WoW webcomics, and the legality of their stores.

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WoW webcomics, and the legality of their stores.

Unread post by Cerah »

As I'm sure a lot of you have noticed, there are quite a few online comics out there based on World of Warcraft, and most of them are quite good. I follow a few regularly, for the interesting storylines, characters, and humour.

However, I've been noticing a trend among a lot of them, the addition of stores to their websites, where the artists sell prints, comic collections, or even collectables based on their works. However, as their art is based off of someone else's (namely Blizzard's) copywrited ideas, I think these stores are asking for trouble.

Besides, as a fan artist in a different medium, I don't think it's fair. I write fan fiction, written literary works have their own characters and storylines, but are based in worlds that are other people's. Like fan comics, I consider fan fiction to have just as much artistic value as the originals on which they are based. However, as a fan fiction writer, I have accepted one rather glaring reality. If I ever tried to sell a fan fiction story, if I made so much as a penny off it, I'd probably have Blizzard's lawyers crashing down my door to sue me for every last penny my poor, broke, student butt has. Fan fiction writers cannot make money off their works, no matter how original or thought-provoking their works may be.

But visual artists seemingly have no problem peddling their works online, with not a worry in the world that they are breaking copywrite law just as much as fan fiction writers, if not more so. Just why is it that they can escape the threat of lawsuits just because of a different choice in artistic medium?

If any webcomic artists are reading this, I think they should be very careful as to what they're doing. Sure, continue to create, continue to share your art with the world, even use your "fame" as a fan artist to peddle your original works. But don't charge money for fan works. Don't sell products based on Blizzard's copywrited ideas. It's only a matter of time until they catch on, and when that happens, I'm afraid that many creative, original works may be purged from the internet.

To make things fair to other fans, and to protect your own asses, I humbly suggest that fan artists of all mediums keep things strictly amateur.

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Re: WoW webcomics, and the legality of their stores.

Unread post by Bulletdance »

There are fan sites that have permission to do such things. The profit is split between them and blizzard. There are many of them though that are not and books on programing to get around wow's anti-hacking. There are player guides and gold guides all unsanctioned too though.
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Re: WoW webcomics, and the legality of their stores.

Unread post by cowmuflage »

Well its just like all those people in cons that sell there anime art or ANYONE who does commisons. They too are breaking copyrite so its not just wow webcomics.........
Really the only BIG company that has a problem with this is disney and they will hunt you down for it. If blizz did not really like this they would of done something by now ya know? cos really when you think about it all fan art is breacking copyrightes(as you are useing someones chars without asking them). Alot of companys do not mind this as they see it as a big ad for there works. I know did this at school a few months back as we are going into this the animation world and heck it happens most to them.
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Re: WoW webcomics, and the legality of their stores.

Unread post by VelkynKarma »

I think there's a difference between 'influenced by' and 'downright copying,' first of all. The only webcomic offhand that I can think of that might match your criteria is Looking For Group, which is clearly influenced by World of Warcraft (and indeed makes quite a few jokes about it). However, it's really only design that they are influenced by. The guys obviously have their own storyline, their own worldbuilding, and their own goals with this webcomic. I don't think it'd be considered copying then...because when you get right down to it, what is original these days anyway? Even if a person thinks they've come up with something brilliant and original, I guarantee you at least five people have already done it.

That said, I WOULD have a problem (and probably Bliz too) with people blatantly marketing their webcomics as 'WoW comics' or something, and then taking profits anyway. If it hasn't been permitted by Blizzard (and I think there ARE a few exceptions, such as the fan comics and fan art sent in to them that's displayed on their website and such) then it's probably a big risk to try and make money over property that not only isn't yours, but you ADMIT to not being yours.

Fanfiction is the same way, but it can get tricky. I've written plenty of fanfics for series in which I just utilize the characters and put them in a new situation. There's no way you can bend rules there. The characters aren't yours, the worldbuilding isn't yours, the setting isn't yours, the only thing that IS, is the plot you decided to use with all these things. Fanfics are fun to write (and read) but you do need to understand you can't ever make anything off them or claim any of the work is really YOURS.

WoW fanfiction is a bit...tricky, though, I think. Because the worldbuilding IS all Blizzard's, as is the lore and a number of characters and npc's in the world itself. But YOUR character, the one that YOU roll? It might again borrow design characteristics from Blizzard's standard models, but they can't make the personality. You do. I know Blizzard claims everything created is still theirs, but I think it's a bit of a tricky area there, because it's your creative property there too.

Then again if you're desperate you can just give that personality and history a transplant as it were. Design a new character of your own and apply most of that stuff back to it...

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Re: WoW webcomics, and the legality of their stores.

