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Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:10 pm 
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The Insane
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That might explain it. And explain the earlier comparison to complaints about warlock pet changes.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:19 pm 
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The more I think about this, the less I like it. It feels like running in circles to me.

Are the special abilities like Lust/Hero the only thing unique about the spec itself now? If the damage is normalized, then I assume things like Spiked Collar is removed or changed. And if thats the case, are other spec defining abilities also removed/changed, such as Rhino Blood? That sounds like steps both toward and away from homogenization.

Maybe battle Rez is too powerful to be a family ability. Maybe it should be the Cunning or Tenacity spec ability, and move Survival of the Fittest or MAster's Call to a family. Combine that with being able to choose a spec, maybe that could be a middle ground. It would allow for all sorts of combinations to combat homogenization (if thats even a problem worth combating) while still offering some restrictions with the spec passives. This would mean 3 hunters all with Spirit Beasts could bring a unique powerful ability each while able to use the pet they want.

Just spit balling. I hope theres some open discussion on it and not just a "this is how it is, make all the threads and tweets you want, it won't matter" approach.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:42 am 
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As I said, moving battle res to the Tenacity ability over Survival of the Fittest would be good.

Then give Cranes, Moths, and Quilens a different ability. (Dodge, Dispel, Mortal Strike, respectively)

Then just let us choose our spec for our pets.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:07 am 
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What about Thunderstomp? That's the main reason I ever keep pets in Tenacity in the first place. If they're totally scrapping that then it almost doesn't even matter what the specs are.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:21 pm 
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They are definitely reworking Demonology. They are more like summoners now instead of Imp Mothers

Abilities

Demon Commander: Summon a Demonic Commander to increase the duration of all of your current demons by 15.0 sec, and increase the damage of all of your other demons by 15%, while casting Shadow Bolt Volley at your enemies.

Molten Core: When your Wild Imps expend all of their energy, they have a 15% chance to combust into a ball of energy, granting you a stack of Molten Core.
Molten Core reduces the cast time of Soulfire by 75%. Maximum 4 stacks.

Soulfire: Calls down a demonic meteor full of Wild Imps which burst forth to attack the target.for until cancelled.
Deals up to 0 Shadowflame damage on impact to all enemies within 0 yds of the target
Hand of Doom
applies Doom to each target
and summons up to 0 Wild Imps, based on Soul Shards consumed.





Talents

Bilescourge Bombers: Tear open a portal to the nether above the target location, from which several Bilescourge will pour out of and crash into the ground, dealing 1 damage to all enemies within 0 yards.
Tier 4 Talent, in place of Soul Harvest

Demonbolt: Removed

Demonic Calling: Shadowbolt has a 20% chance to make your next Call Dreadstalkers cost no Soul Shards.

Demonic Consumption: Your Demon Commander now destroys and absorbs the remaining power of all of your Wild Imps to empower himself.
Tier 6 Talent, in place of Doom

Demonic Strength: Infuse your Felguard with demonic power, increasing all damage it deals by 100% and causing it to use a bonus attack every 5 sec for 20 sec.
Tier 4 Talent, in place of Hand of Doom

Summon Vilefiend: Summon a Vielfiend to fight for you for the next 15 sec.

Hand of Doom: Removed

Imp Swarm: Summon 5 Wild Imps around you.

Power Siphon: Instantly sacrifice up to 4 Wild Imps to generate 4 charges of Molten Core.

Riders: Hand of Gul'dan has a 25% chance per Soul Shard spent to spawn an additional Wild Imp.
Now requires Level 30, up from 10
Cost changed from 1 Soul Shards to None
Cast Time changed from 1.5 sec cast to None

Impending Doom: Removed

Implosion: Removed

Improved Dreadstalkers: Removed

Inner Demons: Imp Swarm is now a passive ability that summons one Wild Imp every 10 sec.
Every time this summons a Wild Imp, you have a 20% chance to also a summon an additional Demon to fight for you for until cancelled.
Tier 7 Talent, in place of Soul Conduit

Nether Portal: Tear open a portal to the Twisting Nether for 20 sec. Every time you spend Soul Shards, you will also command demons from the Nether to come out and fight for you.
Tier 7 Talent, in place of Demonbolt

Overloaded: Molten Core now makes Soulfire instant cast.
Tier 4 Talent, in place of Power Trip

Power Trip: Removed

Shadow Bolt: Removed

Shadowflame: Removed

Soul Harvest: Removed

Soul Harvest: Changed from Demonology/Affliction to Affliction

Summon Darkglare: Removed


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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:55 pm 
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https://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/108 ... r-azeroth/

Blue chiming in, I think overall I can see what they're trying to go for and it's not awful, I'm just not thrilled about the locked in specs. We won't get a battle res anymore which is a bit of a bummer but honestly trying to use it in end game situations was clunky and unreliable at best so maybe it's better this way.

