Good bye Volley, It was nice knowing you... : (

[Aeladrine]

I'm a little irked about this, but not too much. Volley has always been something I only use in dungeons for things like trash pulls when the tank wants to just blaze right through. I'll admit, I'm not much of a dungeon or raid sort of gal, but I didn't even know volley EXISTED until level 50 or so. I don't like using it, things don't burn down as quickly as I want them to (understandable, as it's IS hitting multiple things). However, multishot has been a genuine pain in my rear for a while now. It never really works quite how I want it to. For example, there's three mobs on my pet. I hit multishot and... it only hits one. That's been my experience, at least. This may have changed, it might be less sucky now. Maybe they'll change it in beta, and it will be OMGTOTALAWESOMESAUCE. Honestly, if I ever have need of AoE, I tend to CC instead. I prefer to be able to target one mob, burn it down, switch to the second, burn it down, break the third out of the trap, burn it down. For me, this is more effective than volleyvolleyvolley or multishotvolleyvolleymultishot.

This is also why I haven't been doing dungeons lately. Everyone's used to Wrath dungeons, even down at the lower levels. And if I CC an extra mob to concentrate on others, my CC gets destroyed by a mage or someone else doing insane amounts of AoE that aren't really needed.

I'm really excited for Cata dungeons, because it means I'll finally be able to fight the way I like without someone else screwing it all up.

[Silvarain]

Rogues can turn invisible. That feels like magic. I vote Rogues can no longer stealth.

We could get back to how Fan of Knives feels like magic. Rogues must be clown cars or something, with all the knives they must have to carry on them.

^LMAO!!!

when i got aimed i SO droped multi 4 it hit things i didnt want 2 hit. yes trap launcher may make up 4 the loss of poor dear volley, but why theyre tossing it out make me as sick as the rest of you if multi doesnt become voleyish then it will stay resting wit the dodos, at least 4 me

[Delphinie]

I like the change back to more thought needed to do a dungeon and less aoe laser-beams of death but what about the dungeons that are tuned to this type of play are they going to re-tune them would be my question. All tho I have been running normal five man with out having to aoe at all and using cc to get through it with just me and my mom(80 hunter as well, I'm teaching her how to cc pull) can't take the bosses we get em down to like 1/4 health and then loose, but we still attempt it and its fun.

[Kalliope]

I just disagree with the choice to penalize ONE class and remove the ability entirely. If they want us to CC trash, all they have to do is reduce the amount of AoE damage that the trash takes. Period. Then NO ONE gets to AoE those pulls. They did this in some LK raids; why is this changing now?

[kamoodle5]

I think this is completely bummed. Hunters should deserve an aoe as much as anyone else with a fashion. I've always found it useful in dungeons along with Explosive Trap in case there's a bunch of mobs. I have to admit, I don't use it much at all outside the dungeons, but then, I have always been careful in not pulling too many.

[Delphinie]

I use it a lot out side of dungeons for leather gathering, and in dungeon groups. Specifically in some fights in conjunction with explosive trap to take multiples out or to get argo so they don't get where they're going(laser eyes fight in one of the halls). I will be sad to see it go especially if we don't get some kinda replacement or equivalent.

[SpiritBinder]

Uh.

'Scuse me, but this is one of our few rogue counters. You know, to prevent openers, since THEY CAN SEE OUR TRAPS.

KINDA NEED THIS BACK KTHX.

*seethes*

I was thinking, coming from a pvp perspective, even if we do use a launched aoe trap, could not anyone see where the trap will be? I'm currently going on the current freezing trap and it's lovely little blue, sparkly traveling graphics, effectively showing every one around where you just placed your trap, then avoid the area? >.>

[Kalliope]

I was thinking, coming from a pvp perspective, even if we do use a launched aoe trap, could not anyone see where the trap will be? I'm currently going on the current freezing trap and it's lovely little blue, sparkly traveling graphics, effectively showing every one around where you just placed your trap, then avoid the area? >.>

Yep. Plus there's an arming time. So they can just...dodge.

