Good bye Volley, It was nice knowing you... : (

[Zeilla8]

Grrrr, i don't want to loose volley

What annoys me most is the reasoning. 'it felt magical' but yet we don't have to carry arrows/bullets anymore cuz they magically appear? If you're gonna pic an arguement, I wish they would pick one that makes sense... (don't get me wrong I am glad for the bag space, but you get what I mean that it just isn't logical?)

[Palladiamorsdeus]

There was a version of volley where the hunter visibly fired out arrows in a volley pattern, but for some reason they changed it back to the arrow shower. Either way, trying to make the excuse that "It looks to magical" is just plain bad, especially from a developmental point of view.

[Rhyela]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that there are a few things to keep in mind:

1) regarding PvP - we're going to have a LOT more stamina now and they are removing a lot of the stunlock ability from rogues (or so I hear). So getting stunned initially may not be as big of a butt-kicking as it currently is. PvP today will not be the same PvP tomorrow, a lot of things are changing for a lot of classes, so try to see the bigger picture.
2) regarding AoE - devs have already mentioned that they are going to focus more on strategic, careful pulling in Cataclysm. In Wrath, every pull was an AoE-fest, not anymore in Cataclysm. Chances are, most pulls wouldn't necessitate ceaseless Volley anyway. We may only be able to fire on one or two targets at a time, else risk wiping the group/raid.
3) beta is still in its relatively early stages, things will be changing a LOT from here til then, so try not to feel doom-and-gloom about ANYTHING until Cata hits the shelves.



I was initially curious as to why we're losing volley, but at the same time, I understand a lot of changes are in the works so I'll wait and see how it all pans out before getting upset.

That is all.

[Vephriel]

Hehe, spot on Rhyela. My train of thought but written more concisely than I could have. ^^

I know I'm in the minority, but I guess things like this just don't get to me. Short of removing our pets or something, I can't think of anything Blizzard could do that would actually make me angry. It'll all sort itself out by Cataclysm. I'm not worried.

[Sukurachi]

well, so much for relatively painless leather farming.

[Lilandre]

Well maby they will make multi hit every target in a cone area or something...

but still Volley was a core ability. I know hunters who never touch arcane shot, I know hunters that dont use multi ever, and I know hunters that dont even know we have a nature resist aura... sometimes i really hate blizz

[Rhyela]

As a hunter, I do not feel Volley is a core ability. We were forced into using it as a core ability in Wrath because every pull of every dungeon (just about) required us to. Wrath took out any strategic pulling, CC, etc. Mages are only brought to blast stuff, hunters are only brought to shoot stuff, warlocks are only brought to DoT stuff. Any semblance of CC such as polymorph, traps, fears/dispels (or whatever that warlock ability is that CCs demons), etc., aren't even used. In order for DPS classes to be accepted to raids, we HAVE to fight to stay on top, and that means going all-out and nuking every single pull you come across. To be honest...I hate it. It takes no thought. Sure, hardmodes might be better (I haven't done one), but for the general WoW population, it's just AoE-spam to the umpteenth power. We have been forced to shine strictly by how high we can get recount to go, not by our CC knowledge or pulling ability, not by our ability to prioritize kills and to manage our threat. In Cataclysm, tanks will have to fight for aggro, healers won't be able to sit there and spam one or two buttons without going oom, and DPS might actually have to prove they can do more than just sit there and Volley with one hand while reading a book with the other.

I can't wait.

Edit: (I can't stop thinking about this, lol) There's probably going to be a fair amount of wiping if things end up the way I feel they're headed. Tanks won't be used to having to work too hard for aggro, and DPS will want to just immediately start nuking everything..... People may have to learn the hard way that instances are about more than just BLASTBLASTBLAST. I love fights like Moroes in Karazhan, where you kind of had to try to have a priest for Shackle Undead and a hunter for Freezing Trap to keep some of those mobs off of you. Man, I miss CC. Back then it was acceptable if your DPS dipped ever-so-slightly because you were watching the CD on your trap or poly.

So yeah guys, I'm sorry, but I'm happy about this change. It tells me the game is starting to head towards what it was like in Vanilla/BC. Hunters, IMO, should have never been an AoE class to begin with. For some situations, sure, but not as a core ability. That's the mage's area of expertise, and one they should rightfully have. I shouldn't be out-dpsing mages in AoE pulls. Rogues shouldn't be doing insane DPS in AoE pulls either, it's just weird. Or maybe I'm just old-fashioned.

