NERF BAT INC!

[Nimizar]

i dont PVP at all, the few times i have to for something i have no prob being bad it it lol. however, being all damage is not just about PVP but also end-game raiding as well. i dont know much but i do know that i need all the dps i can take to keep up with the other guys or im out of the raid.

Yep, that's basically what I said

PvE spec = DPS trumps survivability
PvP spec = survivability trumps DPS (up to a point - we still need to be able to do our job, which is to kill things. But we can't kill things if we're dead and, unlike mobs, other players don't obey a predictable threat table)

The first point is the reason Blizz are attempting to cull the number of DPS talents in the trees for Cataclysm so that no DPS tree includes more than 26-27 DPS talents. That way even PvE specs will be able to pick and choose between a few utility and survivability talents. How close you consider the current Cataclysm hunter trees to be to achieving this depends on whether you consider AoE talents to be DPS or utility (although, as I posted above, I expect at least one more pass over the hunter talents before 4.0.1 goes live)

[Nimizar]

i dont PVP at all, the few times i have to for something i have no prob being bad it it lol. however, being all damage is not just about PVP but also end-game raiding as well. i dont know much but i do know that i need all the dps i can take to keep up with the other guys or im out of the raid.

Oh, now I see - sorry, I misunderstood your original comment.

In PvE, since all pets were given 90% AoE damage reduction baseline, there are only a few "pet killer" abilities left (those would be AoE abilities like Sarth's Lava Wave that apply a single target DoT, so Avoidance doesn't kick in and the pet takes full damage - I think there are a couple of examples of this in ICC, I just don't remember them off the top of my head).

Aside from that, so long as you keep your pet on the tank's target and make sure Growl is switched off, it really shouldn't be taking any more damage than Mend Pet can handle in dungeons or raids.

For soloing, just have a survivability spec'ed Tenacity pet in the stable. That's perfectly usable for normal questing, even as MM or SV.

[Anyia]

*eats popcorn* Watching the drama unfold over BETA(aka not confirmed/set in stone stuff) things is amusing.

*pulls another couch over to watch the show too*

[Lisaara]

Do join me, Anyia! Your company is always welcomed. <3 Plenty of couch room!

[Feath3r]

*eats popcorn* Watching the drama unfold over BETA(aka not confirmed/set in stone stuff) things is amusing.

It's called a discussion, though a little heated, not "drama". Your inner troll is showing a bit, might want to work on that.

[Lisaara]

There's not much discussion when people are flailing, complaining(not giving helpful suggestions), and saying they'll quit their hunter. Not trolling if I'm just watching. No need to be rude. Seriously. I wasn't being mean or trollish. Only some are discussing. Others are running around like a chicken with their heads cut off.

[SpiritBinder]

There's not much discussion when people are flailing, complaining(not giving helpful suggestions), and saying they'll quit their hunter. Not trolling if I'm just watching. No need to be rude. Seriously. I wasn't being mean or trollish. Only some are discussing. Others are running around like a chicken with their heads cut off.

Off topic is off topic, just as I am for posting this, however saying..

*eats popcorn* Watching the drama unfold over BETA(aka not confirmed/set in stone stuff) things is amusing.

.. is clearly NOT adding to the discussion, in fact, these "flailing/complaining(not giving helpful suggestions)" people are actually adding more to the topic at hand, than your snide remarks. It is already a bit heated in this topic, which is fine as people are passionate about what they love, but please try not to create even more heat to stir it up even further.

That said... back on topic.

[cowmuflage]

I'd rather not see pets go away from MM as well i don't like people who think only BM hunters like there pets. Just cos i don't play BM does not mean i don't like pets i just can't stand BM thats all lol.

[Silvarain]

all ill say again is that NO ONE wants to take away pets, just give a viable option to those who would rather not have them out all the time

[cowmuflage]

That still would bring up more "lol your not BM so you don't like your pets" bull from certain BM hunters. Heck i get heaps allready i'd hate to see how much i get if that did happen!

Oh and there is a few people here who do act like BM hunters love their pets more. I don't like that.

[Kalliope]

all ill say again is that NO ONE wants to take away pets, just give a viable option to those who would rather not have them out all the time

I like the playstyle of marks.

I also like having a pet.

If I wanted to play a non-pet class, I would not have rolled a hunter.

