Idea: Making Pet Taming Challenges Momentous!

[Acherontia]

And its seriously the same thing as rogues. you cant tell what spec they are until they hit you, which is unfair. so why cant we have same with pets? the surprise is nice and you cant change its spec in a BG so first encounter a learning experience. after that they know what to avoid or not. heres how i would tell
hunter has call of the wild, his pet is ferocity, or if you see and of the clear buffs on said pet
pet is non stop dashing, most likely cunning as with 1/2 points BM in the improved dash they have non stop dash.
and ohh pet doesnt dash, no buffs and is charging its a tenacity.

ATLEAST pets' specs you can see at a range, and it adds more surprise to the whole mix

You can tell what spec a rogue is by looking at his partner's buffs, actually. If you come into arena and there's a warrior standing there alone, you check his buffs. He has Trueshot Aura? There's an MM stealthed. MotW? Druid. No LotP? It's resto. HaT? He has a sub rogue with him. Nothing? POTENTIALLY an invis'd mage, if they didn't buff the warr with Brilliance; possibly a non-sub rogue.

I'm not talking about judging once you're in combat, I'm talking about before the fight. Go into an arena, and see if they jump right into it or if both teams wait a moment behind pillars and judge the situation. They're checking the enemy specs (more likely through Gladius, but also manually) and planning the fight.

Saying balancing around PvP is "weak" is a matter of opinion. Half this game is PvE, half is PvP, and which you prefer is a matter of just that--preference--and the game is meant to be balanced around both. I personally think it's actually a large potential issue to take into consideration.

(P.S., regarding rhinos, yes I know they're extremely dangerous IRL. But they're also not something I'd consider a predator, just something big & heavy to be avoided, so I think they'd feel out of place as Ferocity.)

[Worba]

To me, tenacity just means "choosing to fight defensively", ferocity means "choosing to fight offensively" and cunning means "choosing to fight wisely", e.g. there's nothing innately predator/prey/carnivore/herbivore-ish about it.

[Acherontia]

That's probably a better description, yeah--rhinos to me don't seem like something that actively seeks out something to beat up, or eat, whatever, phrase it that way Actually though, I can't offhand think of any herbivore I'd call ferocious... The Moth doesn't really seem to fit as Ferocity

[Worba]

Ever seen a pissed off zebra?

(or the chimp that freaked out and chewed off that woman's face...)

[Cerele]

That's probably a better description, yeah--rhinos to me don't seem like something that actively seeks out something to beat up, or eat, whatever, phrase it that way Actually though, I can't offhand think of any herbivore I'd call ferocious... The Moth doesn't really seem to fit as Ferocity

im not just talking about combat, i was refering to battle grounds, arena kinda same.
rhinos attacking with a horn seems pretty agressive they charge anything that smells odd, the turtle only attacks when its attacked... theres differences in combat there rhinos should be ferocity. short temper and near sited they charge like nuts.

i do agree with you about the moths.... they should be cunning if anything.

[Sasrei]

I really dont see much arguement for Rhinos not being a ferocity.. id say more cunning cause a rhino and carrion feeder.. kinda freaks me out would probably have to reword things to.. but a Moth as tenacity.. thats pretty hilarious.. fear the wasp tank of doom! I like the idea of specific types only getting certain trees.

Though the pvp debate I dont get cause.. everytime I pvp they ignore my pet and go for me My pet can be half way across the map, by time he gets back to save me.. no intervene or dash will protect from a rogues friggen sap. In arena I could see it since its only the most 5 vs 5, but Bgs theres so much love to go around my pet is usually the last thing on their minds.

[Nubhorns]

i do agree with you about the moths.... they should be cunning if anything.

Leave my killer moth alone! :P I love his rabid, bloodthirsty little face just as he is and I'd be heartbroken if he changed.

People are pulling RL animals into this to justify some of the specs, and I have to wonder if we've considered the differences between, say, Earth rhinos, which are known for poor eyesight and a temper, and Azerothian rhinos, which, as far as we can tell, are only aggressive if they are bulls and/or provoked. Going by these observations you can argue that the two are completely different and it's quite possible that Azerothian rhinos are more mellow than their Earth counterparts and wouldn't really fit the Ferocity tree. Ditto with moths, wolves, etc. etc. An Azeroth horse may be virtually identical to an Earth horse, but that doesn't mean everything is.

Silly ramblings aside, however, I don't really like this idea for every reason Acherontia mentioned as well as the burden of extra coding to sort through. That and, well, frankly, I kind of like the families and trees the way they are. All nice and neat and(mostly) predictable.

[Worba]

Speaking of carrion feeder, since they made the change to pet happiness that talent is practically vestigial.

