minutes will not see an additional BW in the fight. Now, if you can line up your cds with the shorter length you might be able to optimize it more. An example of unglyph being better is Greatness deck procs nearly ever 45 seconds. So, on average it will proc 2 times in 90 seconds. Bestial wrath is up in 84 seconds, so delaying bestial wrath by 6 seconds you can line it up with greatness. Putting a pot or a 2 min cd on top of that can give you good burst damage. In order to do this with a glyph, you'd need something that procs every 70 seconds". - Dreamsdrunk (Eldre'Thalas)

Shot Rotation -

BM has a basic shot rotation. With 2 piece t9, Serpent Sting is first, else without it, its a lower priority.

Basic Rotation/Boss Rotation:

Starting Macro > Serpent Sting > Arcane Shot > Multishot > Steady Shot

Whenever Serpent Sting is up on your target, other cooldowns and AS and MS are on cooldown, spam Steady Shot.

Why multi-shot not aimed shot? Multi does MORE single target DPS than aimed does, and we don't have to spec into it.

On Trash:

(Less than 4 targets) - Single target dps

Starting Macro (on one mob) > Serpent Sting > Arcane Shot > Multishot > Steady Shot > Kill Shot It should be dead by now

(4 targets + ) - Multi target dps:

Starting Macro (on one mob) > Multishot > Volley. Whenever your Volley has finished, if Multi is up use it

=> A lot of hunter DPS comes from managing cooldowns. More on this later.

Macros -

Heres where the fun begins:

As a BM hunter a lot of our dps comes from cooldowns. I have two main macros (amongst thousands that i use but anywho).

Note: The sound sfx parts in the macros are there to stop the annoying sound when a spell isnt ready and u press it

Macro 1: STARTING MACRO

Code: Select all

#showtooltip Hunter's Mark
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast [target=targettarget] Intervene
/cast Hunter's Mark
/cast Kill Command
/cast Bestial Wrath
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/petattack

=> This one is the one I use when I send my pet places (including the start of a bossfight/trashpull). Whenever I refresh BW I use this one also. Chaining your BW with a Kill Command is a good dps improvement so I try to manage these together. Feel free to add any short cooldown moves to this.

=> The intervene part is there for when i use a tenacity pet with interve. I click on the mob and it makes my pet intervent to it (no need to select the person )

Macro 2: NUKE

Code: Select all

#showtooltip Rapid Fire
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast Rapid Fire
/cast Bestial Wrath
/cast Berserking
/cast Kill Command
/use 14
/use 13
/cast Call of the Wild
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1

=> Basically this pops ALL my cooldowns including trinkets (I've probably missed a few moves off there). I use this at the start of a bossfight, and constantly mash it throughout the fight now and then. This is my long cooldown macro, and I save this for the bossfights/large trash packs (where I have time for them to come off cooldown in time for the boss).

Macro 3: Misdirect

Code: Select all

#showtooltip Misdirection
/cast [target=focus,exists,nodead] Misdirection; [target=pet,exists,nodead] Misdirection

MD's onto my focus target (right click and select setfocus on the maintank each raid , else if he is dead it md's onto my pet.

Macro 4: Serpent Sting

Code: Select all

#showtooltip
/cast [modifier:alt] Tranquilizing Shot
/cast [modifier:shift] Viper Sting
/cast Serpent Sting

All 3 stings on one handy button shift/alt and the button to use the others.

Macro 5: Aspect of the Viper

Code: Select all

#showtooltip
/castsequence Aspect of the Viper, Aspect of the Dragonhawk

One button press to swap between aspects

Macro 6: Melee

Code: Select all

#showtooltip
/cast Raptor Strike
/cast Wing Clip
/cast Disengage

Handy for both PvE and PvP, this one melees the target, then disengages you back to ranged distance all within an instant! It also slow em via wingclip.

Macro 7: Masters Call

Code: Select all

/use [modifier:alt] Master's Call
/use [modifier:ctrl,target=focust] Master's Call
/use [target=player] Master's Call

Automatically master's call on yourself (means you dont have to click yourself), unless u press alt, then you use it on your target

[Gigglemonsta]

How to chain these together?/Tips

- Save your BW/KC for when bloodlust is up or a higher damage portion of the fight comes up (i.e. icehowls smash into the wall). Don't hold off on BW\KC so long that you could have used it and had it cooldown by the time you actually use it (i.e. dont save it if theres > 1 minute until a certain higher dps phase). Use it as often as you can

- When the boss is below 20% HP use KILLSHOT everytime its off cooldown.