Unread post by Gumballs »

People do art commissions all the time for Blizzard games, or any other franchise for that matter. I'm not sure if they are technically allowed to do so, but I've never seen anyone get in trouble for doing a painting of someones character for money. Im not really into the webcomic or fanfiction scene (meaning I dont do any myself, though I do read some), so most of this is coming from where my experience is based which is in art and fan art.

Edit: Also, like the above posters said, Blizzard may own the designs for the standard races, the armor, etc. But what about all the custom things on your characters, such as personality, personalized tattoos, skin colours, hairstyles and stuff that arent even in game?

Im pretty sure most companies just think of it as free advertising for them. Like, if someone sees an art piece done by someone of Kael'thas Sunstrider or Illidan and they think 'holy hell, thats awesome', they may decide to look up who it is, perhaps look up the video game, and perhaps begin to play. :)

I've actually opened a GM ticket in regards to this though because I would love to start doing WoW commissions and I am curious if it is technically legal or not. I never got a response. -_-
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Re: WoW webcomics, and the legality of their stores.

Unread post by Cerah »

VelkynKarma wrote:I think there's a difference between 'influenced by' and 'downright copying,' first of all. The only webcomic offhand that I can think of that might match your criteria is Looking For Group, which is clearly influenced by World of Warcraft (and indeed makes quite a few jokes about it). However, it's really only design that they are influenced by. The guys obviously have their own storyline, their own worldbuilding, and their own goals with this webcomic. I don't think it'd be considered copying then...because when you get right down to it, what is original these days anyway? Even if a person thinks they've come up with something brilliant and original, I guarantee you at least five people have already done it.
Looking for Group is actually one of the better ones. Yes, it was originally based on WoW, but the storyline and characters have evolved to the point that the story no longer takes place in Azeroth at all, but instead in the artists' own fantasy world. In LFG's case, it could be argued that it is "copying" WoW about as much as WoW is copying The Lord of the Rings -- both are fantasy series with some similarities (i.e. both have Orcs, Humans, Dwarves, (High) Elves), but besides that, are unique representations of the genre.

I have absolutely no problem with sites like Looking for Group having stores -- it's their own story, their own copywrite, why not?

However, for sites that blanently, unapologetically use Blizzard's world, well, I think they have to be more careful.

Some examples:

Daily Quests

Dark Legacy Comics

Coffin Comics

These all feature online stores, with absolutely no disclaimer saying that Blizzard's okay with them profitting off their fan art.

A possible exception would be World of Warcraft, Eh?, as the artist here also writes/draws Byron the Tauren Rogue for the site WoW.com, a presumably Blizzard-sanctioned site.

Comics that use the Warcraft universe, but don't sell a thing, or ask for anything from their viewers other than donations to help keep the site going include:

Tales from the Crossroads and By Way of Booty Bay, the latter of which draws WoW fanart as a sideline to his original works.

And then there's Strange Acquaintences which I believe falls into another category all together. Google that one if you want. I'm not posting a link, because ... well, let's just say it's not safe for work.


I'm not saying that people shouldn't create fan art -- the internet is all about self-expression, and gives people an opportunity to show off their talents that would be almost impossible otherwise. I'm just saying that it's probably not a good idea to advertize that they're making money off of someone else's copywrited ideas. It's asking for trouble, and I don't want to see creativity destroyed for the sake of greed.

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Re: WoW webcomics, and the legality of their stores.

Unread post by Vephriel »

Actually WoW.com is one of the fansites who have chosen not to link officially with Blizzard. This puts them at freedom to post things that they want to, and not be restricted in what they could and couldn't say about WoW and Blizzard in general.
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Re: WoW webcomics, and the legality of their stores.

Unread post by cowmuflage »

technically your not allowed to accept pay for anyform of comisson that uses copyritet things but really if blizz had a problem they would of done something about it by now as i have seen them post stuff from all those webcomics on their site and if they did not like what they were doing they would'nt. Blizz are not like disney who infact hate fanart in general XD (I have seen many people burned down by them). Its not private servers that really are in danger lol

I would not say the Daily Quests artest is being greedy (i have talked to her many times over email as shes a flash animator and i get tips from her) shes really quite poor like no food kind its the life of a 2D animator really. :(

You have not even pointed out that its even worse on deviantart they Incourage it! Have you seen how many people there do comissions for copyrited stuff? HEAPS! Don't worry bout some webcomics worry bout the dumb kids there!.
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Re: WoW webcomics, and the legality of their stores.

Unread post by Renle »

This is something I've wondered about, specifically about taking commissions for drawings of peoples toons.

Like on one hand the character was created in a game owned by blizzard, but on the other, the character, their personality, and any unique features they created for this toon are semi-property of the creator right?
So if the creator of this toon wanted to pay someone to draw a picture of their character, where lies the legality with this?

Sometimes copyright laws are confusing and hypocritical ><
Like how Wierd Al (loves him ^_^) can legally make millions from parodies of other peoples music, but Anne McCaffry can sue the pants of a teenager who made not a penny off a simple fan fiction :P

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Re: WoW webcomics, and the legality of their stores.

