BM beta spec discussion...

[Kalliope]

In the Twitter chat, Blizzard said they weren't happy with ANY of the classes yet, so there's clearly still work to be done.

[Ryai]

In the Twitter chat, Blizzard said they weren't happy with ANY of the classes yet, so there's clearly still work to be done.

Oh it gets worse tho.

Q. How are you trying to separate the play styles of the hunter specializations? What makes Cobra Shot feel different from Steady Shot?
A. Cobra Shot is ideal for Beast Mastery and Survival hunters because they don’t really have any other way of keeping Serpent Sting up (Cobra Shot extends Serpent Sting’s duration), and also for Survival because it is “Elemental” damage. It's also useful in PvP or in some other niche situations, say, when a creature is immune to physical damage. Now you have a solution.

Yep. Cobra aint BM's shot no more. Well it never was but, that kinda seals the deal.

If 'Kill Command' becomes our shot, oh goody. Another way BM is gimped if pet dies.

And there's no more IMP REZ PET.

>_<

[Palladiamorsdeus]

And actually, MM has an improvement for Kill Command as well, not to mention the amount of damage that KC will theoretically be able to do at the moment. Although with focus regeneration being what it is right now......

[cowmuflage]

What so is the hole "MM is for pvp" thing true

[Kalliope]

What so is the hole "MM is for pvp" thing true

Nah.

We'll see if the gear requirements to effectively go marks are as steep in Cata, though.

[cowmuflage]

Good i like my MM spec and i don't like pvp XD

[Saturo]

Good i like my MM spec and i don't like pvp XD

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Ryai]

Good i like my MM spec and i don't like pvp XD

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I'm opposite. I can't stand PVPing as BM- I can tolerate it now as MM and SV- granted that'll probably change come focus -and- shot -and- tree change.

[Slickrock]

In the Twitter chat, Blizzard said they weren't happy with ANY of the classes yet, so there's clearly still work to be done.

Oh it gets worse tho.

Q. How are you trying to separate the play styles of the hunter specializations? What makes Cobra Shot feel different from Steady Shot?
A. Cobra Shot is ideal for Beast Mastery and Survival hunters because they don’t really have any other way of keeping Serpent Sting up (Cobra Shot extends Serpent Sting’s duration), and also for Survival because it is “Elemental” damage. It's also useful in PvP or in some other niche situations, say, when a creature is immune to physical damage. Now you have a solution.

Yep. Cobra aint BM's shot no more. Well it never was but, that kinda seals the deal.

If 'Kill Command' becomes our shot, oh goody. Another way BM is gimped if pet dies.

And there's no more IMP REZ PET.

>_<

Giving SV Cobra really makes no difference to BM.

The effectiveness of BM still will be based on how good KC is, and what pet survivability is like.

My biggest concern is on fights like Ahune, where your pet goes down no matter what, unless it's by your side, and it's impossible to effectively target your pet on the adds.

It might also severely handicap us on fights with airborne bosses, where the pet can't KC, unless the hit boxes are the size of some ICC ones or bigger.

That being said, it's still early.. they can make a lot of changes before Cata ships, and even after.

[Ryai]

Giving SV Cobra really makes no difference to BM.

Actually it does. Originally it was going to be our shot. Originally we were going to have buffs. Then it was revealed it was a nature version of steady shot. And there are mobs immune to nature damage so yeah. It's not any loss for any dps like an SV would suffer for having to use Arcane over Explosive because of fire immune mobs.

The effectiveness of BM still will be based on how good KC is, and what pet survivability is like.

KC being our shot is NOT helping; and as Palla said, MM is getting a buff for KC, meaning it's NOT a BM shot.

My biggest concern is on fights like Ahune, where your pet goes down no matter what, unless it's by your side, and it's impossible to effectively target your pet on the adds.

for Ahune it doesn't really matter, I finally respecced Yas as MM and did two fights without a pet just fine. No one complained. Then when everyone was focusing on Ahune over trash, I chose to dps down trash and allow my pet to come off from being passive. It's only the active phase that Ahune is dangerous. Besides- a live pet is better than a dead one. I saw hunters regularly sending their pet on Ahune, thinking Coal would out heal the damage [lol as if I'd bother attempting that] or not really caring either way.

Ahune is an example of how BM can be gimped HEAVILY if we are forced to have Kill Command as our 'shot' even when it's not.

It might also severely handicap us on fights with airborne bosses, where the pet can't KC, unless the hit boxes are the size of some ICC ones or bigger.

I'm pretty sure before the Ony change, my Hydralisk [ghost hydra] was able to strike Ony at times, while she was flying. There are also pets that have long ranged attacks. And there are also fights designed to gimp melee fighting for a time- it's not against the pet, it's just a part of the fight so it doesn't bother me much.

