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I have a number of toons who are nowhere near finishing (some nowhere near starting) their class halls and class campaigns.

I finally got my Frost mage to 110 this week, and have been trying and trying to get a queue for (my LEAST favourite dungeon in the entire game) Eye of Azsara. The queues are incredibly long, and even when I wait the full time, the timers end up resetting to even longer wait times.

So obviously, no one is doing those dungeons anymore.

Ok, I WILL eventually find a group.
But what happens once the new expansion comes out? These dungeons that no one is doing now will be completely dead, and it will be impossible to do your class hall campaigns without them.

Add to this, some crafting recipes can ONLY be gotten in dungeons (which killed crafting for me).

What this works out to is, anyone with more than 1 alt (because we'll be getting a single 110 boost when the expansion comes out) will either have to pay cash for 110 boosts, or try and muddle their way through Legion solo.

It seems to me this is the first expansion (Legion) where subsequent generations of players will actually come to an impasse when they hit it, unable to find find groups for obligatory content.

Has there been ANY word about how Blizzard might change any of this BS?

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A bit of palindromic wisdom:
"Step on no pets!"
Casual player.. don't raid, don't PvP. Suffer from extreme altitis
I love pets - combat or non.
<That Kind of Orc> guild on The Scryers, small, casual LGBT and friends guild, join us Horde-side.

I've thought it was a ridiculous design from the beginning. Dungeons shouldn't be required for such a large portion of non-dungeon content.

For me, I'm going to wait and do the class hall campaign on my toons when I get to 120, should be able to do them solo then?

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Yeah, you don't have to do any of that stuff when it is current. In the future, one could just push to 120 and solo all of it. But as far as I'm aware, Blizz has no intention of changing any of it. They have already done extensive changes as is.

In regards to the recipes, it is easier and faster to apply to a Heroic or Mythic. Much faster queue time for Heroic compared to Normal, and there are usually plenty of Mythic groups.

Are you Ally or horde?
If Horde, add my battletag Bowno#1338 . I leveled up a tank druid and while she's not up to Ilvl900 yet.. She can still tank for you and try to make the queues a tiny bit faster :3


Class halls should be fine though in next expan. It will prob just take the way of the MoP farm and WoD Garrison.

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Siggy under construction!

for those who are fine with it.. how about having to do Legion raids? those won't be soloable at 120.
and they are required for a bunch of legion content including some recipes/patterns.

this concerns me greatly because this is actually the first expansion since vanilla where I've been current. But it's getting harder and harder to do so, as queues for the required dungeons are getting impossibly long.

now, I may be current, but there's no way I'm getting into a mythic dungeon or raid. the abuse against people with less experience is ridiculous. I did a normal dungeon on my Holy Priest, and was VERY careful about being clear that this was my very first time healing a dungeon as I was new to the Holy spec. Needless to say, I committed some errors, people died, and absolutely awful abusive language was hurled at me. (I blame the tank for being in a hurry, despite my warning, but then there's also the DPS - esp the hunter who ended up being the biggest jerk in the bunch - for not doing their part to "stay out of the fire").

(I'm horde, btw, but do have some alliance toons that I WOULD like to eventually get to level cap).

_________________

A bit of palindromic wisdom:
"Step on no pets!"
Casual player.. don't raid, don't PvP. Suffer from extreme altitis
I love pets - combat or non.
<That Kind of Orc> guild on The Scryers, small, casual LGBT and friends guild, join us Horde-side.

Not saying this will apply to everyone, but I see no reason Legion raids (at least on lower difficulties) can't be soloed next xpac - people have already started soloing certain encounters. At the very least, most of the fights should be very manageable with 2 players.

Increasing 10 levels on a toon will make a big difference. I haven't had any issue clearing WoD content and that's before current gear levels.

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My battle pets @ 935+ unique | My mounts @ 500+

I think if they're going to require grouping for core parts of an expansion, it should be in LFR, not dungeons. I don't feel nearly so self-conscious when I'm a much smaller percentage of the dps.

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They probably will, actually. WoD raids are currently soloable on Normal and Heroic (though not necessarily for every class/spec), and I'm sure Mythic can be soloed by some. With the incoming stat squish, it may make them even easier.

I personally haven't had many cases of bad or abusive groups in Mythic dungeons. Sure, I've dealt with the occasional jerk, but most have either been kind or quiet. I am very sorry to hear about that experience of yours. Of course, don't think that is how all or most groups are, because it isn't.

I think they implement them into Dungeons for two reasons. One, because more people partake in dungeons of some difficulty. And two, as seen in Legion, Dungeons have remained very relevant the entire xpac.

how exactly do you solo a LFR? doesn't LFR require you to actually look for a raid group?
I's confuzzled.

_________________

A bit of palindromic wisdom:
"Step on no pets!"
Casual player.. don't raid, don't PvP. Suffer from extreme altitis
I love pets - combat or non.
<That Kind of Orc> guild on The Scryers, small, casual LGBT and friends guild, join us Horde-side.

For current content, you queue up and wait to get in. For old content, Blizz adds a few npcs somewhere in the world so you can access the old lfrs. For example, if you want to run any of the MoP lfrs, you go to the Seat of Knowledge in Pandaria and speak to one of the Pandaren there. You queue up for whichever lfr you chose and are then immediately ported to that lfr.

This was implemented so that people could get the unique xmogs that are in the old lfrs. It stands to reason that Blizz will do the same for Legion.