- Use your nuke macro during bloodlust/with bestial wrath

- Make sure you manage your mana (viper/pots) to have enough left to do a solid Bestial Wrath/Kill Command/ Kill Shot spam when the boss hits 20% hp.

- In heroic CoS set your pet on aggressive and win

- More to come

Spec -

Hunter -

Copy mine I've played around with several. If you have low crit (i.e. your just starting) dump 2 points from Mortal Shots into Survival instincts.

http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xm ... 0000000000

Pet -

http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xm ... 3010122&bm

Make sure to get bloodthirsty In this spec he heals a LOT and rarely dies (and if he does its a 3 second cast time with improved revive pet to get him up again )

Hope that helps! Any more questions hit me up!

To come

- A proper macros session with lots in there, including misdirect
- Discussion on what talents, and why - including pets.
- A Discussion on what pets, and why
- Minor Glyphs, and further testing.
- How to use viper
- Raid buffs/flasks/food
- Tidying up the format to make it easier to read
- Any more you can suggest!

edit: Oh lawdy I got some work ahead of me

[Kalliope]

First off, you're my hero for raiding and raiding well as BM. (Psst, wtb WMOs.) Would love to see what your buffs are like too!

Just wanted to draw attention to your gemming choice, because it's a frequently asked question among hunters:

AGI vs AP?

I go with all AP gems. This is because I started doing this cause it was better. These days on female dwarf, in 10 man raid buffs I gain 8 dps going all Agi, but lost like 100 dps if I go all Agi in 25 man buffs. If your gear is already AGI stick with Agi, theres not much difference between the two. Having Agi gems also allows you to duelspec, unlike if your all AP gems, your pretty much BM4LYFEYO. Agi has less raw AP than AP gems, but also provides a tiny amount of crit.

My recommendation - If your only gonna ever be BM, go AP gems, if your gonna duelspec, go Agi. There is not a huge difference.

I tend to recommend agility blanketly, but then, I never roll as BM-only and I like keeping my options open. HOWEVER, you're looking at an endgame scenario, which is different. I guess BM hunters are like combat rogues then? Pretty cool, tbqh. I may try doing something like this on Kalli (my blood elf hunter) or Kallimon somewhere down the line.

THANK YOU for this guide; I hadn't realized that the BW glyph was useless for raiding.

[Tahlian]

Giggle:

Thanks for doing this. If there's anything I can help to contribute, let me know.

Re: the BW glyph. I use it, and I can't say it's useless...especially for fights like Festergut if it brings BW off cooldown faster and gives me another opportunity to break the Vile Gas disorient. But that's just me, your mileage may vary, etc.

[VelkynKarma]

You guys are both my heroes today

~VelkynKarma

[Valinai]

THANK YOU SO MUCH for posting this, Giggle! <3 <3 <3

I'm tweaking my spec and already re-glyphed. Definitely looking forward to more macro hints/help. I'm pretty out of the loop on those.

[Sharilar]

One tweak I can suggest(having used basically that same spec since 3.0.8) is that if you can't guarantee that you will always run with Ret pallies, also consider moving 1 or 2 points from Mortal Shots to Invigoration. I had a pally-less ICC10 guild run on Tuesday(really bad luck on who was able to make it) and without 2/2 Invig I woulda been in a world of hurt mana-wise. Also, once you hit around 50% crit Imp Tracking and Mortal Shots are about even in DPS worth, so you can move points from one to the other based on preferances, though that doesn't really matter in ICC much, since everything there is undead for the most part.

I also find what you said interesting about BW glyph and Kill Command. Up until the BW duration change, I had it set up so Kill Command always(and only) fired when BW was up, since with the glyph and 3/3 Longetivity there was only a ~10s or so difference between their cooldowns. I hadn't changed it since yet, but I'm guessing you would suggest just firing both whenever you're up, so you'd end up with:

BW/KC -60s-> KC -30s-> BW -30s-> KC -60s-> BW/KC

correct? I hadn't done the math to see if the 2KC without BW trumps getting that KC always with the BW, but in your experiance I take it it does? Or do you just not pop KC outside of BW anyways? I admit though at this point it's probably more of a convienince glyph than a powerhouse glyph... especially since the glyphed version syncs up nicely with CotW.(210sec CD on CotW with 3/3 Longetivity... you'd have to wait a minute after it comes off CD to pop it with BW, or hold off 30 sec on BW, and with glyphed BW typically they come off CD within each other's duration in my experiance.)