[Cerele]

i do agree with you about the moths.... they should be cunning if anything.

Leave my killer moth alone! I love his rabid, bloodthirsty little face just as he is and I'd be heartbroken if he changed.

People are pulling RL animals into this to justify some of the specs, and I have to wonder if we've considered the differences between, say, Earth rhinos, which are known for poor eyesight and a temper, and Azerothian rhinos, which, as far as we can tell, are only aggressive if they are bulls and/or provoked. Going by these observations you can argue that the two are completely different and it's quite possible that Azerothian rhinos are more mellow than their Earth counterparts and wouldn't really fit the Ferocity tree. Ditto with moths, wolves, etc. etc. An Azeroth horse may be virtually identical to an Earth horse, but that doesn't mean everything is.

Silly ramblings aside, however, I don't really like this idea for every reason Acherontia mentioned as well as the burden of extra coding to sort through. That and, well, frankly, I kind of like the families and trees the way they are. All nice and neat and(mostly) predictable.

considering most rhinos in game are agressive.... yea they same in game, and moths.... please blizz why switch them and nether rays? lol

[Sasrei]

Moths are aggressive in game yes.. but telling Butterfree to go and tank seems.. a little odd to me

[Worba]

Moths are aggressive in game yes.. but telling Butterfree to go and tank seems.. a little odd to me

That's why I recommended using body types (heavy / med / light) to limit what pets could select which trees.

[Acherontia]

Ever seen a pissed off zebra?

(or the chimp that freaked out and chewed off that woman's face...)

WHY DID YOU SAY THIS

I just finished getting that out of my head after seeing it on some video a week ago! That was some SCARY shiz right there.

[Worba]

Yah. Made me seriously re-evaluate the whole "oh look a cute little chimp" thing...

But my point was that many herbivores can still be plenty ferocious when feeling threatened.

[SgtMakkie]

Lol sigh .… why not just be happy with what you've got?? The amount of effort already given to hunters is way beyond that of any other class. Points you to the 'Thank Noah Thread' ( would link it, but on my phone & cba ). Don't get me wrong, discuss away, just be prepared to justify what seems anwfully greedy argument.

Also, buffs in PvP. With the changes to buffs in cata, a number are overwritten by some classes. Example, frost DK's icy buff = trueshot aura, and will be visible instead of it.

[Slivers]

Lol sigh .… why not just be happy with what you've got?? The amount of effort already given to hunters is way beyond that of any other class. Points you to the 'Thank Noah Thread' ( would link it, but on my phone & cba ). Don't get me wrong, discuss away, just be prepared to justify what seems anwfully greedy argument.

Also, buffs in PvP. With the changes to buffs in cata, a number are overwritten by some classes. Example, frost DK's icy buff = trueshot aura, and will be visible instead of it.

Sorry, but I, personally, disagree. Although I do love the attention and new idea given to the Hunter, it is completely useless and meaningless to me and every hunter I know in my guild and am close to in the game. I am not saying it is meaningless to you but it is to me as a raiding-focused hunter who still is BM spec'd and tries hard to tame a variety of pets for raiding.

Why would I be happy with "What I got" when it is nothing for me?

This thread is about how to make it meaningful to me and a large group of raiding hunters without removing or diminishing the importance to other hunters who are happy and satisfied with the idea.

[SgtMakkie]

Just because x pet doesn't have y ability won't make or break a raid, especially because you can bring y buff with a different pet and it'll do just as much damage (remember they've all been normalised). I'd go so far as to say if the current system isn't anything for you then there are deeper issue's this won't fix.

Regardless of it being meaningless to you as a raiding hunter, for which I can understand being one myself, it should not encourage asking for more that is relevant. Remember the whole buff pet idea was directly aimed at us, giving us raiders the ability to directly help and influence how raids are built. This is a huge step forward and helps hunters get an important spot in some raids (where a specific buff might be missing - common one, Demo shout, if no warrior present).

I'm sorry, maybe I'm prejudiced, but this just comes over as being greedy when we already have so much. While RL traits are obviously easy to find back in pets, that doesn't mean a ferocious snapping turtle should suddenly become a tenacious cunning pet?

Appreciate the toys you have, rather than constantly ask for more.