[Slickrock]

Giving SV Cobra really makes no difference to BM.

Actually it does. Originally it was going to be our shot. Originally we were going to have buffs. Then it was revealed it was a nature version of steady shot. And there are mobs immune to nature damage so yeah. It's not any loss for any dps like an SV would suffer for having to use Arcane over Explosive because of fire immune mobs.

I fail to see how SV using it effects us, unless they change it. It's just a nature-damage version of Steady to redo focus.

Now mobs being nature-damage resistant, that's an issue, but SV using it as well makes no difference.

[Saturo]

I think Ryai means that Blizz aren't giving BM a shot of their own. First it was going to be Cobra, then Kill Command. Now MM and SV have MORE talents to boost those two than BM, so... Yeah...

[Ryai]

I think Ryai means that Blizz aren't giving BM a shot of their own. First it was going to be Cobra, then Kill Command. Now MM and SV have MORE talents to boost those two than BM, so... Yeah...

Yes.

Then there's also the fact supposedly Cobra Shot was going to do more damage than steady for BM, and less for SV and MM. But this blows it out of the water if they want to have SV using it regularly too, to keep Serpent Sting up. Meaning, it's NOT BM only. KC isn't BM only.

Edit: And ofc Palla found proof that Cobra wasn't going to do this more damage for BM only anyways after I brought it up in another thread.

[Kalliope]

My biggest concern is on fights like Ahune, where your pet goes down no matter what, unless it's by your side, and it's impossible to effectively target your pet on the adds.

The only way a pet (or anyone else in melee, really) is going to die on Ahune is if they run near him. Take 'em off defensive if you can't keep them from going after the giant popsicle. Macro in a pet attack command for when you attack something. Problem solved!

[Slickrock]

My biggest concern is on fights like Ahune, where your pet goes down no matter what, unless it's by your side, and it's impossible to effectively target your pet on the adds.

The only way a pet (or anyone else in melee, really) is going to die on Ahune is if they run near him. Take 'em off defensive if you can't keep them from going after the giant popsicle. Macro in a pet attack command for when you attack something. Problem solved!

Yes, but, if the pet is by your side, and not dpsing the boss, it's kinda hard to use KC, which is supposed to be our signature attack.



Perhaps BM is dead.

[Slickrock]

I think Ryai means that Blizz aren't giving BM a shot of their own. First it was going to be Cobra, then Kill Command. Now MM and SV have MORE talents to boost those two than BM, so... Yeah...

Yes.

Then there's also the fact supposedly Cobra Shot was going to do more damage than steady for BM, and less for SV and MM. But this blows it out of the water if they want to have SV using it regularly too, to keep Serpent Sting up. Meaning, it's NOT BM only. KC isn't BM only.

Edit: And ofc Palla found proof that Cobra wasn't going to do this more damage for BM only anyways after I brought it up in another thread.

Ok, that's a vaild argument. We do have talents to boost KC damage, But, it still puts us in a corner.

I've posted some questions/concerns in the Cata forum, we'l see if I get a response.

[Kalliope]

My biggest concern is on fights like Ahune, where your pet goes down no matter what, unless it's by your side, and it's impossible to effectively target your pet on the adds.

The only way a pet (or anyone else in melee, really) is going to die on Ahune is if they run near him. Take 'em off defensive if you can't keep them from going after the giant popsicle. Macro in a pet attack command for when you attack something. Problem solved!

Yes, but, if the pet is by your side, and not dpsing the boss, it's kinda hard to use KC, which is supposed to be our signature attack.



Perhaps BM is dead.

What?

You're not supposed to have melee on Ahune until he submerges.

Period.

Players OR pets.

It's a swift death.

After he submerges, which is when you're SUPPOSED to dps him, pets and melee are free to hit him.

That's fight mechanics.

[FuzzyDolly]

I'm fine with BM not having a shot of their own... as long as we get an "oh shit" button to make up for when our pets die.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

I actually can't find any directly solid proof. I mean I have found the .27 modifier, and I'd assume that the sites would make a note of whether or not that was for one spec. But judging by Blizzards declaring that it will also be used by the other two specs, coupled with SV's mastery being an increase in elemental damage, I'd say it's doing the same damage across the board baseline, with SV getting a boost to make it more effective then the other two tree's. MM has of course always had Trueshot aura, so all things being equal, that'll put them at least 7% above the BM's Cobra shot as well, though I do believe MM will be better off using Steady for various effects.

[Kalliope]

I'm fine with BM not having a shot of their own... as long as we get an "oh shit" button to make up for when our pets die.

We probably won't see anything like that because if a pet is worth more to the hunter than it is when alive, that defeats the purpose of having a pet. If BM did get something, it'd be something defensive.