Also, while I haven't tried it yet going by the spreadsheet Glyph of the Hawk(despite appearances) is a close second to the Kill Shot glyph, because of the autoshot increase. One thing to think about here is the T10 bonus triggers directly off Autoshot, so if you have 2T10, perhaps it might be worth using in place of Kill Shot to help proc a couple more 15% boosts?

[Kalliope]

Also, while I haven't tried it yet going by the spreadsheet Glyph of the Hawk(despite appearances) is a close second to the Kill Shot glyph, because of the autoshot increase. One thing to think about here is the T10 bonus triggers directly off Autoshot, so if you have 2T10, perhaps it might be worth using in place of Kill Shot to help proc a couple more 15% boosts?

Probably depends on where your gear/spec puts you in relation to the haste cap. Autoshot is linked to that as well, not just steady, right?

Dunno how it translates for BM, but the 4p bonus procs a hell of a lot more than the 2p bonus overall.

[Gigglemonsta]

THANK YOU SO MUCH for posting this, Giggle! <3 <3 <3

I'm tweaking my spec and already re-glyphed. Definitely looking forward to more macro hints/help. I'm pretty out of the loop on those.

Great to hear! Let me know if it helps your dps

You guys are both my heroes today

~VelkynKarma

<3

Giggle:

Thanks for doing this. If there's anything I can help to contribute, let me know.

Re: the BW glyph. I use it, and I can't say it's useless...especially for fights like Festergut if it brings BW off cooldown faster and gives me another opportunity to break the Vile Gas disorient. But that's just me, your mileage may vary, etc.

No problem me bruddah!

I also used to use the BW glyph and loved it. It just doesn't make a difference on that many bossfights. Glyph of Killshot (or even the hawk) would provide more milage on the average fight.

First off, you're my hero for raiding and raiding well as BM. (Psst, wtb WMOs.) Would love to see what your buffs are like too!

HEHE <3 I'll get u some screenys of the giggle in action

Just wanted to draw attention to your gemming choice, because it's a frequently asked question among hunters:

I tend to recommend agility blanketly, but then, I never roll as BM-only and I like keeping my options open. HOWEVER, you're looking at an endgame scenario, which is different. I guess BM hunters are like combat rogues then? Pretty cool, tbqh. I may try doing something like this on Kalli (my blood elf hunter) or Kallimon somewhere down the line.

I agree. The difference between the two is minimal, and 99% of hunters on here will already be gemmed agi/have a duelspec that needs it So theres no point going all AP, unless your going BM for good. I find a small dps increase in 25 man buffs using all AP gems. Raw AP also translates to your pet more, and I prefer having a higher AP than the marginal amount of crit Agi gives you. Thus I think in the real world (i.e. not on a spreadsheet) AP may yield slighty more, but I haven't actually tested this myself - so don't quote me on it!

Also AGI scales with kings by 10%, so the more you have the better it is. In this sense it may in fact overtake raw AP in full ICC gear - maybe even enough to actually make a difference between the two

My recommendation is to go in Agi gems

THANK YOU for this guide; I hadn't realized that the BW glyph was useless for raiding.

HEHE while not useless, it just isnt quite as good as the others NP I like writing guides if it helps people! I just gotta get my ass round to finishing this one

One tweak I can suggest(having used basically that same spec since 3.0.8) is that if you can't guarantee that you will always run with Ret pallies, also consider moving 1 or 2 points from Mortal Shots to Invigoration.

Not sure why you mean ret pallys, I guess you meaning judegement of wis, or replenishment But I have often wondered this myself, as more mana would help a lot (less viper time). I found that I actually lost DPS on the spreadsheet when I specced just as you stated above (I have considered this before - we are on the same page!!! <3).

I do think however, I was assuming full buffs including replenishment. I might give this another whirl through the spreadsheet and see what it yields when I get more time, but Shar you do have a very interesting point! More to come on this!