Although a lot of classes do forget a trap is there and walk into it later.

[Valashe]

See it's stupidity like this that completely makes me rethink whether or not I'm going to make my Hunter my main once Cataclysm comes out. I really wish they'd stop screwing around with the abilities that work and finally fix this class five years on.

[SpiritBinder]

An update to the original post from GC..

I know I'm going to regret posting in this thread again, but I think it's the right thing to do so I'll take one for the team.

We think Multi-Shot is a more interesting ability and can fill the hunter AE niche (along with Explosive Trap). We'll have to change Multi-Shot from the current version to get it there. I'm very sorry if for some unusual reason Volley was your favorite spell as a hunter. We've been trying to consolidate abilities and free up some bar space and having multiple AEs that competed with each other seems like a good area to hit up. The Volley and Multi-Shot niches were very similar, which resulted in the latter being dead. We wanted to pick one and we though Multi-Shot felt more huntery and less "clunky" (to use a favorite Wow forums term).

Do consider that you won't be AE'ing yourselves through Cataclysm content the way you do currently. When you do need to AE, hunters will have the tools to do so. In situations where you do have to AE, you are probably not also trying to CC. When you're back to the level of trivializing lower level content, nobody is going to say "Don't bring a hunter. Their AE spam isn't spammy enough." We don't consider easily breaking rogues out of stealth a good reason to keep Volley around.

I think that hits most of the reasonable concerns. I care much less about addressing the unreasonable ones.

As always, those of you whose sole contribution is to post very inane or derogatory things will be banned.
Man, have we come a long way from "AE is only for trash."

There are still a few things in his reply that irks me.

but I think it's the right thing to do so I'll take one for the team.

Thinking that because you kinda buggerd up allot of current a hunters aoe ability, with a weak excuse, and then that you have to explain yourself as taking one for the team, is kinda sad. That's essentially telling us that it's our fault that some of us are upset about the change, but you'll have to take it on the chin to make us all feel better. Weird

When you do need to AE, hunters will have the tools to do so

Which is fine and dandy, but these tools we now have to use look like they are old and blunt. Compared to everyone else, that are still shiny and new, and that we used to have as well.

We'll have to change Multi-Shot from the current version to get it there. I'm very sorry if for some unusual reason Volley was your favorite spell as a hunter. We've been trying to consolidate abilities and free up some bar space and having multiple AEs that competed with each other seems like a good area to hit up.

This however should have been announced as soon as volley was removed, this would have saved a lot of grief. They try and say they communicate with us to get a better understanding/ bounce ideas/ keep us in the loop, but why not just tell us what your thinking off the bat if you already knew where you were going. All this unnecessary drama due to poor communication.

[Kalliope]

lol at "easily" breaking rogues out of stealth - it can be hit or miss. I'm VERY happy to see GC address this head-on, though. And he does have a point; if that'd be the only reason to keep volley around, it's kind of dumb to. Depending on what the changes to multi-shot are, we could very well get along all right without volley. Or hey, maybe we could get a second flare or something. There are other options.

We'll see how this plays out.

[SpiritBinder]

Or hey, maybe we could get a second flare or something. There are other options.

OOoooo Like maybe a trap tallent?

Advanced Trapping
1/2 points
Your Fire traps also act like a flare with a 5 yard radius
Your Frost traps also reduces the target's casting speed by 10% for 5 seconds
You Snake traps also have a 5% to entangle the target for 2 secs
2/2 points
Your Fire traps also act like a flare with a 10 yard radius
Your Frost traps also reduces the target's casting speed by 10% for 10 seconds
You Snake traps also have a 10% to entangle the target for 2 secs

[Kalliope]

Oooh, unactivated fire traps working like flares? THAT'S kinda cool!

Entrapment already works on most traps, so the snake effect would have to be different...maybe an additional resist to dispel.

