Hunter Talent Updates

[SpiritBinder]

I... I'm not even sure they know what they're doing anymore.

Exotic Beasts once again lists a cooldown reduction of Pet Special Abilities by 30%, up from 0%.

^ Totally Agreed

.... my head hurts.

[Aggannor]

Ok, and now it seems to have been cancelled, as MMO-Champion doesn't list it anymore, unlike at the morning...

*scratches head*

[Slickrock]

Another problem in this mess is there doesn't seem to be a concise official patch notes with all the changes, I looked at the official one last night, and it only listed about half of the things that have been discussed. Stealth changes breed mistrust.

[Nachtwulf]

Well, if they revert the haste changes, I won't complain. It's possible that it might have been a datamining error too... MMOC's stuff is not -always- right, and also stuff on the PTR changes all the time, that's why it's a 'test' realm.

Quite possibly it was an effort to 'increase the cooldown of special pet abilities' until someone realized that it's not necessary (and in fact, is a fat nerf) when dealing with NON-cc pet abilities like the buffs (which for functionality's sake should have a close to 100% uptime) and the handful of dps abilities... so they nerfed individual cc pets and reverted the overall speed buff.

[Ziarre]

I like that theory. We'll see if it holds out when some full patch notes are posted!

[Slickrock]

Well, if they revert the haste changes, I won't complain. It's possible that it might have been a datamining error too... MMOC's stuff is not -always- right, and also stuff on the PTR changes all the time, that's why it's a 'test' realm.

Quite possibly it was an effort to 'increase the cooldown of special pet abilities' until someone realized that it's not necessary (and in fact, is a fat nerf) when dealing with NON-cc pet abilities like the buffs (which for functionality's sake should have a close to 100% uptime) and the handful of dps abilities... so they nerfed individual cc pets and reverted the overall speed buff.

It's NOT a datamining error. Get on the PTR and see for yourself. Exotic now gives a 1% reduction in the cooldowns for those special abilities.

It's also marked a release build, so expect these changes to go live.

I suspect that these were all kneejerk reactions to PVP QQ, and we'll see even more changes in 5.4.

[Aeladrine]

I swear, all this nonsense makes my head hurt. I can't comprehend why most of these changes are happening, and didn't we get a nerf recently, anyway? I don't remember seeing anything specific about it, but I do remember my focus regain suddenly tanking halfway through my runs for mounts. Suddenly, I never had focus, even though I hadn't changed anything in what I was doing or any of my armour.

Regardless, it's nice to know that making alts to level is actually going to pay off. My main is on a PVP realm, and I already have problems trying to defend myself when I get attacked out in the world. I almost never survive. Now I'm never going to get any questing done.

[Nachtwulf]

Well, to be fair, that's what you get for being on a PVP realm. I -hate- getting ganked by overgeared/overleveled players being asshats, soooo... I didn't roll PvP. I think if I'd been on a PvP realm as a start realm, I would've stopped playing the game in helpless apoplectic fury within about two weeks of starting.

[Maizou]

They've hinted on twitter that hunters might be almost completely redesigned in the next xpac.

[Nachtwulf]

Well, if they revert the haste changes, I won't complain. It's possible that it might have been a datamining error too... MMOC's stuff is not -always- right, and also stuff on the PTR changes all the time, that's why it's a 'test' realm.

Quite possibly it was an effort to 'increase the cooldown of special pet abilities' until someone realized that it's not necessary (and in fact, is a fat nerf) when dealing with NON-cc pet abilities like the buffs (which for functionality's sake should have a close to 100% uptime) and the handful of dps abilities... so they nerfed individual cc pets and reverted the overall speed buff.

It's NOT a datamining error. Get on the PTR and see for yourself. Exotic now gives a 1% reduction in the cooldowns for those special abilities.

It's also marked a release build, so expect these changes to go live.

I suspect that these were all kneejerk reactions to PVP QQ, and we'll see even more changes in 5.4.

Just because that's what the tooltip says right this second doesn't make it right either. Tooltip errors happen all the time. A previous poster said they'd reverted the changes; it just might not have bounced back to the tooltip. After all, everyone agrees that either way, '1%' is silly, and Blizzard would just remove the boost completely if they were in fact going to nerf Exotic Beasts and not leave it at a mathematically absurd level.

Have you tested the numbers in practice? Or are you just going off the tooltip? Hell, there's tooltips in live with spelling/typo/wrong values in them.

[Nachtwulf]

I'm... not sure we need the warlock treatment, but then again I do feel the specs are unnecessarily similar. I'm not averse to them changing it up, though... I mean, I adapted fairly quickly to the new mechanics for 'locks (and finally destro is viable, YAY.)

Right now, we suffer from button bloat, too-variable mechanics, spec similarity... and while I wouldn't say our rotation is too complicated (hur hur cat druid hur), I -do- feel like there's too much crap to worry about in it. I don't remember having to do this much plate spinning as an afflic lock. I don't like having to obsessively stare at my cooldown meter instead of paying attention to the fight.

[Aeladrine]

Well, to be fair, that's what you get for being on a PVP realm. I -hate- getting ganked by overgeared/overleveled players being asshats, soooo... I didn't roll PvP. I think if I'd been on a PvP realm as a start realm, I would've stopped playing the game in helpless apoplectic fury within about two weeks of starting.

