More BM artifact variants
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- Pepsi Jedi
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Re: More BM artifact variants
- Lupen202
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Re: More BM artifact variants
Actually, if you train and condition an animal they shouldn't be afraid of guns. Rhyela is completely correct (and how were they being an ass?).Pepsi Jedi wrote:You're laughing and being an ass, but people are talking about the 'lore' the 'feel' the 'concepts' of the class being big and key in this expansion. While the guns 'sound effect in the game' has been muted, that doesn't change the fact that guns are loud and do scare animals. So while you're waving your hand and laughing at people, know that you've missed the point.
You can see this a lot with police dogs and horses, such as those used in hunts. Do they get spooked from the yelling and the gun fire? No. At least they shouldn't. If my hunter's pets were easily spooked by a little gun shot they'd be a pretty terrible raiding companion.
I hate the gun but that really is a crappy argument.
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- Pepsi Jedi
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Re: More BM artifact variants
It's not a crappy argument if it goes against someone's concept of how/what they're playing. That's like looking at someone and telling them that their views on which race is most fun to play is wrong, because you think another one is and it's only 'logical'.
- Lupen202
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Re: More BM artifact variants
But our hunters pets aren't just any animal. These are animals that have tanked the most terrifying of monsters, killed countless enemies and have heard the roars of dragons. And yet you're telling me that they're able to be frightened by the sound of a gun? Seems to me your pet is either poorly trained or simply a poor choice for a companion :p
Maybe a freshly tamed beast would be unnerved by gunshots for a time ... But that still doesn't make the argument a good one. And I don't see how by explaining that the argument is a weak one Im ruining someone's "class fantasy"? It is nothing like telling someone they shouldn't play the race of their choice. At all.
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Re: More BM artifact variants
And that's just Fluffy's most recent foe after facing flocks of fire elementals, armadas of awakened insects, fleets of furious demons, waves of walking corpses, squads of skeletal abominations, camps of cultists, litters of Lovecraftian horrors, and troops of time-traveling orcs.
For our pets to withstand what they do in an hour of game time, they must possess a fortitude and strength of mind much stronger than any real-life creature. Guns are not a problem for our pets.
- Rhyela
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Re: More BM artifact variants
Basically, it's a game. If my three-headed stitched-together hydra pet can stand toe-to-toe with undead dragons that road a LOT louder than these neutered guns, then I honestly can't imagine how a gun could possibly frighten them. This isn't real life, and I'm not going to consider real-life concepts of animal fear in a debate on guns. If someone wants to talk about the design or back story or whatever, fine. But the "pop" sound of the gun scaring Fluffy the Devilsaur? Ehhhhh.
Edit: also, not all hunters use kitties and doggies. What about the spiders and snakes and beetles who one could argue don't even have ears? Are we going to consider that? Is Timmy the Tapeworm scared of something he can't even hear? Bah. I get what you're trying to say, I really do, but 11 years after launch isn't the time to suddenly worry if our imaginary guns are frightening our imaginary pets.
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- Pepsi Jedi
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Re: More BM artifact variants
It was already pointed out to you that in this instance people were talking about the 'fantasy' of the class, or the feel of it. Still you refuse to acknowledge that, and instead choose to again point out that the sound file has been changed to a little poot sound. Yeah... We know. Know how we know? Because SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many people complained about the loud gun sounds that they changed it due to high demand. The file was changed. That doesn't suddenly mean that the people on Azeroth suddenly built in sound suppressors in all the guns. It was the change of a sound file in a game due to repeated and constant complains from the playerbase about it. They didn't change it just for giggles. So many players complained that it was loud and annoying to the point they'd always transmog over guns to not have to hear it or have custom addons to cover it up, or some guilds and raiders wouldn't even let hunters in if they were running guns because it was so bad, that the developers finally listened.