If the most practical choice as marks were to be not having a pet, I'd be pretty unhappy.

Not having a pet in would NOT be a choice, if that was what I needed to do to be efficient.

This is why I do not like this idea.

There are plenty of other classes for players who would rather not be burdened by their pets.

This is the pet lovers' class. There's a reason we're the only ones who get to name ours.

[Anansi]

*eats popcorn* Watching the drama unfold over BETA(aka not confirmed/set in stone stuff) things is amusing.

If you actually took the time to read the discussion being had rather than rushing in to make an extremely cliched snide comment, you would have realised that the current debate is over a purely theoretical design idea that by no means is in the game in any form, live, beta or PTR.

[Lisaara]

I have read it and half of this topic wasn't discussion. It was pure drama and it's probably gonna get locked if it continues to get heated and the attacks on others don't cease.

I'm just as passionate about my hunter as the rest of you but I'm not gonna start getting heated over something not set in stone and start getting nasty then call it 'discussion'. I'd rather wait til it's set in stone and see how things work before throwing a fit(meaning after cata comes out and its not BETA testing still). Everyones getting all mad over nothing then biting each others throat if they dont agree with their views.

*goes elsewhere before she gets attacked again for no reason.*

[Vephriel]

Any topics concerning Cataclysm talent/spec/ability changes always get a little tense here with everyone having their own strong opinions. Heated discussion is fine, but if it turns too far from the subject matter then things get a bit more complicated. Taluwen, your comment just seemed unnecessarily provocative. Regardless of purpose, let's steer this thread back in the right direction now.

[Lisaara]

Any topics concerning Cataclysm talent/spec/ability changes always get a little tense here with everyone having their own strong opinions. Heated discussion is fine, but if it turns too far from the subject matter then things get a bit more complicated. Taluwen, your comment just seemed unnecessarily provocative. Regardless of purpose, let's steer this thread back in the right direction now.

I meant no harm. I was just watching before I got bitten for watching. But yes, back on topic.

I'm still gonna wait until it gets closer to cata release before holding a heavy opinion on any of this.

[Mkoll]

Yah if they keep this pattern up I will level up my hunter but for Raiding I think I will stick with my druid. The only hope I got is BM right now. Surv is even worse then Marks. There is so many PVP talents in there it's just stupid.

No. SV looks pretty good atm the damage is not what BM is, but it looks above and beyond better than MM. and yes there are some PVP talents but then again, there are PVP talents in all 3 trees.

[Tulune]

Even if we are a little (or a lot) messed up on release, they won't leave it at that. We will be tweaked and worked on.

I am a little nervous about all the changes, but I have faith that it will work out.

And while I do not oppose a choice to have a pet or not, Blizzard's stance on this is pretty clear (because of the added utility that pets are getting AND the further removal of melee abilities for the hunter), we are a pet class. PVP can be annoying at times to manage a pet and keep it alive, but since they have buffed (greatly, I might add) the survivability of pets in PVE situations, I don't see why having a pet would be an annoyance at all.

[Lisaara]

Even if we are a little (or a lot) messed up on release, they won't leave it at that. We will be tweaked and worked on.

I am a little nervous about all the changes, but I have faith that it will work out.

And while I do not oppose a choice to have a pet or not, Blizzard's stance on this is pretty clear (because of the added utility that pets are getting AND the further removal of melee abilities for the hunter), we are a pet class. PVP can be annoying at times to manage a pet and keep it alive, but since they have buffed (greatly, I might add) the survivability of pets in PVE situations, I don't see why having a pet would be an annoyance at all.

I agree with this whole heartedly. Blizzard made this quite clear. If we were meant to not have pets, we wouldn't be hunters.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

The whole "It's just beta!" thing is getting really old. Are you aware that for one, these patches are already on the PTR? And for two, that release is literally just about a month to a month and a half away? That's pretty close, and these numbers aren't anywhere near what they need to be. People have a right to be agitated, and to voice that agitation. Keep in mind, a lot of people on this site are BM, who spent an entire year after PTR wherein there were PLENTY of people who told that the nerfs were to much, being anywhere from 10 to 20% behind SV and MM. They, WE, have a right to be worried over numbers.

[Lisaara]

Palla, the patch 4.0 isnt Cata. It's pre-cata. Far as I'm aware, nothing for directly Cata is on PTR.