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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Shade wrote:

And Xakaal, I edited my post above-didn't think anyone would respond so quickly, if what I edited in makes my point a little better. It takes me a little time to organize my thoughts the right way this early in the morning.


Just read it *been busy cleaning*

To the topic of Spirit Mend being considered OP:

Pets of all specc's already get the buffed stam and armor, thunderstomp has nothing to do with healing (and would nullify the need for using the spirit beast heal on myself if the pet could keep aggro off me), growl only has one perk in relation to healing and thats the talent Silverback :3 But again, if my spirit beast could heal via growl, it wouldnt need to use Spirit Mend as often or at all if i dont mend it. I hardly have to heal my tenacity pets in the first place and a lot of key things they have can be found in the other specc's. Spirit Mend wont ever make them OP tanks, since tanks are designed for survivability and can do fine with or without the mend.

To the argument of what might happen to exotics and talent trees in general:

I have absolutely no idea if we're losing our talent trees for one specific tree where we choose one talent every 15 levels but if we are losing our trees, i am wondering how this will play out. When the new system was announced, i first thought that we would still specc as BM or MM or SV and we'd have these specific talents to choose from but the perks of what we're trying to specify into (such as say, being MM and getting MM only perks but choosing talents from the same tree that BM's and SV's get) but now im starting to question if they're wiping specc's completely. I havent seen any information prior to right now that has made that clear to me so im quite confused now.

In a way i do sort of hope that we do get 'specc perks' but choose from the same tree as the others so that exotics stay with BM specc. I just as much as many of you here would and are dying to use a, say, devilsaur in a different specc or your spirit beast or your worm, but its sort of what made BM unique.. i was forced to start figuring out BM specc when we got the ability to tame exotics and it was awful at first but then i grew to love it and i felt special XD If they are doing away with specc's in general, i wont have any quarrel against it, but i will be a little on the sad side.

When people discussed the idea of us choosing our pets trees at will, i just thought that they were giving us the ability to change their specc but have their trees remain as they are right now. Then when i read the quote, i just figured they were making it more like our new trees but still having them in specific specc's as we know em today.

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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:37 pm 
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Shade wrote:
And in my example, I said a TANK-specced spirit beast, with his heal ability, would seem a little op,


But that's my point, given the damage a boss does, that Spirit Mend isn't that strong, and is probably weaker than a turtle's shield.

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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:38 pm 
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Slickrock wrote:
I do want to know how we are going to be compensated for the loss of the 4 talent points, if we get anything in return at all. Right now, it's just gone.


I don't want to jinx it or anything but we must get some kind of compensation else BM is pretty much a totally useless spec except for the taming of pretty pets.


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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:50 pm 
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Everdeen wrote:
Slickrock wrote:
I do want to know how we are going to be compensated for the loss of the 4 talent points, if we get anything in return at all. Right now, it's just gone.


I don't want to jinx it or anything but we must get some kind of compensation else BM is pretty much a totally useless spec except for the taming of pretty pets.



Well, BM damage is being boosted in some areas, and nerfed in others, so it's too soon to tell for that (The KC change is nice, as well as the addition of beast cleave).

But, the BM talent itself seems pretty weak right now, with the loss of the 4 points.

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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:06 pm 
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Everdeen wrote:

I swear to god this had already been said... like... ages ago. o.O I remember seeing something a while ago about being able to use any pet for any role...


It was mentioned back at Blizz-con, but it was never confirmed until now. All we knew was that they were considering the possibility of doing it, but it may not have happened at all. Now we know they're going with it. :)

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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:13 pm 
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Jessibelle wrote:
Shade wrote:
I am anxious to see it implemented.

One of the nice things about being a BM was the secondary/exotic abilities of our pets, not that they were just exotics themselves. Are those pets going to get to keep their special ability AND their exotic ability? That the thing that has me worried/nervous about this change. Those extra abilities I always considered to be one of the main perks of being a BM, and considering that BM is loosing the extra talent points to our pets, I'm concerned that BM will once again be considered the lowest spec for hunters. Back when I first started I would get laughed right out of raids if I was a BM instead of the MM that most raid leaders wanted.

*shrug*. Am tentively excited but not at all sure what to expect yet.

Why wouldn't they keep them? Their exotic ability had nothing to do with their trees.



Yeah I don't think they're changing Exotics at all. In fact, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the exotic pet design will still be aimed at the "BM Only pets" having extra skills and exclusive skills to bring to a raid (like Heroism buff).

So I'm pretty sure that exotics will still have "double the fun". These changes are more aimed at the talent-side of things.

I wouldn't worry about BM damage yet. Its way too early to tell on the beta since half the thing is either 'not yet implemented' or simply not working. But personally I have high hopes for BM this expansion.