I'll admit that my initial impressions were based on the worry that pets were being locked into the old specs as they had originally been - it hadn't been obvious at the beginning that damage had been normalized (to be fair though it came as such a shock at the time it's not hard to forgive people for not picking up on that during the initial confusion). I'm a lot more comfortable with the proposed changes now and I think we will get better choice overall and more variety.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:28 pm 
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Agreed, Veph. I was feeling the same way as everyone else during that initial phase of confusion and anger. But yeah, these changes seem better for choice, quality, and variety. And, honestly, I won't miss not having Brez. It was always annoying having to manipulate my pet over to where the corpse of the one I wanted to brez.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:47 pm 
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Vephriel wrote:
https://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1086048-hunter-pets-in-battle-for-azeroth/

Blue chiming in,....


That's the most blue text I've seen about hunters in one post in years.. :lol:

Looking at that post, that does change things. The removal of Brez hurts to some degree, but let's be fair, it was always clunky, especially in raids, where getting your pet to where the body was wasn't always easy.

This certainly makes spirit beasts much more viable again, but tenacity pets will certainly be the go-to for raiding.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:51 pm 
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Brez was handy, but cumbersome because I had to manually get my moth to flap over to a corpse that wasn't always easy to find...

Overall, these changes sound like they'll be a good thing. I'm unsure how I feel about locked specs, but at least the health and damage will be the same no matter which pet we use. Some of the spec changes make sense, others not so much. I'll miss Thunderstomp, though.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:37 am 
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I dunno, I'm looking forward to it personally.

I mean sure, tenacity might be go-to for raiding, or ferocity if a lust is needed. But that's still MILES better than what we have current - being forced to use just one or two families vs multiple. I have the freedom to bring a wolf, or a cat for lust now, not just rays or corehounds. That's amazing.

Sure it'd still be nice to pick what spec we want our pets to be, but I do like having a little thought into what I use. And seeing as they don't have any actual dmg or tanking advantages over one another, what spec you take is going to be so minor anyway.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:54 am 
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Unless BfA feels a lot different than Legion did when leveling, I'd argue that tenacity is still going to feel borderline required when you're out in the world until you gear up enough. Don't underestimate that HP boost—remember how squishy our pets felt when we first hit 110? A lot of that was mitigated by gear over time (to the point where I can use a pet in any spec I want out in the world against most things, instead of NEEDING a tenacity spirit beast or turtle), but get a fresh (<800 ilvl) hunter sometime, and you can see that basically nothing has changed on that front.

If they're actually straight up removing brez (which was not the case when we first started this thread), I feel a little bit better about it, though I still am not pleased with not being able to choose what spec my pets are. I'm not (nor do I expect to be) in a position where I'll be berated for not having the tenacity pet out all the time, but every time I die with just a small bit of overkill, I'll know that having a "real" pet out would have saved me :P

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:22 am 
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Yeah I guess, though leech will help with leveling as well.

I do hope though they tweak some of the specs. Hyenas & raptors should be ferocity IMO. Clefthooves make way more sense as tenacity. Scalehides make more sense as tenacity as well.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:29 am 
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At the same time, the Hunter who has grown attached to their spider named Fluffy should feel effective across the game.


Well, he names things "Fluffy" Must be an alright guy :lol:

But, my thoughts...

I kinda welcome the loss of battle rez. It was awkward. I'm sure I'll miss it at times, but I'll be glad not to fumble around with it.

When he says the most pets lack an ability right now, I can't help but think "yeah, they do, cause you took them away and didn't replace them" So, that feels a little like when they took our abilities away so that they could give them back in bits and pieces via legendaries and artifacts.

I don't like the name of "Survival of the Fittest." That phrase refers, in evolution, to the ability to produce offspring. It means the "fittest to reproduce" not the fittest rat in the gym. It has nothing to do with being physically tough, though it can. It's misused frequently and irks me every time I see it.

They really need to re-think their casting of certain families. I want to know by what logic a scalehide isn't tenacity, etc, etc. Hopefully that will be ironed out.

However, overall, I think this could work out. It's different, and some of it bothers me. But, it's not the end of the world and I look forward to most of it, tbh.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:46 am 
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Pet spec locking is still not okay. Especially since my favorite tenacity pets were changed out of tenacity baseline... tell me again why my thunder lizard is FEROCITY???


Everything is GREAT. FANTASTIC. Just... why are specs locked?! Going against what the blue is even saying, honestly..

