Cataclysm Class Preview: Hunter

[punctuation]

So for those of you complaining that the freeing up of exotic pets to all specs will somehow decimate the BM identity, perhaps you should redirect your argumentative efforts to obtaining some sort of BM-only shot or spell that will *actually* differentiate the BM playstyle from SV or MM.

Oh, it's very different from surv or marks.

What BM needs is something to make it seem different than a specless hunter.

Yes, I agree, but exotic pets aren't that something. They're purely cosmetic. When I had a mage back in vanilla WoW, I had him decked out in full Devout (priest dungeon gear) because I liked the way it looked. He was still a mage, though. He still played like a mage, still used a mage rotation, still conjured water for everyone. But he looked like a priest. I realize this an extreme example, but the point's the same: BM needs something that makes the class play differently and uniquely, not something that makes them look different.

(I still want the demolock shot for BM. Or the ability to dual-wield pets.)

[Rhyela]

Exotics, as of right now, aren't "purely cosmetic", at least not in my opinion. Not when my devilsaur does at least twice the amount of damage as any other hunter's wolf or cat or what-have-you. It's not cosmetic when it does 39% of my total damage (just last time I looked, I don't spend my time gawking at Recount). Right now, exotics and the damage they bring to the Beast Mastery spec is all that we BM hunters have. So until Blizz changes it, and I don't mean by giving us a different incarnation of Steady Shot (which I still appreciate, lol), I really prefer that exotics stay a Beast Mastery staple.

However, like you said, if they did something really impressive like give us a REAL shot (or maybe a couple? ), I would be happy with that. And OMG, if they allowed us to use two pets...I think I'd pee myself.

But no, as it stands, and from the previews I've seen thus far, I do not believe that BM is in a place right now that I'd be happy if they took away our exotic tames. Why? Because they haven't really given us anything else. I'd feel like they were taking more than they were giving and that's a pretty crappy trade-off if you ask me.

So, I understand and see what you're trying to say but right now.....well, I guess we'll just have to see what the re-worked talent trees bring to the table.

(And even if we do get some special, unique, BM-only shot somewhere down the road, I'll probably still cringe if/when Spirit Beasts become the new wolf and EVERYONE has one. Takes away the special feeling, at least in my opinion)

[Kalliope]

I never said exotics were that something. They aren't, especially because there's plenty of amazing-looking non-exotic pets.

What sort of shot can we come up with for BM? Let's brainstorm. What sort of functionality would it have? How would it work with cobra shot?

[punctuation]

Exotics, as of right now, aren't "purely cosmetic", at least not in my opinion. Not when my devilsaur does at least twice the amount of damage as any other hunter's wolf or cat or what-have-you. It's not cosmetic when it does 39% of my total damage (just last time I looked, I don't spend my time gawking at Recount).

Now, have you tried using a wolf and compared the damage from your wolf and your devilsaur? I mean, I have a theory that your pet -- any pet, not just an exotic -- will do more dps than another (non-BM) hunter's pet. And I have a theory that any of your pets, exotic or not, would do quite a hefty chunk of your own dps as BM. I mean, isn't that the point? (I also wonder if you'll see more overall dps with a wolf, even as BM.)

Also, I'd never suggest taking away exotics RIGHT NOW... this is strictly speaking in Cata.

[Ryai]

Also, I'd never suggest taking away exotics RIGHT NOW... this is strictly speaking in Wrath.

Sorry but no. I don't agree with this UNLESS there are MORE spirit beasts added- that exotics that are required for achivements are taken out of the requiremnts. That they no longer drop loot. That when you are taming said rarespawn that it becomes unattackable.

Until this happens- I'm not gonna agree anymore that exotics should be tameable by all classes of hunters.

It's the same as demanding Chimera Shot or Explosive Shot/Black Arrow for non MM/SV hunters.

[punctuation]

Also, I'd never suggest taking away exotics RIGHT NOW... this is strictly speaking in Wrath.

