Cataclysm Talent System - Completely Changed

[Suzi]

I don't know how I feel about this. At first it sounded like a bit of a nightmare to have to get used to a new "streamlined" talent tree (don't we Hunters have enough to relearn each expansion pack release? ), but I've since slept on it and read a little more about it and it doesn't sound too bad... as long as they can do their words justice.

From the long thread about it we know the level 10 ability is not going to be Beastial Wrath but it could be taming an exotic pet. I have to wonder if Beast Mastery would end up being split if that were the case because extra pet talent points isn't exactly helpful at level 10 (pet talent trees won't be changing much). Of course we'd need to have much lower level exotic pets to tame if that were to be the case, but I just don't see it personally.

At the end of the day it doesn't really make much difference to me what they alter because I still enjoy playing and I'm sure I felt the same excitement and nervousness when they announced agility would equal AP 1 for 1, or when the pet taming skill system was removed and pet talents with family abilities was announced, or thinking about losing mana and getting focus, and so on. Some of those changes I didn't look forward to at first, but they grew on me once I'd tried them for myself or seen them in action so I will reserve judgement until I hear more news at least.

[Ryai]

Of course we'd need to have much lower level exotic pets to tame if that were to be the case, but I just don't see it personally.

Um there already are low level exotics?

Just search exotic- lv 1-60 [as of now], and there's 49 searches. And even for 1-30, there are several; Chimeras, the Kurken and a worm.

Then we also know of lv 12 Chimera's in Azshara. I doubt people are really looking at exotics elsewhere either.

[Mockingbird]

I have to wonder if Beast Mastery would end up being split if that were the case because extra pet talent points isn't exactly helpful at level 10.

I dunno about that, can you imagine? you'd get 4 talent points to spend when regular hunters don't get ONE until 20... That's a pretty massive boost given how slowly pet points are accrued while levelling!

[Ryai]

I have to wonder if Beast Mastery would end up being split if that were the case because extra pet talent points isn't exactly helpful at level 10.

I dunno about that, can you imagine? you'd get 4 talent points to spend when regular hunters don't get ONE until 20... That's a pretty massive boost given how slowly pet points are accrued while levelling!

Which is why I doubt it would be our lv 10 mastery, as there'd be most likely to much QQ from PVPers.

[Ghanur]

Why: Live team fever.

Thank you, Mania!

Interesting read, and it describes my problems with the actual direction WoW is heading, that is random jumps in any directions

WoW has reached a complexity that can't be handled by the B-Team (or is it the C-Team?) anymore. They need a clear design, a goal and work for it - not this patchwork after patchwork, like today.

[Sarayana]

I have to wonder if Beast Mastery would end up being split if that were the case because extra pet talent points isn't exactly helpful at level 10.

I dunno about that, can you imagine? you'd get 4 talent points to spend when regular hunters don't get ONE until 20... That's a pretty massive boost given how slowly pet points are accrued while levelling!

It really does make an immense difference! I was leveling my tallstrider and forgot to give her talents, and I was wondering why my dps was so incredibly low... once I realised and plopped in talent points, my dps went up by oh, just under 1k. That's just talent points, she was still level 75 at that time.

At the lower levels, I can just imagine what 4 talent points would do! It would allow you to grab cobra reflexes, dash, and put a point in spiked collar or bloodthirsty! Your pet will be unstoppable!!!

Why: Live team fever.

Thank you, Mania!

Interesting read, and it describes my problems with the actual direction WoW is heading, that is random jumps in any directions

WoW has reached a complexity that can't be handled by the B-Team (or is it the C-Team?) anymore. They need a clear design, a goal and work for it - not this patchwork after patchwork, like today.

Yes thank you Mania. Very interesting read, and it really does ring true.

Ghanur, I think we're seeing the opposite of patchwork right now. True, we're seeing trickles of information, bits of news about this and that, all very scattered and seemingly unrelated... but I get a strong feeling that what we're getting glimpses of is a much more cohesive and organised effort to redesign the game than they've put in since they first designed it.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

No, they aren't. Not compared to Earth shield, not compared to Mortal Strike, not compared to Bloodthirst, and not compared to pretty much any other 31, 41, or 51 point similar single point talent. The one's I named are the ones we know for sure are going to be applied at level 10, and all of them, ALL OF THEM blow those four talent points and exotics out of the water. Also keep in mind, we are talking about LEVEL TEN. Assuming a pet DPS of 20 for level ten, two points in cobra reflexes ends up being about a 6 DPS increase ((Remember that cobra reflexes actually lowers the damage of each hit)) and one point in spiked collar wouldn't even equal a full single DPS increase. Like wise, the hit points or armor garned if you go that route will not amount to much at that point either.

