Intimidation. Wooo.

[The Insect Man]

Any mileage in campaigning for BM's freebie to be bestial wrath? surely that's more on a par with explosive shot.

[Doth777]

I agree, I found intimidation as the "spec-defining talent" to be very underwhelming. MM and Surv both have special shots that do good dmg and are used every fight, be it solo or groups/raids. Intimidation doesnt fit that bill, it isnt flashy/showy, it isnt very exciting for a new player, and it has a significant cooldown as opposed to the other 2 tree's specialties. I really think Bestial Wrath should've been the lvl 10 special, it defines the BM tree more than anything else, and you could have The Beast Within, Intimidation, and Exotic Pets be later key talents to pick up.

[Ellaran]

I agree, I found intimidation as the "spec-defining talent" to be very underwhelming.

Seriously. "Your pet stuns the target" is considered the defining characteristic of a Beast Master? I thought it was our BIG RED KITTY and BEASTS ONLY WE COULD TAME, either of which I'd rather have over freaking Intimidation.

Speaking of Beast Mastery, it looks like the talent is still the level-60 or so end talent. Least we won't have to wait longer for it, though being able to take the level-12 Exotics running aorund would be nice, and all of the new Spirit Beasts Blizz hinted at (unless all of them are above lvl 80 or something).

[tramani]

im raiding icc 10 hc now (not with my hunter , with my warrior ^^) and our hunter is BM , he never uses intimidation , and he never stops nagging how crappy it is =P

[Undra]

Intimidation is a pet leveling skill. click that and you'll never pull the mob off your friend. In that regard, it's the perfect thing to give a 10 because they will be using it until they cap.

[Kalliope]

For the record, I've used intimidation on some raid trash mobs for an interrupt when there's either no other option or people are being clowny. It's rare, but it happens.

[Aeladrine]

I use intimidation fairly often, when I accidently gain too much aggro. My albino devilsaur, for all his awesomeness, is bad at keeping aggro. I use it all the time soloing, but in dungeons? Never. I get begged by tanks who don't know what they're doing or who are even a little laggy to turn growl off, even though it often means mobs attacking the healers. So why would I use INTIMIDATION, the spell that GIVES YOUR PET AGGRO, in a dungeon? The other two talents are all-around good, they make sense being what that tree is all about. I agree that BW should have been the talent, not intimidation. BW gets used ALL THE TIME. It also increases damage output, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the other two talents somehow increase your damage or something.

This makes me feel like my favourite tree is about being a jerk and forcing your pet to take all the damage while you run away and hide. Yes, that's sort of what all hunters do, but this makes me feel more like I'm casting misdirect on my pet and then FD. Not nearly the same, but it's how I'm feeling at the moment.

[Ellaran]

Intimidation is a pet leveling skill. click that and you'll never pull the mob off your friend. In that regard, it's the perfect thing to give a 10 because they will be using it until they cap.

It's neither a core mechanic of the tree nor a defining characteristic of the tree. All of the other classes, and even our other two trees, get a skill that's the meat of what playing as that spec is all about. Beast Masters aren't known for making a mob dizzy and grumpier at our pet, we're known for HUGE BLOOD RED UNSTOPPABLE JUGGERNAUTS OF DEATH. Intimidation is an emergency button you hit when you or someone else needs to keep their butt from being chewed off.

[Saturo]

HUGE BLOOD RED UNSTOPPABLE JUGGERNAUTS OF DEATH.

Not really unstoppable. Two autoshots and it's dead.

[Kalliope]

HUGE BLOOD RED UNSTOPPABLE JUGGERNAUTS OF DEATH.

Not really unstoppable. Two autoshots and it's dead.

BM hunter pets don't drop that fast, unless the shooting hunter works for Blizzard.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Saturo know's that, she is just commenting that most pet's are fairly fragile.

[Saturo]

Saturo know's that, she is just commenting that most pet's are fairly fragile.

Yah, I meant it more that you can't call them UNSTOPPABLE JUGGERNAUTS OF DEATH, they really are not that powerful.

[Kalliope]

Saturo know's that, she is just commenting that most pet's are fairly fragile.

Not with the buffs. Pets don't die to AoE except in rare cases (last boss of Gundrak comes to mind), and if they're being focused in PvP, they hold up better if they're not a dps pet.

[Saturo]

Yes. If it's tenacity, it takes three shots instead of two.

[Kalliope]

Yes. If it's tenacity, it takes three shots instead of two.

Then you're doing it wrong and not popping defensive cds/getting your pet out of there.

(Fair enough, if you're going up against SHADOWMORNE, they MIGHT die that quickly and there's nothing you can do. But not everyone has that kind of gear, so saying all pets die that fast is ridiculous.)

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Saturo know's that, she is just commenting that most pet's are fairly fragile.

Not with the buffs. Pets don't die to AoE except in rare cases (last boss of Gundrak comes to mind), and if they're being focused in PvP, they hold up better if they're not a dps pet.

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say here. DPS pet's, or ferocity, can and should spec into both lick your wounds and heart of the phoenix for PvP, which keeps a ferocity pet active a lot longer then anything the other two specs can bring to the field.

As far as the AoE goes, in PvE you're right. There are certain insta-gibs that will murder your pet in very short order if you don't call them back, but knowing when to pull them back is important. As for PvP, it all depends. If some one focus's on your pet, then yea it's dead. But from AoE, it depends. I've had pet's in the thick of things with Mend Pet ((And lick your wounds for ferocity)) still go down from the sheer amount of AoE flying around. But your milage may vary, I suppose.

[Saturo]

Yes, because evidently that 500 or so DPS from the pet is far more important than dealing damage. Or did you mean ALL defensive talents, which is... Cower?

Pets are laughable in PvP. Your impression of a strong, unkillable pet only means that your enemies so far haven't done AoE in it's proximity.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Eh, I wouldn't say pet's are laughable at all, just to be honest. Sat, you've admitted yourself that you aren't BM, and don't see the joy in it. My pet's are forces of destruction in PvP, and they have gotten a good deal more durable since being able to get a portion of the hunters resilience. I just have to make sure I know where they are at pretty much all times. The 'problem' with the damage split between hunter and pet is that you have to focus both on one target to get the full effect. Spreading it out is still effective, just not as much so.

[Kalliope]

Yes, because evidently that 500 or so DPS from the pet is far more important than dealing damage. Or did you mean ALL defensive talents, which is... Cower?

Pets are laughable in PvP. Your impression of a strong, unkillable pet only means that your enemies so far haven't done AoE in it's proximity.

Palla already covered the two big defensive cds for ferocity pets (who are basically glass cannons). For cunning, cornered is passive and bullheaded is good for getting a snared pet out of harm's way. Tenacity has last stand, which is a massive lifesaver, and a ton of passive +healing from blood of the rhino (40% bonus on a fully specced tenacity pet, 50% for a BM hunter's).

And that doesn't even count the pets' racials.

[Saturo]

So in order to have my pet alive, I need to spec into what I consider useless, like Bullheaded, and run with a turtle?

Sorry, I just won't do that.