Mania wrote:I was quite taken aback by the notion that we're locked into our chosen tree until we've spent 31 points -- which essentially means until the entire tree is filled, given that the top talent is a 31-point talent now.
I suppose there might be some variations on how you spend your points at low level -- I mean in what order you take talents -- but it seems fairly minimized to me.
I thought that was just a badly phrased "Until you get your 31pt talent, you're locked in.".
If it wasn't, I feel pity for you people. There WILL be worthless PvP talents you have to waste points in, don't doubt that.
That was a very interesting article, Mania. It seemed spot on. The direction of WoW HAS really changed lately, and that's a good look into why.
And we don't know, Kalli. I know I keep saying that, but they didn't state what happens to the talents that are coming off of the tree's. It is entirely possible that they'll just make the effects baseline, pumping this spell, or that ability, or what have you. After all several of the most important talents are just being GIVEN to players as of this plan. But it's also entirely possible that they'll just cease existing.
Palladiamorsdeus wrote:Kalliope, I apologize but I can't take that seriously. Compare that four talent points to say.....Titans Grip. Or Bloodthirst. Or Mortal Strike. Or Chimera Shot. Or explosive shot. I could go on, but I don't think I need to. In comparison to what some classes COULD potentially be getting, those four talent points are quite literally nothing. Three points on top tier, and one point on second. More armor, more health, more attack speed, and one more point a little down.
IF you were to compare Beast Mastery to some one NOT GETTING ANYTHING, then yes, Beast Mastery does become overpowered. But compare it to pretty much any other of the potential 51 pointers to become active at 10, and that completely falls through.
WITH THAT SAID, I could see them removing the 4 talent points, giving the ability to tame exotics, and then sticking that 4 points as a deep talent some where in beast master.
This may actually happen- people have complained about Exotics not being worth 51 points.
I honestly don't care how many talent points we have as long as they are meaningful. Seriously, think about our pets. They have way less talent points than we do and they are only in ONE tree. Why should we be any different? I think, as a bm hunter, that all my points would be better spent on talents that make me the best bm hunter I can be. Not a pseudo bm hunter with enough points to tame the cool pets and the rest in other trees to round it out. We shouldn't have to round out our specs with other trees. We should be able to spec our hunters in one tree and have it work. I think the whole talent tree thing needs a fresh start. Fine, give us less points to use, but make each point do more. Honestly, why should I have to wait for my 51 point talent to train a lvl 12 exotic Kurken? I shouldn't. The exotic taming should be worked into lvl 10. Let us train exoics from the begining. Let MM and SV get some purposeful talent at level 10 also. Anyway I digress... I am fine with 31 points. I am fine with 70 points. I'd be fine with 10 points, if, and it's a big if, those points are meaningful and appropriate for our chosen spec. I'm dual specced BM/MM because I was stupid and spent 1,000 G on something I never used. I might actually use MM spec if there was something that made it worthwhile for situations. In my mind the only thing MM offers to me right now is more button mashing and not being able to tame exotics. (And yes, I know they do more dps, but that's not a good enough reason for me.)
Last edited by FuzzyDolly on Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think I'm more or less in the same mindset as you FuzzyDolly. None of these talent changes have made me angry or upset, in fact overall I like the sound of them more and more. Truthfully I wouldn't mind if BM hunters could get their exotic pets at low levels, as long as that low level talent wasn't accessible to MM or SV somehow. I'd like them to remain a BM-only feature.
Veph, from my understanding you get the upper tier stuff once you are locked into your tree of choice. And I am pretty sure that neither SV or MM would have access to BM's unique skills, and vice versa.
The general idea behind that, and something I kind of agree with, is that you learn to play your class a lot sooner because you have all of your skills pretty much from the get go. It make's sense, and will serve to make classes like Warriors and paladins a lot less boring to play early on.
From what I'm understanding, you have to *pick that spec* to get the defining bits of awesome. So the only way to get dual wield as a shaman is to be enhancement, etc. You couldn't talent into it and then have the rest in resto or what have you, the option to get it is simply no longer available in the trees.