[Silvarain]

Or hey, maybe we could get a second flare or something. There are other options.

OOoooo Like maybe a trap tallent?

Advanced Trapping
1/2 points
Your Fire traps also act like a flare with a 5 yard radius
Your Frost traps also reduces the target's casting speed by 10% for 5 seconds
You Snake traps also have a 5% to entangle the target for 2 secs
2/2 points
Your Fire traps also act like a flare with a 10 yard radius
Your Frost traps also reduces the target's casting speed by 10% for 10 seconds
You Snake traps also have a 10% to entangle the target for 2 secs

Spiritbinder ftw
such a talent would seem to make traps something 2 worry about in pvp. couple this with a shorter/no trap setup fee and the launcher cd doesnt seem THAT bad.

[Kalliope]

I have another idea - let us remote-detonate our traps!

[Adam-Savage]

Where is the actual post on the wow forums. I wanna read the reply's to him.

EDIT: Never mind I found it.

http://www.google.com/custom?domains= <==== For the Win right here when u need find something on a site.

[Kalliope]

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/26560868356/volley/ works too.

[Adam-Savage]

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/26560868356/volley/ works too.

I didn't realize you could click on the subject header to go to the forum.

[Adam-Savage]

Looks like someone polity told off Ghostcrawler in a sense to.

Oh, and one more thing. Again, opinion. I'm not stating fact vs. zomglies. This is slightly outside the topic, but the topic has reminded me of, and serving an example of something I've noticed happening in the forums as far as Blizz responses go.

QQ'ing is going to happen. There is a difference between concern and QQ obv. Unfortunately some people are unable to communicate concern. Some of it is done intentionally, and some people just aren't able to communicate well how they are displeased with something. It'll be a cold day in hell when it will be 'taught' to every forum user how to concisely express how they feel or experience game play. Of course, abusive language isn't something you want. But you can not expect people who don't know how to communicate how they feel or their opinion about something to meet a certain 'standard' of feedback based on an arbitrary idea. RealID wouldn't have changed that either.

On the other hand, WoW team members can communicate effectively. Otherwise they wouldn't have the type of job that they have. I can see how directly communicating with what essentially is a mob would become frustrating and could become jaded about it after a number of years, but in my mind that is no reason to be using unprofessional speech in a situation (such as 'QQ') where a product is being changed and players are uncertain of the consequence, especially if that change is when something is being removed. Someone saying, 'I don't like this,' may say that because they don't know and feel wary, They just aren't communicating well, but that doesn't make them invalid and a source of ridicule by a professional representative of a company.

I personally do not feel like communication by Blizzard representatives that includes this kind of language, or using terse, short answers to complicated questions is going to ever put that representative in a position where a player that does not trust your judgement of a situation is going to begin trusting you. I understand that changes happen, etc. But saying something like, 'Volley removed from game, not a bug.' , or,' 'I'm going to regret communicating with you' is only going to open up more questions, more anxiety, less trust, etc. Beta or not. Simply adding. 'We are also looking at changes to multi shot. We'd appreciate your patience as we work on what we believe will be a better solution.' Sure informality has its place, I'm not saying, don't joke around. But this jaded, snarky type of stuff isn't very endearing and I think that not giving a professional amount of courtesy about what you're saying to customers may seem pointless sometimes. You may not even consider them customers. Maybe you've never had to directly deal with customers before, only professionals or peers. But I am pretty certain that not resorting to that type of communication, always, will put you in a better light and can affect things positively. That other way, is only going to bring more griefing. You're only going to get more snark and more people following along in a trail of snark and it only contributes to what we're trying to avoid, bad communication and a negative forum culture. I guess what I'm saying is, don't make a bad thing worse. Lead by example.

/end wall of text.

Thanks for reading.

[SpiritBinder]

Looks like someone polity told off Ghostcrawler in a sense to.

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one worried about the way the issue was approached.