Unread post by cowmuflage »

well unless the player got a copyrite for their character they are NOT semi-owner of said character. :S unless you have a copyrite on said character you do not truely own it in a corut of law.
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Re: WoW webcomics, and the legality of their stores.

Unread post by Cerah »

Renle wrote:This is something I've wondered about, specifically about taking commissions for drawings of peoples toons.

Like on one hand the character was created in a game owned by blizzard, but on the other, the character, their personality, and any unique features they created for this toon are semi-property of the creator right?
So if the creator of this toon wanted to pay someone to draw a picture of their character, where lies the legality with this?
The problem I'm having is the unfairness of visual artists getting to skirt around copywrite laws with no real consequences, while language artists, i.e. writers, have no such option.

Using your logic, if my toon is the semi-property of me, then I should be able to write a story about her and perhaps be able to make a few cents a word off that story (the going rate for original short fiction -- assuming you can sell it in the first place -- is about 5 cents a word). How would that be any different, artistically speaking, than a visual artist charging for a commission?

The difference is that writers would be jumped on with both feet for even thinking of making a dime off their art, even though written art is just as artistic, takes just as much work as visual art. But because of a cultural double standard, one artist is considered copying, plagerizing, but the other is expressing him/herself.

With this cultural double standard in place, and the legal system set up so that it will not be changed any time soon, the only option available to fan writers is to take Looking For Group's road -- change their story to such an extent that it no longer takes place in Azeroth. Visual artists too, in my opinion, should have to take that road if they want to earn a profit off their art. They should not draw a Blood Elf, but rather a generic fantasy Elf that happens to look a lot like a Blood Elf (perhaps minus unique Blizzard features, such as the long, antenna-like eyebrows). Yet visual artists are not held to the same kind of copywrite scrutiny as language artists. This is not only technically illegal, it isn't fair.

The only way to make things fair to all amateur artists, no matter the medium, is if nobody gets paid, not even the small amount these online stores may be bringing in, for fan works derived from other people's copywrited ideas. Most companies (including Blizzard, excluding Disney) turn the other way in regards to fan art (and by fan art, I'm including both visual art and written art in the term), on the condition that the fan artists do not turn a profit. Any profit at all. Most companies see fan art as an expression of their fans love of the product, and as free advertizing. But they are rightly irked when people begin to make money off of original ideas that they have worked hard coming up with in the first place.

There are, however, two exceptions made in most copywrite laws in regards to derivitive works:
Sometimes copyright laws are confusing and hypocritical ><
Like how Wierd Al (loves him ^_^) can legally make millions from parodies of other peoples music, but Anne McCaffry can sue the pants of a teenager who made not a penny off a simple fan fiction :P
Parodies and satire are actually an exception in most copywrite laws. You can legally make fun of something all you want, and there's nothing the original copywrite holders can say about it. Regardless, Weird Al almost always contacts and gets permission from the original musicians before he publishes any of his parodies (I love his works too ^^)

The problem is that most of these webcomics, while humourous, I don't think would count as parodies.

From the Winston Canadian Dictionary for Schools:

Parody -- n. 1. a humourous imitation of a serious writing; 2, a burlesque of a musical composition; 3, hence, a burlesque imitation of anything

A parody *must* therefore be humourous by definition. Many webcomics, however, like Daily Quests, while having humourous elements, are not always strictly making fun of WoW. Some, like World of Warcraft, Eh?, are actually dramas, not too much different in tone than Blizzard's official lore.

Satire -- n. a poem, essay , story, etc. exposing and ridiculing evil or folly; 2, biting sarcasm or ridicule.

Satire, although usually lumped in with parody in everyday language, is actually something rather different. Satire exposes something that's wrong with reality, or with a given work, with the idea of such exposure leading to change. One example we studied extensively in my rhetorical theory classes at university was Jonathan Swift's 18th century essay, "A Modest Proposal", which suggested a rather extreme way in which the British could deal with Irish poverty. Since we can all pretty much agree that World of Warcraft is not evil, no satirical exposure is needed.

More on copywrite law: http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

Fan artists are, legally speaking, at the mercy of the original creators as to whether or not they can feature their derivitive works online, or anywhere. In order to protect themselves, I feel that fan artists of all mediums, visual artists included, must take the responsibility to not do anything to piss off copywrite holders, in order to protect their own art. WoW webcomics that feature stores or other blantently capitalistic features should therefore remove them as soon as possible, if they don't want Blizzard's legal department having a change of heart about what they tolerate.

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Re: WoW webcomics, and the legality of their stores.