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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:21 pm 
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Vephriel wrote:
It was mentioned back at Blizz-con, but it was never confirmed until now. All we knew was that they were considering the possibility of doing it, but it may not have happened at all. Now we know they're going with it. :)


Oohh makes more sense now lol, I was wondering why I seemed to be the only person who thought this had already been confirmed haha. Thanks Veph. (:


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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:44 pm 
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For non-BM hunters the crab and dog special ability isn't really "useless." That channeled root makes a fantastic tool for leveling hunters since you're usually pulling aggro from your pet anyway, the root allows you to pretty much kill the mob before it ever touches you anyway. It's one of the reasons I also recommend crocs and warp stalkers as leveling pets in my Pet Challenges. The only spec I wouldn't recommend crabs or dogs for are BM since KC interrupts their channel.

More on topic, I'm cautiously optimistic about this announcement. I really hope they treat our pets well since they just overhauled them for Cataclysm. I would love to see some of the more unloved pet species become more useful. I know I want to have a sporebat tank. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Currently it's been stated that the bleed mechanic is being removed for all classes (and thus, presumably, pets). It hasn't happened yet in beta, but it's still beta.

So yes, Hyenas/Rhinos/Boars are going to need something else. But at least that bleed was semi-useful (to MM directly and to other classes obliquely).

Channeled roots need to go, though, and the spell interrupts/slows, since 90% of things you find in instances are immune to them and they almost never happen at the right time anyway. Honestly, a pet shouldn't have a channeled /anything/ in my mind, since unlike warlock pets, the channel doesn't actually stop the aforementioned mob from doing anything (as per succubus, for example.)

And yeah, right now with Beast Mastery doing nothing but allowing exotic pets... that's basically neutering what is a VERY high level ability. Exotics aren't really any more powerful than regular pets, they're just slightly more versatile. They don't do any more damage, in any way shape or form, they just have some small extra bonus. I'm REALLY hoping they either do something else with it to make up for the loss of those missing 4 talent points, or else move it to the bottom of the tree so it's your Lv10 spec ability. To me, it'd be worth the nerf to be able to tame one of those nice brown Chimeras you see flopping around at Lv10 or 20, or grab the Kurken at-level.

And for those that say 'OMG HEROISM AT LV10'... realize that AT lv10, the haste boost of Ancient Hysteria at that level would probably be like +2 haste or such. Everything scales, so I really doubt anything an exotic can do would be a game breaker.

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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:53 pm 
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Shade wrote:
Jessibelle wrote:
Shade wrote:
I am anxious to see it implemented.

One of the nice things about being a BM was the secondary/exotic abilities of our pets, not that they were just exotics themselves. Are those pets going to get to keep their special ability AND their exotic ability? That the thing that has me worried/nervous about this change. Those extra abilities I always considered to be one of the main perks of being a BM, and considering that BM is loosing the extra talent points to our pets, I'm concerned that BM will once again be considered the lowest spec for hunters. Back when I first started I would get laughed right out of raids if I was a BM instead of the MM that most raid leaders wanted.

*shrug*. Am tentively excited but not at all sure what to expect yet.

Why wouldn't they keep them? Their exotic ability had nothing to do with their trees.


But some of those exotic abilities could make for super powered pets. A spirit beast tank with spirit mend? I can't see that staying around long, and it would be an unfair advantage over the other pet class. The combinations that we can make out of this have me thinking some pet abilities will be taken away or nerfed.

Thats no different than DKs having their self heals or a pally. Spirit Mend isnt a powerful heal....and even in pvp, a smart pvper goes after the hunter, not the pet.

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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:00 pm 
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I kill hunter pets in PvP for fun. >_> Especially if they're BM as killing the pet drastically reduces the hunter's capabilities. Plus, as a bonus, a lot of hunters freak out after you kill their pet. xD

Also, I used to be in the camp of "channeled abilities are useless" however, just because something has no use in a raid or dungeon, doesn't mean that it's useless for other aspects of the game. For those hunters leveling as SV or MM crabs, and dogs to a lesser extent, make for great solo questing companions. I also distinctly remember a point in time during Wrath where crabs were the top PvP pet. ;) While not preferred, they can still prove to have some usefulness in PvP.

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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:03 pm 
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All right, not 'useless'. But gimped.

For example, yes, now, a ferocity dog with his channeled root is tolerable. But when we can set our own talent trees?

Why on EARTH would you pick a channeled root, which will prevent all dps from the pet (nevermind the hunter's KC), when you could have a ferocity spider with a non-channeled ranged root, or even a crocolisk with a slow?