I had a pally-less ICC10 guild run on Tuesday(really bad luck on who was able to make it) and without 2/2 Invig I woulda been in a world of hurt mana-wise. Also, once you hit around 50% crit Imp Tracking and Mortal Shots are about even in DPS worth, so you can move points from one to the other based on preferances, though that doesn't really matter in ICC much, since everything there is undead for the most part.

I also myself am an alchy on my hunter, so I get the free neverending mana pot each fight Maybe this is why the spreadsheet showed the difference in dps. Im going to re-run it without the mana pot, and without replenishment/jowis.

I also find what you said interesting about BW glyph and Kill Command. Up until the BW duration change, I had it set up so Kill Command always(and only) fired when BW was up, since with the glyph and 3/3 Longetivity there was only a ~10s or so difference between their cooldowns. I hadn't changed it since yet, but I'm guessing you would suggest just firing both whenever you're up, so you'd end up with:

BW/KC -60s-> KC -30s-> BW -30s-> KC -60s-> BW/KC

correct? I hadn't done the math to see if the 2KC without BW trumps getting that KC always with the BW, but in your experiance I take it it does? Or do you just not pop KC outside of BW anyways? I admit though at this point it's probably more of a convienince glyph than a powerhouse glyph... especially since the glyphed version syncs up nicely with CotW.(210sec CD on CotW with 3/3 Longetivity... you'd have to wait a minute after it comes off CD to pop it with BW, or hold off 30 sec on BW, and with glyphed BW typically they come off CD within each other's duration in my experiance.)

*brain explodes*

Dreamsdrunk on the wow forums puts it best.

"This glyph was nerfed when they nerfed the duration of BW. A glyphed BW will be off cd every 1:04 as opposed to 1:24. Fights shorter then 5:20 minutes will not see an additional BW in the fight. Now, if you can line up your cds with the shorter length you might be able to optimize it more. An example of unglyph being better is Greatness deck procs nearly ever 45 seconds. So, on average it will proc 2 times in 90 seconds. Bestial wrath is up in 84 seconds, so delaying bestial wrath by 6 seconds you can line it up with greatness. Putting a pot or a 2 min cd on top of that can give you good burst damage. In order to do this with a glyph, you'd need something that procs every 70 seconds."

Actually it looks like Kill Command is a 1 min cooldown, so Glyphed may actually line it up more with this. Sorry I think I was wrong in my above post (I can't find where I read about Kill Command and BW and their relationship).

I will take that part out of my guide. Also on cross reference, the fight time for the glyph being useless is only 5mins 20 seconds. Most fights last between 5-10 minutes, is one extra bestial wrath worth getting in 2-5 more killshots?

I still think you will gain more dps without it, I noticed mine jump when I ditched it, and the spreadsheet shows mine increase when I don't use it on a 10 min fight.

Also, while I haven't tried it yet going by the spreadsheet Glyph of the Hawk(despite appearances) is a close second to the Kill Shot glyph, because of the autoshot increase. One thing to think about here is the T10 bonus triggers directly off Autoshot, so if you have 2T10, perhaps it might be worth using in place of Kill Shot to help proc a couple more 15% boosts?

:O *hides* Yes, very good point. Glyph of the Hawk is another viable option and in 2 piece t10 - It may even be better. I have considered running Glyph of the Hawk, but the spreadsheet shows my dps drop when using it

Also as mentioned as BM we are pretty close to the haste cap with rapid fire up, so it may become less useful in full t-10!

[Awenina]

I have a question, the Multishot in your macros, would this not aggro the wrong mobs? Not done many instances, play mostly solo. Is it different for a raid as it is for solo in that the tank can keep the aggro where it belongs?

[Kalliope]

Just wanted to draw attention to your gemming choice, because it's a frequently asked question among hunters:

I tend to recommend agility blanketly, but then, I never roll as BM-only and I like keeping my options open. HOWEVER, you're looking at an endgame scenario, which is different. I guess BM hunters are like combat rogues then? Pretty cool, tbqh. I may try doing something like this on Kalli (my blood elf hunter) or Kallimon somewhere down the line.

I agree. The difference between the two is minimal, and 99% of hunters on here will already be gemmed agi/have a duelspec that needs it So theres no point going all AP, unless your going BM for good. I find a small dps increase in 25 man buffs using all AP gems. Raw AP also translates to your pet more, and I prefer having a higher AP than the marginal amount of crit Agi gives you. Thus I think in the real world (i.e. not on a spreadsheet) AP may yield slighty more, but I haven't actually tested this myself - so don't quote me on it!