I don't mind the normal dungeon content but I didn't like that a raid was required for a questline for an artefact skin. I mean I know it's just an appearance but I didn't like how you could do the other portions on that line but couldn't unlock them because the first element in the row was "Balance of power" that needed normal raid drops. I can understand maybe gating it for awhile but I think they should allow LFR to complete it after a time period. Just my 2 cents.

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Battle for Azeroth
Balance Druid ~Sakurie~ , BM Hunter ~Castile~, Prot Paladin ~Tsurani~

I do agree. However, Normal EN and NH are quite easy nowadays. At first they weren't, no, but that has changed after a couple patches

Thats all well and good them being easy now but where are you going to find a grp to do old content? Most people will be concerntrating on progression not doing old content for casual scum like me. And my point about the rest of that artefact line still stands - if you're going to make a raid required skin either have it as the last compenant or have the whole line raid related not just the first one that locks the other three out if you can't do it for whatever reason. It just doesn't make alot of sense to me.

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Battle for Azeroth
Balance Druid ~Sakurie~ , BM Hunter ~Castile~, Prot Paladin ~Tsurani~

And I have now come face to face with exactly the problem with this expansion.
My rogue just hit 110, I'm still not extremely comfortable playing him, but I'm working on it.
Now his class hall questline obliges me to go into a dungeon (Blackrook Hold), and of course, there ARE no groups who are doing it other than on mythic.
Even if I wanted to do the mythic (which I don't, it's too much stress for a simple game) my rogue isn't geared for it at all.
There aren't even any players doing heroics, which I COULD have tried to stumble my way through.

I've looked for premade groups, and I've tried LGF. Queues last over an hour, and I simply don't have time to sit around and wait. And no, I can't just go out and quest then go do the dungeon when it dings.That can happen in the middle of a quest, in the midst of battle, whatever. it's not a practical solution.

So other than the 3 toons I was able to level up to 110 very early on, all my other alts are having a hell of a hard time getting anything done that requires a dungeon, whether it's getting recipes/patterns or finishing their class hall quests.

_________________

A bit of palindromic wisdom:
"Step on no pets!"
Casual player.. don't raid, don't PvP. Suffer from extreme altitis
I love pets - combat or non.
<That Kind of Orc> guild on The Scryers, small, casual LGBT and friends guild, join us Horde-side.

Questing whilst waiting for the dungeon is, honestly, the best solution. That or you can try to get guildies and/or friends to help you out. In regards to the former, since you're a Rogue, you could just use Vanish to get out of combat and put yourself in a safe area (you may already know this, but I thought I would suggest it incase you don't).

But see how this expansion's design is defective?
The only assumption one can make is that Blizz's designers intended for players to play it, then immediately dismiss it the minute the next expansion comes out.

oh, I'm certain we'll get a free 110 boost when BfA comes out.. but "a" free boost does't help people with multiple alts, or simply people who actually enjoy going through the content.
That's what I've been trying to do with my rogue, go though content and experience WoW through the eyes of a rogue instead of a Hunter or Warrior.

_________________

A bit of palindromic wisdom:
"Step on no pets!"
Casual player.. don't raid, don't PvP. Suffer from extreme altitis
I love pets - combat or non.
<That Kind of Orc> guild on The Scryers, small, casual LGBT and friends guild, join us Horde-side.

I fail to see how it is defective. As time goes on, Normal isn't played as often since it is mostly for 100-109. 110+, people will run either Heroic or Mythic dungeons for better loot and such. Blizz does want to people to play the content, even after Legion is over, but it won't be nearly as relevant is BfA content. That is normal, though.

Val, I suspect you're misunderstanding what I'm saying.
Obviously, someone with one character, no alts, who is on current content, will have no need to revisit older dungeons.

However, more casual players, who often play multiple toons of multiple classes do have (and I gave a perfectly good example above) reason to be in somewhat lower-leveled content.

As an example, I still also have a DK alt, a Monk alt, and a Druid alt, all between level 100 and 105. At teh rate things are going, I will not have those toons at 110 before the next expansion since I also do have my mains to keep up-to-date. And as with the trouble I have had finding a group for a dungeon on my Rogue, I will have the exact same trouble with those alts.
I think this is poor design in that it is obligatory content (as compared to purely optional content that in no way affects your game play ability) that will become nearly impossible to accomplish once we near the end of this expansion, and certainly absolutely impossible once the next expansion begins.

_________________

A bit of palindromic wisdom:
"Step on no pets!"
Casual player.. don't raid, don't PvP. Suffer from extreme altitis
I love pets - combat or non.
<That Kind of Orc> guild on The Scryers, small, casual LGBT and friends guild, join us Horde-side.

No, I get what you're saying. I currently have 8 lvl 110s that I maintain daily. I do emissaries on each of them every day, do LFRs, PvP towers on some, etc. Further, I have a couple characters that are nearly 110 and will be joining the rest in all of the daily stuff. I usually have ~5 hours to do all of this every evening.

During the process of lvling from 100 to 110, if there is ever a quest that requires me to run a certain dungeon, I just queue up then continue about my business. Usually I'll quest in the meantime or gather mats. Once I reach 110, I get geared enough for Heroics (which is very easy with Argus), then just do that.

I don't think it'll be impossible. Quite the contrary. If you're in the upper 800s, you can probably solo a Normal dungeon (depending on class and spec). If that can be done now, then it'll be even easier in BfA when we're at 120. Blizz isn't removing the profession or the order hall quests, so they'll always be available.