So allow me to re-iterate. In comparison to the other potential abilities that other classes are for sure getting, Beast Mastery would be far, far from overpowered. I'd be complaining a lot more about, say, warriors getting mortal strike at level 10, and so on and so fourth.

[Calgary]

There's also no reason that the talent Beast Mastery, as it is now exactly, will be what we get then. 'Taming exotics' doesn't /need/ to be connected to 'four free talent points'.

I might suggest not thinking about it in its current form, as that's very likely to change, and disassociate 'exotics' with 'free talents'.

[Kalliope]

No, they aren't. Not compared to Earth shield, not compared to Mortal Strike, not compared to Bloodthirst, and not compared to pretty much any other 31, 41, or 51 point similar single point talent. The one's I named are the ones we know for sure are going to be applied at level 10, and all of them, ALL OF THEM blow those four talent points and exotics out of the water.

Spoken like someone who has NO IDEA how powerful hunters are in the lowbie brackets. Our pets chew people up and spit them out as corpses EVEN WITHOUT EXOTICS COMING INTO PLAY.

Just pop into a 10-19 Warsong with a lowbie hunter, something between 10-15. You'll be surprised at how much you can kill with just a regular pet without dying, regardless of how crappy your gear is.

And that's without ANY talent points. Even if level 10 pets don't get talent points, exotics having an extra ability are going to tear up that bracket still, especially considering the number of debuffs that we'll have at our disposal (the scope of which we don't even know yet, since they haven't been released).

[Palladiamorsdeus]

You'd be very, very wrong, Kalli. Very wrong. I am perfectly aware of how hunters play in the lower brackets. Actually, I am perfectly aware of how hunters play in every bracket. Do you know what else I am aware of? How every OTHER class play's in those brackets too. You are making a blanket statement saying that "Hunters would be so OP if they had those four talent points!" without taking into consideration what EVERYONE ELSE WOULD BE GETTING. And exotics are NOT the massive tide turners that you seem to think they are. Their special abilities are perhaps a step above the norm, with Chimera's winning for having a range snare that does magic damage on a short cooldown. They are NOT over powered, and they would NOT make hunters overpowered.

[Saturo]

Lowbie hunterpets? Powerful? Hah!

The only reason your pet seems strong is because people ignore the goddamn pets before they get AoE. Give DS to a lowbie pally and your dead is nothing but a sparkly corpse.

EDIT: Ninjaed.

[Kalliope]

Lowbie hunterpets? Powerful? Hah!

The only reason your pet seems strong is because people ignore the goddamn pets before they get AoE. Give DS to a lowbie pally and your dead is nothing but a sparkly corpse.

EDIT: Ninjaed.

Depends on how much damage the thing does at low levels.

With no hand of freedom at that level, pallies are easier to kite.

Can't storm what you can't reach.

[Saturo]

Dead was supposed to say pet, don't know what I was thinking. I'm getting sleepy.

Since pallies and warriors are getting their AoE-singletarget abilities at low levels now, your pet is doomed, because it's glued to them.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

That damage is going to be halved though, Saturo, though they are likely to die just from being in close contact with a constantly storming paladin.

[Saturo]

It is? Anyhow, your second point is valid. When the pet comes into contact with a meleeclass that AoEs as a basic part of it's rotation, think DS and Whirlwind, it dies. No avoiding that.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Yeah, all forms of AoE in the vein of Whirlwind, multi-shot, and divine storm are having their damage halved. For DS it's actually 55%, but you get the idea.

[Saturo]

Oh right, DS is AoE... I use it singletarget so much I've forgotten.

[Kalliope]

It really depends on how they're changing pets. At that level, with health pools, even with incidental AoE, pets stay up better than they do at higher levels.

[Saturo]

The only times pets had a high healthpool was back in vanilla, before we started getting good gear. Sure, they'll scale 100%, but who's saying they'll get ten health per stamina like we do? They might still end up dreadfully below us.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Everything stays alive better at lower levels.....*Laughs* But true enough, Kalli.