[Acherontia]

...Isn't the DK aura haste, and Trueshot AP? O.o

And regarding chimps--they're very much not herbivores. They can and will eat other monkeys and whatever they can get their crazy chimp hands on. (Although to be fair, as freaking scary as that one chimp was, supposedly he'd just been dosed with a medication that sent him into a blind rage. May not have been the reason but it makes me feel a LITTLE better >.>)

[Worba]

...Isn't the DK aura haste, and Trueshot AP? O.o

And regarding chimps--they're very much not herbivores. They can and will eat other monkeys and whatever they can get their crazy chimp hands on. (Although to be fair, as freaking scary as that one chimp was, supposedly he'd just been dosed with a medication that sent him into a blind rage. May not have been the reason but it makes me feel a LITTLE better >.>)

Fine, omnivores who are primarily herbivorous then (e.g. more fruit / less small animals owing to the fact that the fruit doesn't run away)...

But the argument stands - see hippopotamus, rhino, gorilla et al

http://listverse.com/2010/01/10/top-10- ... -to-avoid/

Herbivores can be extremely ferocious.

[Worba]

Just because x pet doesn't have y ability won't make or break a raid, especially because you can bring y buff with a different pet and it'll do just as much damage (remember they've all been normalised). I'd go so far as to say if the current system isn't anything for you then there are deeper issue's this won't fix.

Regardless of it being meaningless to you as a raiding hunter, for which I can understand being one myself, it should not encourage asking for more that is relevant. Remember the whole buff pet idea was directly aimed at us, giving us raiders the ability to directly help and influence how raids are built. This is a huge step forward and helps hunters get an important spot in some raids (where a specific buff might be missing - common one, Demo shout, if no warrior present).

I'm sorry, maybe I'm prejudiced, but this just comes over as being greedy when we already have so much. While RL traits are obviously easy to find back in pets, that doesn't mean a ferocious snapping turtle should suddenly become a tenacious cunning pet?

Appreciate the toys you have, rather than constantly ask for more.

Sorry, not with you here. I don't think any class could ever reach a point where it would be impossible to think of any improvements; if you want to say this should be a lower priority item, fine. It would make hunter pets cooler (e.g. take something cool and make it cooler still), but it's certainly not a game breaker - I'd rather see the "pet summons with 5% HP and dies if it gets hit before HP is auto-adjusted to 100%" bug fixed before they look at something like this, but that's no reason to dismiss what is in my view an interesting suggestion.

[Slivers]

Just because x pet doesn't have y ability won't make or break a raid, especially because you can bring y buff with a different pet and it'll do just as much damage (remember they've all been normalised).

Except the fact that a Cunning pet will do less damage than a Ferocity and the Tenacious pets are even worse. If you are spec'd BM, this is compounded. Thus the reason for the suggestion; I would love to have the opportunity and excitement of taming all these new pets and look forward to more in the future. For 6 of 10 I am not/can not.

And to be clear, I would just allow for the Tree Choice option on these specific pets, not all Tames. This would mitigate the need to re-evaluate andd re-balance all existing Pets Tree + Buffs; saving that for some future patch when more time is allowed to do so.

Appreciate the toys you have, rather than constantly ask for more.

Yes The Pet love is certainly appreciated in Cataclysm. Unfortunately, BM remains, and has been since WotLK, the red-headed, least damaging, step-child DPS Talent Tree for a Hunter. Sometimes a little and sometimes more behind MM and SV. Pet choices and enjoyment are the reasons I play BM regardless of that fact. Thankfully, I am in a guild who accepts that.

I am happy with what I paid and got out of Cataclysm for pets. However, I am still paying money each month. And, just as with anything I am spending dollars on, I expect something in return. Yes, I do expect new toys that give me renewed enjoyment. You may not, but I do. If there wasn't a monthly fee, I would not have the same expectations. There is and so I do

I have played the game since the original Friends and Family beta back in May of 2004. I have played a hunter since release in 2004. I was part of the original group taming rares and posting to the Hunter forums the first month their attack speeds. I am in the same raiding guild which was founded on launch day. I have seen and experienced every single hunter change. I do not have a single ALT I play nor a secondary Hunter. I have always and will always have BM as a primary spec; switching only when absolutely necessary for the guild.

And I have, and always will expect new toys for my money. I have, and always will offer up suggestions which I see as interesting, balanced, and help invigorate the class. I will not be satisfied with what is currently in game until a time comes I am no longer paying Blizzard to play; either by elimination of the monthly fee or quitting the game. All my suggestions, for the past seven years, are to help Blizzard continue to get the $15 from me in to the future

And, unfortunately, right now they are failing for me. And for the first time in all those years, another game is calling my name; the call of the Republic is strong and needed to battle against the return of the Sith empire.

WOW .... that was a little pedestal- ish and climactic?!?!?! I wish I could attach some cool crescendo sound file to this post

Regardless, it is discussions like these with interesting people which make this Forum and WOW more enjoyable; I highly doubt Rogues get to have this much fun in their chats