Sorry but no. I don't agree with this UNLESS there are MORE spirit beasts added- that exotics that are required for achivements are taken out of the requiremnts. That they no longer drop loot. That when you are taming said rarespawn that it becomes unattackable.

Until this happens- I'm not gonna agree anymore that exotics should be tameable by all classes of hunters.

It's the same as demanding Chimera Shot or Explosive Shot/Black Arrow for non MM/SV hunters.

Well, first, my mistake. I meant "strictly speaking in Cataclysm," not Wrath.

I'm not entirely sure I'm following your argument for more spirit beasts, removal of achievements and loot, etc... exotic pets are NOT all rare spawns. In fact, most of them aren't.

And as far as your last point that equates asking for the liberation of exotic pets to the asking that chimera shot becomes a baseline hunter skill... seriously? I've just spent three or four posts explaining why exotic pets are not at all comparable to chimera shot or explosive shot. Saying exotic pets is the same as either shot is like saying apples and oranges are just the same as goats.

[Dragonpuff]

And as far as your last point that equates asking for the liberation of exotic pets to the asking that chimera shot becomes a baseline hunter skill... seriously? I've just spent three or four posts explaining why exotic pets are not at all comparable to chimera shot or explosive shot. Saying exotic pets is the same as either shot is like saying apples and oranges are just the same as goats.

Okay, okay, okay. Everyone, freeze!
/glances around, making sure everyone is perfectly still.
Ahem.

As of right now, Exotic pets are the equivialent of Chimera shot and Explosive shot. Not because of DPS, not because of pretty factor, not because of this pet is better then this pet, yadda yadda etc. It is because Exotics are the last thing BMs get. The only thing. (Plus the 4 more talents points, but eh. Whoopie?) The bigger, 'better' pet IS the mechanic of BM. As of this preview, Exotics are still the only things BMs get for themselves. They are the only thing dividing the tree from MM and Surv. So yes, they are comparable in that way.

From what you're saying, you don't seem to actually be all that impressed with the distinctions that exist between the trees.

...chimera shot and explosive shot are just shots. They have virtually no visible effect, and they are parts of a rotation. Granted, they're a large part, but they aren't used that often -- only in combat, and only once every few seconds. Your exotic pets, however, are massive, omnipresent, visual representations.

Just shots?
Back when I was still pure BM, I was drooling over those shots in BGs! Have you ever watched the poor victim on the receiving end of an Explosive shot? Heads up, they EXPLODE every tick! That is one great visible effect I see, very often in fact! It boils down to this. As BM, you get epic pet. As MM/Surv, you get epic shots. It's one or the other my friend.

Basically, it sounds like you want something nice to look at all the time. Alright, go BM then! If you want the burst damage, go Surv! If you want the high endgame damage, go MM! There are the choices you have, right now. And as of now, those choices don't seem to be changing much come Cata.

[Golden]

Amen to that, Dragonpuff. *worship* Couldn't have said it any better.

[Saturo]

I remember back when BM was pets, MM was pure ranged and SV was more of a melee spec.

[Dragonpuff]

Ahh, the good ol' days. I remember back when I was determined to go out and learn every single pet skill and rank there was.

^-^

[Kalliope]

Marks has killer burst too, lol; it's not just an endgame spec.

This is one of the big reasons we're getting moved to focus. Hunters aren't as foolproof as stunlocking rogues, but omg, when you're a clothie with a hunter opening up on you HARD and there's nowhere for you to go, you end up swearing about hunter burst just as much. Our mortal strike can't be dispelled. We have access to physical AND magic attacks, so we can hit anything that's not iceblocked or bubbled. (Or deterrencing, technically.)

As things stand now, marks has a huge arsenal of shots to choose from. Readiness gives us the most potential short-term burst of all the specs. Surv leans more toward magical damage and does still have the huge perk of carrying replenishment, in addition to having a less mana intensive spec than marks. BM is cheap because it has the fewest shots and cooldowns, plus it has the most powerful pets. This doesn't show up as well in raids, since there are so many fights that require heavy movement, but in battlegrounds, bigredangry pets hurt like hell.