In your snarky reply you straight up said 'I refuse to consider real life concepts... in the debate" Well then.... who cares? If you refuse to consider another person's concepts it's not a debate. you're just typing to try and score points off them. You say you're ok to talk about the design or back story (Which would cover such things, but you'd rather ignore them) But the new sound file scaring an animal? Ehhhh.
Don't worry. We get what you're trying to say. You're very clear in your post. You think some other people's concepts are stupid and see no problem with insulting them and talking down to them. Now if only it was done in such a fashion that was actually clever enough to hide your clear disdain.
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Re: More BM artifact variants
I think it would be awesome if they could have somehow tied Rexxar or some other well-known hunter to the lore for the artifact. While I appreciate their desire to come up with something different, at the moment, none of it seems to really...mesh. Is that the word I'm looking for? It's like the lore doesn't really seem to have much to do with BM, and then the weapons themselves don't really look like they have anything to do with Mimiron. I mean, I'm sure with some time, they can invent some neat designs. We've seen them before with other weapons like the Voice of the Quilen gun. Or, if they could make them have some really neat effects instead of bullets (I'm thinking caster shells a la Outlaw Star, peeps!)? There's a lot of potential there, I think, but it just hasn't quite come together yet.
Then again, I'm one of those hunters who likes the rather "traditional" looking guns such as the Mark "S" Boomstick. Mmm.....so...boomy. There's something about a nice wooden stock and a big barrel that I love. So, regardless of what the artifact gun looks like, I'll probably mog it over with something considered "bland".
Oh glob! I think I just piddled a little; someone made a 3D papercraft one!!!
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Slickrock wrote:Given their current trend, we'll probably get a spirit toucan that farts loops.
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Re: More BM artifact variants
They could have done better. Every expansion has someone, class, spec, race, etc that feels like it's left out. Seems this time BM is one of those.
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Re: More BM artifact variants
Yeah, what's odd to me is that it seems like Survival is really getting this cool re-design and a fun spear (although I personally always loved dual-wielding back in ye olde days, but still); even MM is getting some interesting design changes with the removal of the pets (though that is understandably a polarizing decision). BM is kinda like...bleh.Pepsi Jedi wrote:They could have done better. Every expansion has someone, class, spec, race, etc that feels like it's left out. Seems this time BM is one of those.
It's still early though, so there's plenty of time for things to improve. I'm still voting for lasers or blobs of plasma as ammunition! >:D Although, as others have said with the elekk gun, blobs of anything might look a bit...yucky.
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Slickrock wrote:Given their current trend, we'll probably get a spirit toucan that farts loops.
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Re: More BM artifact variants
And I agree. Don't want the snot rocket to look more snot rockety.
Re: More BM artifact variants
Or a cat crossbow...
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Re: More BM artifact variants
Now, I happen to agree that BM hunters would be better off with bows, and MM hunters with guns, but not because of the sound the gun makes. Rather, my case is that when someone says "marksman", I think that generally conjures up an image of a sniper, taking out foes from a long range. And when someone thinks of a sniper, they perhaps tend to think of a rifle - which is a gun (obvi, lol). I think a marksman would be much better suited to a ranged weapon crafted with the most technologically advanced sights, scopes, barrels, ammunition, etc. And in that scenario, it would make much more sense, in my mind, for the most advanced weaponry to be crafted by the most advanced race (or one of, anyway) - the Titans. When I think of a Beast Master, I think of a hunter that's out scouting the wilds with their pets, and when I think of a scout in the woods, I think we'd all generally agree that a bow would be the weapon of choice. Not because of the sound either ranged weapon makes (although it would kind of work out that way, wouldn't it?), but because I think of, for example, the night elven maidens stalking around Teldrassil atop their sabers and with bows in hand. It just feels better overall.
So again, I apologize if I sounded like I thought anyone was stupid. I don't. The argument in and of itself isn't necessarily stupid either, I just think it's twelve years too late. If we want to come up with reasons to be against BM hunters getting guns, by all means, let's hear it. It's just that that particular argument is too little, too late. It would be too immersion-breaking to now, all of a sudden, start worrying about the sound our guns make when our pets have been dealing with it for so long now. And if they tried to go back and say that was the reason for changing (not that I think they will, but if they did), I might throw my computer out the window.