If this is so, and exotics is part of what a beensy BM gets, then the option to tame them simply won't be in the tree anymore, you'd have to /be/ BM to get it, from the starting gate, by clicking 'omg I wanna be BM' or however they're doing it. Exotic Pets (and not Beast Mastery the talent point) wouldn't be any more OP than say, a tiny frost mage getting their water ele at 10. It's just a skin for the most part.
Calgary wrote:From what I'm understanding, you have to *pick that spec* to get the defining bits of awesome. So the only way to get dual wield as a shaman is to be enhancement, etc. You couldn't talent into it and then have the rest in resto or what have you, the option to get it is simply no longer available in the trees.
If this is so, and exotics is part of what a beensy BM gets, then the option to tame them simply won't be in the tree anymore, you'd have to /be/ BM to get it, from the starting gate, by clicking 'omg I wanna be BM' or however they're doing it. Exotic Pets (and not Beast Mastery the talent point) wouldn't be any more OP than say, a tiny frost mage getting their water ele at 10. It's just a skin for the most part.
.... *resubmurges*
This is right. Frost Mages have been confirmed to get their pet at level 10. It's not a talent, nor at the trainer, it's when you click on the "Yes I want to be a Frost Mage!" button (assuming this is something similar to that that we will get). Once you accept that then you get a "Congratulations! You now have a Water Elemental pet!" sort of message, or something. Ghostcrawler confirmed that we will not get Shadowform, Moonkin nor Bestial Wrath at level 10 though. Ret Paladins do get Divine Storm though. I did ask him about taming exotic pets, just have to wait and see if he will see my post and reply to it. :/
I actually like it. It sounds like they are trying to do this: After level 10, you start putting points inot the tree you like. Every other level you get to put a point into that tree. Through out the leveling process, you get passive abilities to make up for the ones lost in the talent trees. I like this because you get the passive abilites without spending the points, and it kinda sounds like there will be passive talents you will only get if you master a certain tree. this kinda sounds nice. It will make the trees stick further apart, i do believe.
That's odd, why no Beastial wrath? It's an important button to press, and it isn't really a passive skill....hrm. Well, guess we'll see in this up and coming beta build.
In all honesty, my first reaction was something along the lines of "No! Why, why,?!"
Then I read the blue post. The new system sounds really nice to me, for all the reasons that everyone else has stated. I really am curious to fine out what our lvl 10 skill will be. I think I'll stay optimistic.
What I think they might do is incorporate the more passive buffs that won't be affected by Mastery in the skills themselves, and they'll gain the buff and increase as you level. Like at lvl X you learn the skill, then at Skill Rank X the buff appears, increasing every X skill levels.
There all over the place on this one. They can't make up there mind on how many talents they want. They are really dumming down the game alot. If you can't make up your mind or do alittle research on your class then you don't need to play. However this is still Beta.. Nothing is final yet. However the path there going I'm not sure if I like it. I guess I will need to see the Talent Tree reflect this change.
Talent Tree Vision
One of the basic tenets of Blizzard game design is that of “concentrated coolness.” We’d rather have a simpler design with a lot of depth, than a complicated but shallow design. The goal for Cataclysm remains to remove a lot of the passive (or lame) talents, but we don’t think that’s possible with the current tree size. To resolve this, we're reducing each tree to 31-point talents. With this reduction in tree size we need to make sure they're being purchased along a similar leveling curve, and therefore will also be reducing the number of total talent points and the speed at which they're awarded during the leveling process.
Talent Points gain rate
About one every other level, but there are some exceptions. We are trying to alternate new abilities and talent points where possible. You will have 41 talent points at 85.
How big are the new trees?
They have 38-42 or so points in them. You could spend all 41 points in one tree, though often you'll want a 5/5/31 or a 0/7/34 build instead. Every talent is 1, 2 or 3 talent points. Earlier levels have about 8 points on them (typically a 2, 2, 3) and deeper levels have about 5 points on them (typically a 1, 2, 3).
I hope we do get to be able to tame Exotics if you go BM, as low level exotics would finally make sense, and that ridiculous talent would finally be gone, with exotics still being BM only. And I am looking forward to this even more now ever since it was said Why yes Exotics get a 3rd ability that normal pets don't get!.
Now just a case of people not whining of Oh I feel forced to use Exotics :/
I was just nudging Saturo about the "worthlessness" of PvP talents. 