It would be nice if BW could be lengthened again or otherwise tweaked to return to being the BM staple. The sight of a huge red pet and its hunter is the strongest BM iconography for me. THAT is BM's equivalent of having a unique shot, but because it was so overpowered in arena (due to ridiculous amounts of burst), it got nerfed into the ground.

[Ryai]

I'm not entirely sure I'm following your argument for more spirit beasts, removal of achievements and loot, etc... exotic pets are NOT all rare spawns. In fact, most of them aren't.

No but the shiniest ones and rarest ones are- Nuramoc, Krush, the Spirit Beasts. Others are hard to find/tame [core hounds anyone? Especially pre lv 80 unless you have help/haste] etc etc.

But you saying removing exotics means that anyone and everyone, not just people who are BM or have a BM side specc but min-maxers could get pretty shiny formerly BM only pets. And if you meant- No more exotics made period, isn't that also raining on BM's parade? That we get no thrilling exotics to hunt- I mean, spend a week sitting on our butts camping for? I'm sorry but that also doesn't appeal to me. As much as I hate rarespawn exotics or hate how useless some are now, I remember the glorydays of Rhinobowling, and it may be returning now. May. Maybe.

Not everyone rolled a hunter for leet DPS- I originally rolled the class because I wanted pets. It's why I deleted my Warrior and rerolled her as Hunter.

I wanted pets.

And anyways my argument was, as I misunderstood you, was if exotics are removed as BM only tames, then not only do we have to put up with frustrated campers, achivement wh*res and other BM hunters who may or may not be other hunter friendly- but MM and SV going for our tames too.

And as far as your last point that equates asking for the liberation of exotic pets to the asking that chimera shot becomes a baseline hunter skill... seriously?

Now you misunderstood me.

Until this happens- I'm not gonna agree anymore that exotics should be tameable by all classes of hunters.

It's the same as demanding Chimera Shot or Explosive Shot/Black Arrow for non MM/SV hunters.

I've just spent three or four posts explaining why exotic pets are not at all comparable to chimera shot or explosive shot. Saying exotic pets is the same as either shot is like saying apples and oranges are just the same as goats.

Exotics are the same as the shots in the way that THEY ARE TREE EXCLUSIVES.

IE: It's like an SV hunter QQing about a shiny BM only pet- but wanting to keep his explosive shots n black arrow attack. Cause it has happened a few times.

[Kalliope]

Agreed with the rest, but this is just off:

No but the shiniest ones and rarest ones are- Nuramoc, Krush, the Spirit Beasts. Others are hard to find/tame [core hounds anyone? Especially pre lv 80 unless you have help/haste] etc etc.

Going through every exotic pet family....

Chimeras: Numaroc is the only chimera rare spawn, and he's usually up these days, since Netherstrom is a ghost town.
Corehounds: The moment you can tame exotics, you can tame the Kurken. It's a bit of a trek for horde, but certainly soloable. Reds are harder, but greens are readily available.
Devilsaurs: Unless you want Krush or Mosh, devilsaurs are easy tames despite their fears because they are trappable.
Rhinos: Only one of them is a rare elite - Icehorn - and he's not tameable. (Pssst. Mania. He's not on Petopia. I had to look him up on Wowhead.)
Silithids: These little buggers are all over the place. The rare spawns do not have unique color skins.
Spirit Beasts: The only exception, since all of them are rare spawns and heavily camped. For now. Once Cataclysm hits, only Loque will remain heavily sought by achievement seekers. The rest of them, as late additions, are off the hook. When Northrend empties out, I expect that hunters will only have to compete with each other and the occasional leveling toon.
Worms: The only hard color to obtain is the orange/gold one, as it's only available as a rare spawn....but there are TWO rare spawns with this skin. While this doesn't make them any less rare, the fact that you get two somewhat abandoned zones to choose from helps your odds greatly.