Honestly, if it weren't for the fact that hunters have been sucking so much, I wouldn't mind being on a PVP realm at all. But that's really not the point at all. The point is that we're getting hit again, and I'm already perpetually nervous about trying to do dungeons. Especially PuGs. We barely hold our own as far as DPS as is, and how often am I going to get blamed for doing the best my class can, now?

The point is that these changes make things much harder for us, and I can't comprehend why they're happening. We're really not very good in PVP. I've never seen a hunter able to do stunlocking, but every time I come across a rogue they can.

Mostly I'm just frustrated about this. What's the point of nerfing us like this when our DPS is already awful?

[Slickrock]

Well, the frustration for me is that the nerfs are due to what the best of the best can do with the class, while the rest of us get nerfed along with them, even though we might not have been close to those levels.

I wish more nerfs could be applied more in the way of diminishing returns, which would soften or eliminate the blow for average hunters.

[Maizou]

I'm... not sure we need the warlock treatment, but then again I do feel the specs are unnecessarily similar. I'm not averse to them changing it up, though... I mean, I adapted fairly quickly to the new mechanics for 'locks (and finally destro is viable, YAY.)

The hinting that has been going on specifically said it wouldn't be as big as the warlock revamp, but enough to make the specs feel different and unique again.

I assume rogues will undergo a warlock change though.

[Slickrock]

Some change is certainly needed..

[Tahlian]

Given how many threads I've seen whining for BM to be a melee spec and waving Rexaar around like a banner...I think there are some changes that don't need to be made. I've played BM for 9 years now as a ranged class, and I really really would not appreciate seeing myself suddenly shoehorned into melee.

Now other things about the class, I can definitely agree might benefit from a redesign. But sadly, I think the thing most in need of an adjustment about hunter is something that Blizzard can't fix. And that's the class' tendency to destroy itself from within, by fussing that their preferred spec isn't the top spec of all. I only ever have wanted BM to be able to do well, never for the entire class to feel forced into the spec. If they would just make all 3 specs relatively equal, then we could all play what we want to instead of people screaming for nerfs to other trees.

[SpiritBinder]

Given how many threads I've seen whining for BM to be a melee spec and waving Rexaar around like a banner...I think there are some changes that don't need to be made. I've played BM for 9 years now as a ranged class, and I really really would not appreciate seeing myself suddenly shoehorned into melee

Personally, I do like this idea, but to make BM a melee class would be so much of a change that they mays well entirely new class all together imo. Also now with the dead zone removed (apart from the lack of melee weapons) one can be in melee range shooting things in the face if thats what one really likes

The one that I hear the most, which I could possibly see them doing (although again it is still a decent change imo) is to make MM have an option to do away with their pet all together, and have more of a "ranger" type feel. It probably not the most popular idea on this forum, but there is quite a desire for it on many other forums.

One set of ideas I read elsewhere was making BM much more in tune with your pet. More effects and clever ideas and not just KC, possibly even more ways to increase your pets DPS at a sacrifice to yours for certain periods of time.

Make SV more about elemental DPS and traps and DOTS. Give it access to higher utility, at the cost of some DPS if wanted and maybe a group/party buff/cool down. Not just the "I HAZ GOOD AOE'S" spec.

And finally making MM more of a slow and steady, hard hitting sniper"esque" spec. Possibly even more cast times on shots, but of course do more damage to on the shots to equalize damage. And also give them the choice to remove their pet adding to their "Concentration" and gain a small buff in its stead.

I'm not sure if this is what they need to do to make MM feel like it plays differently, but I welcome anything to help define a difference between our specs.

[Maizou]

None of the current hunter specs will ever be a melee spec. None will ever not use a pet.

Blizzard has made it clear hunters are a ranged pet class. They would not change a spec so severely it's a completely different spec, as there are players who love the specs.

If they ever add a 4th spec, they may add a melee hunter or a petless spec, but they won't alter the current ones. The same issue with warlocks and tanking. They know a lot of warlocks want to tank, but they don't want to remove demonology DPS, as a lot of warlocks love it.

[Lisaara]

Myzou, Blizz says a lot of things but that doesn't mean they can't change their minds when they see "Hey, this might actually be kinda cool."

They've changed their minds plenty in the past. I don't see why this would be any different in the future.

[Slickrock]

Well, look at the options warlocks have with their pets with the tier 90 talent. Would be intresting for BM to have a "merge with pet" MM to be petless and take on some aspect of the pet, not sure what SV would get.

The thing it needs to do is offer choice. I wouldn't want to remove pets across the board from MM, but what if it was an option, probably through a glyph?

The real problem I see is that our pets, especially with the recent round of nerfs, in actual gameplay are really indistinguishable from other pet classe's pets. Our pets do no enhance us in unique ways anymore, and that's where the real flavor could come in.

Think about an MM hunter taking a flying pet to increase damage at max range, or an SV hunter taking a scorpid to increase nature damage, and a BM taking an exotic for other special boosts. Might be hard to balance, but would make things more interesting.

All that aside... I don't think we'll see anything done with this until 6.0, for the rest of this expac we are gonna see hard nerfs and bandaid buffs.