Does that make sense? I tried not to exaggerate or sound insulting, but I still stand behind my reasoning.
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Slickrock wrote:Given their current trend, we'll probably get a spirit toucan that farts loops.
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Re: More BM artifact variants
the minute I could switch from a gun to a bow in any previous expansion (pre-transmog era) I did so, often to the detriment of my stats. even if a gun had better stats I would stick to my bow. I've played this way since vanilla.
so I've ALWAYS played my hunters with a bow. the only time I started using some guns is after they changed the sound, and when they started making some rather interesting-looking sleek rifles with a bit of a sci-fi look to them. yes, I know that choosing a gun because it looks a bit sci-fi is anti-lore, but compare the legendary bow from Magister's Terrace with the new artifact guns, and it's pretty obvious that the ball was dropped from a design point of view. That bow looks magical and epic and... artifact-y. The guns they designed looks perfectly functional, and almost boringly "realistic".
By the way, my dog (IRL) was a serious guard dog, ferocious and frightening when she had her hackles up... and even after 16 years there were certain sounds that terrified her, no matter how often she heard them.
Also, I'd rather hunt my prey without making a deafening *BANG* with my weapon when it's time to take them out.
I've always thought of a BM hunter as a more stealthy, more "arrow out of nowhere", type of killer.
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Re: More BM artifact variants
- Rhyela
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Re: More BM artifact variants
That's another thing I thought of after I wrote my above post. Rather than going for real-life applications of any kind, it seems like they're looking to in-game NPCs that they feel best represent the particular spec. So, precisely as you said, the Windrunners for MM and Nesingwary for BM. So I can definitely see where they're going, even if my brain automatically thinks "marksman" = "sniper" = "super awesome gun".Melle wrote:Just imo. Nobody is ever going to agree on bows vs guns. But Blizzard is looking to Nesingwary for BM it feels and he uses big guns. MM it seems they're looking to Sylvanas/Alleria. The Windrunners. They use bows and not pets, but for a MM hunter... Well bows fit, if you think about it. No pets to distract them/be noisy when they find their targets. So they'd go for a bow, nice and quiet, and precise. A quick kill. That's my opinion, but at the end of the day its blizzard's choice which class has what. And the MM = Windrunners seems to be the way they're going now.
At the end of the day, regardless of who gets the guns, I just hope that they come up with some more appealing designs. As they are, they don't feel like weapons of legend, as has been already said countless times. However, I suppose we should be thankful that they aren't going for a Silithid Husked Launcher look. *shudder* Although I'm sure someone out there likes it!
Part of me is a little sad that crossbows aren't getting any love. I understand that they're not as widely used, but there have still been some that were quite neat. I think if they had had a bit more attention from the design department in the past, perhaps more folks would have used them? I've certainly never been opposed to them, there just weren't many that appealed to me. Without filters of any kind, wowhead shows 249 crossbows, 387 bows and 379 guns. There are 100 fewer crossbows total in game than the next fewest, guns. It may not sound like a lot, but that's 100+ possible designs that could have been made, 100+ potentially awesome-looking crossbows. Not that it needs to be perfectly even across the board, but dang. Poor crossbows never stood a chance.
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Slickrock wrote:Given their current trend, we'll probably get a spirit toucan that farts loops.
Re: More BM artifact variants
someday I'll find someplace to host a sig that isn't stupid money-grubbing photobucket
- Dewclaw
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Re: More BM artifact variants
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Re: More BM artifact variants
Re: More BM artifact variants
The Marksman artifact quest involves finding and helping the eldest Windrunner sister, The current owner of the family bow...MaximumOverdrive wrote: Feels so tacked on and not really thought out for the spec. Who does MM work with for their artifact? I really don't remember.