Yes, the shiniest of Northrend are the most sought after at the moment. But once players head back to Azeroth, camping for them will become much, MUCH easier. I do not see their current availability as a permanent problem.

[FuzzyDolly]

I'm a BM hunter, and I don't want any BM specific shot. If I wanted special shots, I'd run MM. What I would like is more pet damage. If I'm correct, Blizz doesn't want us relying on our pets as our major source of damage. Why not? To me, BM pets should be 50 or 75% of the total damage. The whole reason we're BM is because of the pets. I feel that we, the hunter, should be our pet's back up dps. I would happily give up some of my damage to make our pets more of a focus. Do I think BM should have access to special pets no one else can tame? Absolutely. If for no other reason than to get our dps in line with other specs. And as for losing major dps when our pets die, that's simple... keep your pet alive! Problem solved.

[Saturo]

But the problem is AoE. Your pet doesn't have to run from it, which would make hunters far too easy to play.

[Ryai]

Yes, the shiniest of Northrend are the most sought after at the moment. But once players head back to Azeroth, camping for them will become much, MUCH easier. I do not see their current availability as a permanent problem.

I am now a bit uncertain if Northrend will become as dead as outland as we aren't getting a 'whole new continent' and level caps are only going as high as 85.

It's also why i said the shiniest about the certain species- I want a Devilsaur on Rosalyn, but none other than Krush will do. I've tamed and abandoned more devilsaurs than I can count on one hand.

And it's just remembering how there's the shiny pets- how hard they are to get, no where in the changes so far are there any to the Tame Beast mechanic.

I was lucky enough to never receive grief when taming, but as wel all know not every hunter has.- even for NORMAL pets.

[Ghanur]

This makes engineering a bad joke - besides the flying mount theres nothing usefull or fun left.

i gotta beleive they are aware of this and will give something to the profession to make it interesting or they might as well just remove it entirely.

Really? Read some of the other posts after the one you replied to.

You're talking about hard-core-raiding, we are talking about the every-day-use and fun for casuals -- the latter will be removed completely from engineering.

[Sphax]

Well maybe give BM hunters a skill to use with their pet.

Not a shot just like intimidate (sorry if spelled wrong) but instead of a stun it would do dmg equal to or less (cause their pet already do lots of dmg) the chilmera shot from mm and explosive shot from survivival.

[Dweezill]

Even if Northrend does clear out during the Cata launch, that would make Northrend exotics easier to tame. But, don;t forget that everybody will be heading back to Azeroth to level to 85..... which means the areas where the orange/gold worms will be highly played again (I am ssuming). So, it looks likeit will be a "give-and-take" type thing. Some areas will be less played, making the exotic rare spawns in those areas a lil easierto locate. but, other areas are gonna become a lot more populated (maybe even changed or done away with), making the rare spawns in those areas much harder to get. You may wanna get your Azeroth rare spawns first. in the long run, they could be the hardest to find.

[Golden]

Even if Northrend does clear out during the Cata launch, that would make Northrend exotics easier to tame. But, don;t forget that everybody will be heading back to Azeroth to level to 85..... which means the areas where the orange/gold worms will be highly played again (I am ssuming). So, it looks likeit will be a "give-and-take" type thing. Some areas will be less played, making the exotic rare spawns in those areas a lil easierto locate. but, other areas are gonna become a lot more populated (maybe even changed or done away with), making the rare spawns in those areas much harder to get. You may wanna get your Azeroth rare spawns first. in the long run, they could be the hardest to find.

All that assuming that some Azeroth rares aren't deleted, former unique skins made way more common etc. Gotta remember that Azeroth is going to take a beating, so some skins may not be where we're used to finding them afterwards. Who knows, Humar may "die" and leave a pack of black lions wandering around somewhere, Grubthor and Oozeworm may migrate to Desolace and Feralas, the armored boars could disappear completely.

Also I don't think that any of the lower level areas will get much more traffic than they have now, it's probably the 80-85 zones that are going to be the busiest places while Darkshore will remain the quiet place it is today.