Unread post by cowmuflage »

oh i should tell you guys a thing i learned at school.
Its pretty important well ok this works here and may not work were you are But signing/watermarking your work does not stand well in court manly cos they can be easly faked with photoshop etc the thing you do to prove your art is truly yours is but photocopying it and sending it to yourself in the mail aand not opening it. This will show proof that you did truely make it your self as the mail with have sending times etc.

Oh and if you make a drawing/story at your work, the stuido can use it with out asking you thats useally in your contract! so Don't doodle off at work lol

just trying my bit to be helpfull!
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Re: WoW webcomics, and the legality of their stores.

Unread post by Bulletdance »

The problem I'm having is the unfairness of visual artists getting to skirt around copywrite laws with no real consequences, while language artists, i.e. writers, have no such option.
Actually there are probably plenty of fiction writers out there ripping off WoW right now. (not to mention that awful avatar movie)There are also programming guides, gold guides, hell even websites that post fan fics and accept donations could fall into certain categories. Its a matter of perspective really. I think morally if people offer their skills for things people want its not that bad. A single char portrait or something like that. But if they started mass producing them like those sites and big red kitty that sell t-shirts and stuff like that its greedy. I mean BigRed kitty has designers design that stuff and then sells them. But ALL things related to blizzard, fanfic, commission pieces, all kinds of things are subject to the law. One letter form blizz would be all it would take to stop it all so in the end the only ones you can get mad at for allowing it to happen is Blizz. They probably like it to some extent.

I use that devariant art site to post my fan pics,but I never offer prints or things like that so please don't lump us all into one category either.
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Re: WoW webcomics, and the legality of their stores.

Unread post by Renle »

I wonder if it doesn't have to do with lawsuits that have happened in the past. I once heard of of a fan fiction writer that tried to sue the author of their fan work when the author made a sequel to their own story with elements inside similar to what the fan artist had written.
When it comes to fan fiction and stories, people do tend to become very uptight either way I've noticed.
It seems with art, so long as your work isn't a blatant exact reproduction it seems to slip under the radar.

Though in part I wonder if it isn't to do with the uses said fan works would be in once sold.
A private commission of a piece of fan art goes into someones home and is enjoyed only by the commissioner most of the time.
However, if a fan fiction writer were to sell their story to a magazine, it gets viewed by hundreds of people, and maybe even makes more money down the line in part to subscription sales.

Unless a fan fiction writer were to get paid by private commission to write a story for someone who was not going to publish the work but keep it to themselves, there does seem to be a bit of a difference.
And I'm sure many people can do things like this, as there would really not be many ways for a writer to prove a fan fictionist is making money from their works as there is no public showing of the work.

I'm personally just playing devil's advocate here, as I've never been commissioned for so much as a thumbs up lol.
However, I'm sure if Blizzard really has an issue with these web comics making money, they could easy get them shut down. They probably have their own personal army of lawyers :P

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Re: WoW webcomics, and the legality of their stores.

Unread post by Renle »

...and big red kitty that sell t-shirts...
They probably like it to some extent.
they made homage to BRK by making him a gun in game. I think it's safe to say they like him/don't care he's selling merchandise :P

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Re: WoW webcomics, and the legality of their stores.

Unread post by Mr. Perfect »

They're probably alright because the comics aren't directly created by Blizzard. If people where simply selling Blizzard's wallpaper section on T-Shirts they'd get shut down pretty fast, as those images are literally Blizzard's work. On the other hand, these comic writers are sitting down with a blank sheet of paper and drawing a likeness of Blizz's work. That has to fall under some sort of fair use clause.
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Re: WoW webcomics, and the legality of their stores.

Unread post by Garithos »

I was asking a friend about this exact topic and he linked me to this thread. I made an account so I could join in.

I am planning on making a Warcraft webcomic myself. After investigating a little bit I found the same thing which is that many Warcraft webcomics sell merchandise and have ads. In short, they make profits from Warcraft material which they did not originally create. I would have thought this would be illegal and if so that Blizzard would go after them legally. If you make a Thrall doll with your own two hands then it is still copyright infringement I thought. Or something. I am not certain on the legal language to be used. Trademarks?

Anyway, I myself have no intention of say making a Warcraft doll and selling it, or shirts or printed comics or anything of the sort, but I was wondering about accepting donations (on a website that hosts a Warcraft comic) and about ad revenue for the same site. I have yet to create these things and I suspect the only views I will get will be from my mom and one friend (maybe) but I want to know the legality of it all before I do anything.

To be clear, I do not plan on making something Warcraft inspired. It will be set on Azeroth with many of the original Warcraft characters and at present I intend to start the story at essentially the same spot where vanilla wow starts.

I have been thinking to contact Blizzard directly, but I suspect they will take some time to answer me and wanted to see if I could find out this information a bit faster. Can anyone clarify for me, please?

Cheers.

Edit: I just realized I necro'd an old thread... sorry about that. I'd still really appreciate an answer though.
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