I guess I'm just rambling now. Sorry!

[Satyr]

That's a kick in the teeth..They really do have a bad habit of really messing up the hunter class. So all the other ranged classes have AOE but hunters don't get it anymore because we have multi shot which only shots 3 different targets at once and is on a cooldown.

Multishot doesn't have a cool down.

[Satyr]

Well maby they will make multi hit every target in a cone area or something...

but still Volley was a core ability. I know hunters who never touch arcane shot, I know hunters that dont use multi ever, and I know hunters that dont even know we have a nature resist aura... sometimes i really hate blizz

In the current LK, I use arcane shot and multishot in my rotation.

In beta, I use arcane shot as a filler. I do use multishot in the AOE thing, since this last patch - with Volley gone.

[Anansi]

As a hunter, I do not feel Volley is a core ability. We were forced into using it as a core ability in Wrath because every pull of every dungeon (just about) required us to. Wrath took out any strategic pulling, CC, etc. Mages are only brought to blast stuff, hunters are only brought to shoot stuff, warlocks are only brought to DoT stuff. Any semblance of CC such as polymorph, traps, fears/dispels (or whatever that warlock ability is that CCs demons), etc., aren't even used. In order for DPS classes to be accepted to raids, we HAVE to fight to stay on top, and that means going all-out and nuking every single pull you come across. To be honest...I hate it. It takes no thought. Sure, hardmodes might be better (I haven't done one), but for the general WoW population, it's just AoE-spam to the umpteenth power. We have been forced to shine strictly by how high we can get recount to go, not by our CC knowledge or pulling ability, not by our ability to prioritize kills and to manage our threat. In Cataclysm, tanks will have to fight for aggro, healers won't be able to sit there and spam one or two buttons without going oom, and DPS might actually have to prove they can do more than just sit there and Volley with one hand while reading a book with the other.

Right. I don't actually mind the removal of Volley, I just hate the reasoning GC gave which rankled. Instead of giving a real reason (like a change in design of trash mob layouts, a change in design of other class or combat mechanics, because of a new ability or redesign being given to Hunters), he goes and gives an extremely lame "we didn't think it felt right for a Hunter" excuse, which is just another evasively lame reason like he's been giving for the past little while (eg when asked why Resto Shaman were the only healing spec that required Hit to use their mana regen via combat talent, he evaded with a "as long as nobody is getting something for free we think it's all ok" dodge and never answered the question, and later goes on to say that "we feel the classes being the only one to do x-ability are a design success" - all paraphrased - Volley is just the latest in this chain of lame, empty comments on core mechanics).

On the one hand I understand and agree with reasoning like Veph holds, that it will all balance out in the end, but on the other, I've too often seen patches or other content launch with utterly half-baked class mechanics that result in the class being on a rollercoaster of nerfs, buffs and redesigns (ie DKs over the past, what, year?) and I have very little confidence in Blizzard getting Hunters right, as I honestly do not believe they truly know what to do with the class, yet we're undergoing a major redesign.

My Hunter is the character I've put the most work into, most analysis, research and experimentation, and to see extremely glib comments coming from a source I don't really trust too much, that gets under my skin. If Volley is to be removed, give us the real reason why, not some empty, obviously inconsistent and fabricated reason.

[Rhyela]

Yes, I do agree with you there. There should at least be a well thought-out reason instead of what we were given (which was pretty darned vague).

I suppose I just try not to listen to GC too much, lol. But I do have faith that whether it be sooner or later, they will get it at least mostly right. Nothing can ever be perfect, of course.

My brother was telling me last night that a lot of "powerful" skills are being toned down a bit in beta, such as a warlock's summon-infernal spell, among others. I have a feeling it's for the same reasons I outlined above. Less nukey-nukey and more thought. He said that as far as the other spells and stuff, they're still very powerful and fun. He's played a mage and warlock so far and I guess he's really happy with how fire mages feel at the moment. He says they feel more explosive, like he likes. So perhaps there is a bright side to all of this.

[Adam-Savage]

That's a kick in the teeth..They really do have a bad habit of really messing up the hunter class. So all the other ranged classes have AOE but hunters don't get it anymore because we have multi shot which only shots 3 different targets at once and is on a cooldown.