Also AGI scales with kings by 10%, so the more you have the better it is. In this sense it may in fact overtake raw AP in full ICC gear - maybe even enough to actually make a difference between the two

My recommendation is to go in Agi gems

Ahh, yes, I would think that as well, since there's tons of agility loaded up on the ICC level gear. That's why I asked to confirm. ^_^

One tweak I can suggest(having used basically that same spec since 3.0.8) is that if you can't guarantee that you will always run with Ret pallies, also consider moving 1 or 2 points from Mortal Shots to Invigoration.

Not sure why you mean ret pallys, I guess you meaning judegement of wis, or replenishment

In the above context, I would assume judgement of wisdom. It bears mentioning that ret pallies bring a raidwise haste buff too.

[Gigglemonsta]

I have a question, the Multishot in your macros, would this not aggro the wrong mobs? Not done many instances, play mostly solo. Is it different for a raid as it is for solo in that the tank can keep the aggro where it belongs?

In most raids/instances tanks AoE tank, and little CC is done. I haven't seen CC used since The Burning Crusade!

That said, it is something to be mindful of when using Multi-shot. If in the rare occasion you are cc'ing, simply skip this from the rotation and steadyshot instead.

On bossfights, we have free reign, as its just the boss

One other thing I do is set a macro to misdirect onto the tank in any dungeon/raid. I then use misdirect before each pull, so the tank has ample threat anyway.

[Gigglemonsta]

Ahh, yes, I would think that as well, since there's tons of agility loaded up on the ICC level gear. That's why I asked to confirm. ^_^

You make me scared about having to fully regem lol

[Kalliope]

I have a question, the Multishot in your macros, would this not aggro the wrong mobs? Not done many instances, play mostly solo. Is it different for a raid as it is for solo in that the tank can keep the aggro where it belongs?

In most raids/instances tanks AoE tank, and little CC is done. I haven't seen CC used since The Burning Crusade!

General's trash in Ulduar!!!! xD

Ahh, yes, I would think that as well, since there's tons of agility loaded up on the ICC level gear. That's why I asked to confirm. ^_^

You make me scared about having to fully regem lol

Haha, sorry!!! xD Wasn't the intention. I'm sure with the flat ap buff from a marks hunter's TSA or some other equivalent, the numbers work out right in your favor.

I'm just curious if BM really is the equivalent to combat rogues or if hunters are different than rogues on this front! xD

P.S. OMG, you named Arcturis Paddington??? WIN!!!

[Sharilar]

I'm the same way with AP... started with it, and spreadsheet suggests that the difference is in the single digits for me. That's not enough for me to bother buying that many red gems to go from AP to Agi. For referance, my gear is almost all ICC, apart from a 2-piece T9 that I can't swap out yet since I've only got 3 pieces of T10. There seems to be a crit line that I'm straddling, which depends on your AP. Crit goes too low compared to your AP, and the Agi gems rate as better. Crit gets above a certian amount, and Agi is better.

Not sure why you mean ret pallys, I guess you meaning judegement of wis, or replenishment But I have often wondered this myself, as more mana would help a lot (less viper time). I found that I actually lost DPS on the spreadsheet when I specced just as you stated above (I have considered this before - we are on the same page!!! <3).

Yep! The reason I mentioned ret pallies is that in my experiance holy and prot pallies prioritize judging Light over Wisdom, so if you end up with only one pally in your 10-man and it's not a ret pally(or with 0 pallies like in my example above) that lack of JoW hurts. As an aside, the ret pally aura buff overwrites FI anyways, if people are in range of both. :/

I still think you will gain more dps without it, I noticed mine jump when I ditched it, and the spreadsheet shows mine increase when I don't use it on a 10 min fight.

Yeah, like I commented, in the end it's probably more of a convienience glyph because of the way it helps line BW up with CotW and Kill Command.

:O *hides* Yes, very good point. Glyph of the Hawk is another viable option and in 2 piece t10 - It may even be better. I have considered running Glyph of the Hawk, but the spreadsheet shows my dps drop when using it

Also as mentioned as BM we are pretty close to the haste cap with rapid fire up, so it may become less useful in full t-10!