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:53 am 
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It is still early on and they can change the specs based on feedback. It isn't like Scalehides are now stuck in Ferocity and can never be changed.

I don't see how it is going against everything the Blue said. Ferocity, Tenacity, and Cunning will all have the same damage, health, and armor. They can all tank and dps. Abilities like Blood of the Rhino and Combat Training will be rolled into every pet by default. The families will be made far more unique than they currently are, since there are several that do not have any abilities outside of the default ones. A pet having hero or not is irrelevant, since any decent raid group will have plenty of individuals capable of providing that.

Honestly, this isn't bad at all. So what if they're spec locked? It isn't like Ferocity will be doing more damage than Cunning and Tenacity, or Tenacity will have a better chance of surviving than Cunning and Ferocity. It really isn't a big deal.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:01 am 
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NazzyDragon wrote:
Pet spec locking is still not okay. Especially since my favorite tenacity pets were changed out of tenacity baseline... tell me again why my thunder lizard is FEROCITY???


Everything is GREAT. FANTASTIC. Just... why are specs locked?! Going against what the blue is even saying, honestly..
Can I asl you what kind of playstyle would be ruined if Scalehides are ferocity?

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:28 am 
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pop wrote:
NazzyDragon wrote:
Pet spec locking is still not okay. Especially since my favorite tenacity pets were changed out of tenacity baseline... tell me again why my thunder lizard is FEROCITY???


Everything is GREAT. FANTASTIC. Just... why are specs locked?! Going against what the blue is even saying, honestly..
Can I asl you what kind of playstyle would be ruined if Scalehides are ferocity?

Using that pet as my tenacity pet for the extra HP and CD. It's the only tenacity skin I really like?

Valnaaros wrote:
Honestly, this isn't bad at all. So what if they're spec locked? It isn't like Ferocity will be doing more damage than Cunning and Tenacity, or Tenacity will have a better chance of surviving than Cunning and Ferocity. It really isn't a big deal.

The simple fact that tenacity has the best cooldown/passive and that cunning will be the only pet you can use in PvP


Ferocity doesn't matter, and all of my favorite skins are ferocity. AKA UTTERLY USELESS because, as you said, lust is almost always covered anyways. Can't lust in arena. Don't need lust in raid. Why do I need lust in 5 mans or open world? Useless. Let me change the spec.

I wanted to use my wolf in arena since he'll have a slow, but guess what? Ferocity. Doesn't matter. Master's call is MANDATORY for any form of PvP. Can't use it. Great. Useless pet. I can use LESS pets in BfA than I can now.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:53 am 
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Honestly, this is a really stupid situation. Remove battle resurrection (STONE DOG BARK, GET BACK UP), remove Bloodlust/Heroism (DAT DOUBLE DOGGO ROARED, I SWING FASTER NOW), let pets swap specs for their own personal utility. If they're all the same DPS-wise, why would it matter what spec they're in? The bonus healer/Shaman/Mage abilities were always random and out of place, even if it was kind of cool to be the wildcard for buffs. Remove the Heroism from Ferocity, remove the bonus damage reduction to YOU (makes no sense again), make Master's Call a baseline BM ability and only work on you (balance), leave the Leech/Health/Speed as they are (maybe double them), and let players change specializations for the pets. Problem solved, Hunter pets back to being fun without being required.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:06 am 
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Curious if I am the only one who misses the days of Cata/MoP when hunters could bring almost any (all if BM) buff in the game to fill in the ones that were missing from your group. Was nice to have an excuse to swap pets. Still feels odd having so many stable slots, but not needing more than three.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:07 am 
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WerebearGuy wrote:
Honestly, this is a really stupid situation. Remove battle resurrection (STONE DOG BARK, GET BACK UP), remove Bloodlust/Heroism (DAT DOUBLE DOGGO ROARED, I SWING FASTER NOW), let pets swap specs for their own personal utility. If they're all the same DPS-wise, why would it matter what spec they're in? The bonus healer/Shaman/Mage abilities were always random and out of place, even if it was kind of cool to be the wildcard for buffs. Remove the Heroism from Ferocity, remove the bonus damage reduction to YOU (makes no sense again), make Master's Call a baseline BM ability and only work on you (balance), leave the Leech/Health/Speed as they are (maybe double them), and let players change specializations for the pets. Problem solved, Hunter pets back to being fun without being required.

Agree very much, especially with "If they're all the same DPS-wise, why would it matter what spec they're in?" -- really makes no sense. Feels like the specs are less unique in BfA than they are now.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761876043

This post sums up what I want to see fairly well, and has a different solution that I also like instead of just "let hunters change specs" --- this is still fine too and I'd be ok if they just let us swap specs again, but this post is very interesting.

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