Multishot doesn't have a cool down.

Yes it does. Without talents to reduce the cooldown it's cooldown is 10 seconds.

[Skyshot]

well, so much for relatively painless leather farming.

I was thinking the same exact thing. :/
That and quicker pet exp gain. Farewell easy aoe pet leveling!

[Kalliope]

1) regarding PvP - we're going to have a LOT more stamina now and they are removing a lot of the stunlock ability from rogues (or so I hear). So getting stunned initially may not be as big of a butt-kicking as it currently is. PvP today will not be the same PvP tomorrow, a lot of things are changing for a lot of classes, so try to see the bigger picture.

Yep, I've heard about the removal of stunlocking too, however, that doesn't stop rogues from being even more likely to get the opener on us. After all, it's not fair to the rogues that they can't totally lock down a hunter if they play things correctly, because they won't be able to win in that case. Hunters blast the HELL out of rogues once they get some distance. So looking at it from the rogue perspective, I don't think I'd want a guaranteed opener on a hunter if it means getting shot in the face due to not being able to lock them down. Now maybe it'll still be possible with creative use of gouge and such; I don't know. I don't have the beta. I'm just hoping that there's more to this situation than it appears based on the information currently available.

Oh, and I'm not married to volley being our specific way of getting rogues out of stealth. It's just that a single flare isn't enough. If its cd was removed and we could spam it, I'd be slightly less annoyed, although the real key of the flare/volley combo was standing on the flare and volleying outside of it to attempt to pull out the rogue.

Multishot doesn't have a cool down.

Yes it does. Without talents to reduce the cooldown it's cooldown is 10 seconds.

In beta, it doesn't. In fact, most shots don't.

[zedxrgal]

This could be very very bad. But at the same time could be ok to good. I love volley and use it heavily so the loss of it without something com ............ oh what's the word ....(have massive headache) ....... comparable or better is really going to suck ass and I doubt that multi-shot is going to be better or replace volley. I could be wrong and I really hope I am.

Just echoing what so many others have said it's not that it's being removed that has me so irritated it's their reasoning behind it. If this changes for the bad then I more then likely won't be rolling new hunters and will stick with having mages and warlocks. I'm not a very good melee player but I'm slowly learning it. Anyway.

This could really suck ass. I mean really. But we'll just have to wait and see.


Side note: Is the trap launcher in live???? How in the heck do you get it if so? I've yet to get this thing and cannot find it.

[Vephriel]

The trap launcher is a feature coming in Cataclysm. In live we have the Freezing Arrow, so in the expansion we'll be able to do that for all types of traps. It will certainly come in handy. Usually I run to a group of mobs that are pulled, drop an Explosive trap, then Disengage back and start firing. Being able to just toss them in will be great.

[zedxrgal]

Thanks for that. I knew I wasn't completely brain sloshed from this headache.

[Karathyriel]

Don't forget that

• You don't know how the new hunter will behave before Cata is finished and on your hard drive
• almost all cooldowns will be gone and you just have to decide what to do with your focus
• the multishot abilty might be changed to make up for that "loss"
• The new style of play will need CC and go away from the bombing

So keep it cool, people...

[Anansi]

It's just that a single flare isn't enough. If its cd was removed and we could spam it, I'd be slightly less annoyed, although the real key of the flare/volley combo was standing on the flare and volleying outside of it to attempt to pull out the rogue.

Yeah, Flare is pretty weak really. Now, if Camouflage means we cannot be targeted at all, then we won't really need Volley to deal with Rogues, which will be good. Hopefully the beta will allow level 85 soon and we can get some feedback on Camo.

[Kalliope]

It's just that a single flare isn't enough. If its cd was removed and we could spam it, I'd be slightly less annoyed, although the real key of the flare/volley combo was standing on the flare and volleying outside of it to attempt to pull out the rogue.

Yeah, Flare is pretty weak really. Now, if Camouflage means we cannot be targeted at all, then we won't really need Volley to deal with Rogues, which will be good. Hopefully the beta will allow level 85 soon and we can get some feedback on Camo.

Yeah, depends on how long camo lasts.

Mind you, I'll adapt if we get new tools for the new situations we'll be facing, but as of this moment, it SEEMS like we're losing a key part of our PvP survivability.