Does autoshot have an actual haste cap? I hadn't heard of one. If you're referring to the haste cap for Steady Shot, BM hits that just with normal gear and Serpent's Swiftness, let alone with RF. Now it isn't something you'd want to intentionally gear for at all(*glares at the war token with all that delicious AP... stupid haste*) because yeah, it only impacts our autoshots, but for me when I run the numbers on the spreadsheet in my 2T10 Kill Shot only comes ahead by 8 DPS. When the potential is over 10k, that easily enough to get lost in the noise of any normal encounter. That's one of those choices I guess that comes down to "flavor" like my comment above about Imp Tracking vs Mortal Shots in high end gear... it comes down to how much of a part that you mind the RNG playing.

[Gigglemonsta]

Does autoshot have an actual haste cap? I hadn't heard of one. If you're referring to the haste cap for Steady Shot, BM hits that just with normal gear and Serpent's Swiftness, let alone with RF. Now it isn't something you'd want to intentionally gear for at all(*glares at the war token with all that delicious AP... stupid haste*) because yeah, it only impacts our autoshots, but for me when I run the numbers on the spreadsheet in my 2T10 Kill Shot only comes ahead by 8 DPS. When the potential is over 10k, that easily enough to get lost in the noise of any normal encounter. That's one of those choices I guess that comes down to "flavor" like my comment above about Imp Tracking vs Mortal Shots in high end gear... it comes down to how much of a part that you mind the RNG playing.

Sorry I think my language was confusing

Yes it gives you a small increase on your autoshot dps, but it will have no benefit on our spammy shot - Steady Shot.

For this reason its slightly less useful to BM hunters than others, some people think its great, others aren't so sure.

I think I may have to do some testing!

[Tahlian]

Yeah...as has been said, the difference between AP and AGI gems seems, at least for beast masters, to be a matter of personal preference. When I ran my gear through the femaledwarf spreadsheet and swapped all my AP gems for Agi gems, I lost .001 damage. So I've just stuck with the "old school" AP gemming because it suits me.

I'll have to re-spreadsheet myself once I get my T10 gloves to see if the Hawk glyph is worth switching in.

[Gigglemonsta]

Added a few sections in including pets, tidied up the formatting. I will go hard on this when works not so busy!

[Sharilar]

Oh, and until Giggle can get some macros up, I thought I'd contribute a few.

Here's what I'm using for my main "spamming" button, aka Steady(when I have my Devilsaur out):

#showtooltip Steady Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Rabid
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Monstrous Bite
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Bite
/cast Steady Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

I use an addon called Macaroon for my action bar, which can be set to change to different bars based on what pet I have out, so I can put all the pet abilities in the steady button. Putting in at least the melee attacks is a good idea right now, as there's a known bug that delays the Bite/Smack/etc due to the pet AI's rangechecker not checking as often as it should unless you force it to try to cast. I handweave in my other shots, so my other "shot" abilities look like:

#showtooltip Arcane Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast Arcane Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1

So I can spam them when they're about to come up without annoying myself. To avoid accidentally Serpent Stinging twice doing that, I use:

/castsequence reset=8/target/combat Serpent Sting, null

So once I cast Serpent, the button won't work again until either a) 8 seconds have passed, b) combat ends, or c) I switch targets.

My Misdirection macro is rather simple:

/cast [target=focus, exists] Misdirection
/cast [target=pet] Misdirection

If I have a focus target, it MDs to my focus, otherwise it goes to my pet. My Tranq Shot is similarly set up:

/cast [target=focus,harm] Tranquilizing Shot
/cast Tranquilizing Shot

It'll go to my focus target if it's hostile, and if I don't have a hostile focus, then it goes to whatever I have targeted.

[Kalliope]

This is slightly off-topic, but since it's on the subject of haste....

There's NO HUNTER SPEC that actually goes for haste more than any other spec, correct?

I have exactly three haste pieces in my current gearset, pieces I am stuck with due to a combination of poor drop luck, item level-based upgrades over pieces that were already not ideal, and needing to hit cap. For some reason, this prompted another hunter to ask me if I was going to go survival with all that haste.

I have absolutely no idea where he got this from and he's not the most knowledgeable of hunters, so I'm rejecting the question on those grounds (besides, I'm unlikely to spec anything other than marks again on Kalli, unless they massively change the playstyle in Cataclysm). However, it got me to wondering if BM hunters end up "gearing for haste" because armor penetration doesn't drop down to their pets.