While somewhat viable now (I notice no one is leaping forth to defend crabs, only dogs...thus indicating 'ferocity' is the kicker), with the talent tree changes, channeled roots suddenly become much less attractive.

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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:04 pm 
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If I see a non-Ferocity BM pet I'll also nuke it if I can't get to the hunter...to at least cripple damage.

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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:04 pm 
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TygerDarkstorm wrote:
I kill hunter pets in PvP for fun. >_> Especially if they're BM as killing the pet drastically reduces the hunter's capabilities. Plus, as a bonus, a lot of hunters freak out after you kill their pet. xD

Also, I used to be in the camp of "channeled abilities are useless" however, just because something has no use in a raid or dungeon, doesn't mean that it's useless for other aspects of the game. For those hunters leveling as SV or MM crabs, and dogs to a lesser extent, make for great solo questing companions. I also distinctly remember a point in time during Wrath where crabs were the top PvP pet. ;) While not preferred, they can still prove to have some usefulness in PvP.

Well for fun is one thing. XD A serious pvper would go straight for the hunter.

I wish they weren't channeled but I'd never say they were useless. I've pvped with Alucard and Mordin.....they scared a few rogues in their time.

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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:19 pm 
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Nachtwulf wrote:
And yeah, right now with Beast Mastery doing nothing but allowing exotic pets... that's basically neutering what is a VERY high level ability. Exotics aren't really any more powerful than regular pets, they're just slightly more versatile. They don't do any more damage, in any way shape or form, they just have some small extra bonus. I'm REALLY hoping they either do something else with it to make up for the loss of those missing 4 talent points, or else move it to the bottom of the tree so it's your Lv10 spec ability. To me, it'd be worth the nerf to be able to tame one of those nice brown Chimeras you see flopping around at Lv10 or 20, or grab the Kurken at-level. .


Yep, it needs something.

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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:23 pm 
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I am defending crabs, actually, and just lumping dogs in because they happen to have the same ability, granted it's for them in their current state because I dislike seeing a blanket statement of "such and such pet is useless because they can't be used in a raid or dungeon environment." I do hope that crabs will not become obsolete in MoP because my crab is my favorite pet to use on one of my baby hunters.

Also, in a BG situation, it doesn't necessarily make someone less of a serious PvPer just because they kill a hunter's pet, especially if that hunter is BM. Kill the pet, cripple the hunter's damage. Generally BGs are so chaotic anyway that you have plenty of opportunity to knock the pet out and go after the hunter, or the hunter's not paying much attention to you or their pet anyway. If the hunter's focusing me then I go after them first, but otherwise I'll kill the pet. Every now and then I'll kill a warlock demon for shiggles as well, granted them resummoning said demon is fairly simple. xD

And for BM hunters, I would love to see taming exotics open to us at level 10, and if the exotic pets were to keep their secondary exotic abilities, then those can always unlock at level 69 (or whichever level Blizzard prefers). The reason I say this is that I think BM hunters getting Heroism right off the bat is a little unfair to shamans and mages unless they change it for those classes too.

Edit: wanted to say that I agree, Nacht, that channeled abilities on pets that aren't doing damage are bad. The fact that pin locks the pet up for its duration is largelt crappy outside of leveling.

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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:32 pm 
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Oi, (on the Beta) Beast Mastery now has the Longevity, "reducing the cooldown of your pet Special Abilities by 30%", placed into it. -__-. Albeit a decreased version of it, without the reduction on Bestial Wrath. But that also changed too.

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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:36 pm 
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I love my crab I use him all the time to tank. I rotate him and my turtle.

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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:25 pm 
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Really like these ideas...tho I'll admit...I never took any of those three abilities they mentioned LOL. I'd skip HotP for more dps talents, and the other two tanking talents for...other tanking talents heh.

Anyways, like the others have said tho, I hope they give BMs something else at 69, or make exotics an initial thing. Right now, BM is getting gimped (again).

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 Post subject: Re: GC update on pets XD
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:47 pm 
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Shade wrote:
But some of those exotic abilities could make for super powered pets. A spirit beast tank with spirit mend? I can't see that staying around long, and it would be an unfair advantage over the other pet class. The combinations that we can make out of this have me thinking some pet abilities will be taken away or nerfed.


Even if it seems 'overpowered' the whole point of exotic pets was to be something 'a bit better' than regular pets (mind you I don't mean obviously better, but the fact that spirit beasts [for example] were the same as Cats but had an extra ability to boot). I don't think a pet with spirit mend makes it automatically better than any other pet who can tank. I mean a turtle's ability may still be better depending on the situation.

Besides, when you come down to it, there's always going to be a pet who can 'do something better than another pet can'. There's no way to get around that. So I doubt they will be nerfed or taken away.

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