Cataclysm Stat Changes

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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Saturo »

sargeaw wrote:I wonder if there will be pots or food that increase focus regen or instantly give focus like mana and health pots??
I actually think so. We already have Mana pots, Thistle Tea (Energy) and Rage pots. It sure sounds petty to not give Hunters a pot.
EDIT: Veph beat me to it by about five seconds. :shock:

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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Jolyroger »

Edrawr wrote:
Tahlian wrote:
Edrawr wrote:I may be a complete and utter noob here, but could someone explain to me how pets benefit more from straight AP than agility? I know that when you mouse over the stats in your character pane, it says that pets gain x amount of your attack power, and that currently they don't gain anything directly from agility. However, doesn't agility affect a hunter's attack power, which would then affect the pet's attack power? So, agility indirectly gives pets more AP? I guess I'm just confused in that agility gives you attack power, and attack power gives you attack power, and pets get your attack power. So...it looks the same to me. :?
Pets get a percentage of attack power from us from our RAP (Ranged Attack Power) stat. They do not get anything at all from our Agility stat, beyond any contribution to RAP it gives us. So for a beast master, it can be better to go for straight AP gems and enchants because the pets get a greater contribution from that stat. Simply put, a BM hunter can get more "mileage" or "bang for your buck" (pun intended) from a +40 Attack Power Bright Cardinal Ruby, because they get 40 AP and the pet gets, say, 20 of that (I am not 100% solid on the actual scaling percentage, so this is just for purposes of illustration). The 20 Agility Delicate Cardinal Ruby gives us 20 AP, a little crit, a little dodge, and a little armor, so the pet would only get perhaps 10 AP from that gem.

Is that a little clearer? Really, the difference between the two winds up being rather minute. I gem and enchant for AP rather than Agi, and I ran my stats on the spreadsheet today to see if I perhaps needed to switch to gemming Agi. The result? Totally regemming would net me a whopping 2 DPS improvement. I don't know about you, but 2 DPS is not enough for me to totally redo every slot's worth of epic gems.
Aaah, ok, that made it a lot clearer - thank you!!! ^_^
Now I gemed for Agi and crit. I am a BM, and always will be. I feel (and I could be wrong about this) that though my pets may loose a bit of AP with me not stacking AP, I think they do gain some Armor from my Agi as I do. I really cannot wait to see how the new pet scaling will look. For me it has always been all about the pets, hence why I have always been a BM. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Kalliope »

On the subject of Thistle Tea, I'd like to see that stuff updated to exist with endgame mats. Plus, you get less energy for using them at higher levels, so it's overall not worth it. -_-

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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Dragonpuff »

sargeaw wrote:It sure sounds petty to not give Hunters a pot.
I totally read that as "It sure sounds petty to not give Hunters pot." Did a double-take there....
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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Jakkra »

Hmm, I wonder what they intend to do with the "Careful Aim" talent, then? Will there be another one to give us a good chunk of AP? I'm just worried of losing a lot with all the changes going around.

And I SURE hope I enjoy focus more than I have energy, on other occasions... /worry /fret
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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Mania »

Keep in mind that they've said they will be making massive changes to many skills and talents. At this point I don't think we can guarantee that Careful Aim (or any other talent -- I am just using Jakkra's post as an example (sorry, Jakkra!)) will even exist, or if it will exactly how it may be changed.
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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Jakkra »

Hehe, it's all good, Mania. I'm positive the talent will be ditched.

Here's to hoping the path systems and reworked talents keep us top dps contenders! :3
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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Saturo »

Well, with the dumbing down the game has / is about to receive, I wouldn't be surprised if they ditched all but three classes, namely warriors (tanking), mages (dps) and priests (healers). I'm actually pretty sure that when they release their new MMO, well be seeing something like that.

I don't actually like what they're turning this game into.

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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Kalliope »

Saturo wrote:Well, with the dumbing down the game has / is about to receive, I wouldn't be surprised if they ditched all but three classes, namely warriors (tanking), mages (dps) and priests (healers).
Why bother with three when all we need are paladins?

In all seriousness, Blizzard is at least attempting to keep classes balanced AND unique. That can be a tall order. I think classifying hunters with the rest of the physical classes (FINALLY) is a step in the right direction.

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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Gimlion »

I TRULY hate the focus idea, screw blizzard and their damn change. But like I've said, I won't get my way, the focus change is happening, so I'll either have to learn to live with it, or reroll one of my other fav. classes, either Shammy Durid, or DK

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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Kalliope »

Gimlion wrote:I TRULY hate the focus idea, screw blizzard and their damn change. But like I've said, I won't get my way, the focus change is happening, so I'll either have to learn to live with it, or reroll one of my other fav. classes, either Shammy Durid, or DK
We don't even need mana. We don't cast spells to dps. We gear like the other agility-based physical classes, not the casters. Personally, I don't envy the enhancement shammies. They're stuck with mana, since they still have access to spells, but the physical mail gear that previously appealed to them (and to us) will be different, since hunters won't need int.

You're entitled to your opinion, but it would be nice if you backed it up rather than just ranting about not liking the idea of focus.

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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Nimizar »

Kalliope wrote:You're entitled to your opinion, but it would be nice if you backed it up rather than just ranting about not liking the idea of focus.
I agree "I just don't like it" when we know next to nothing about the change doesn't leave much room for discussion about the possible benefits and risks associated with the system. Still, if someone doesn't acknowledge the defects in the current system, or would prefer to just continue to put up with them rather than risking something new, there isn't a lot that will convince them of the benefits other than seeing the end result come Cataclysm (or, more likely, come 4.1 or 4.2 - we've seen the rollercoaster ride DKs and pallies went through at the start of Wrath).

Between the stat changes, the focus change and any talent tree changes, I expect we will have to relearn how to gear and play our class. I'm personally looking forward to that, since I like a bit of novelty and the metagaming aspect is one of the things I enjoy about WoW, but I can understand people that are comfortable with the current system disliking having to start over again in figuring out how their toon works.

On the focus change in particular, I'm especially looking forward to being rate limited by focus instead of GCD and cooldown locked all the time. My other level 80 is a feral druid, and while the kitty rotation is a little nuts, the fact that the shortest cooldown in the primary rotation is 30 seconds makes for a very free flowing selection of abilities. Of course, that's a bit of a double-edged sword in that it also offers many more opportunities to mess up the rotation, but I do prefer it to the straitjacket of my hunter's assortment of short duration cooldowns.

I've said this before, but it's worth repeating: the folks with the most legitimate reason to feel concerned are those hunters that have tried a rogue or feral druid for a significant period of time and genuinely disliked the resource mechanic. While focus is a different resource, I expect it is going to feel a lot more like energy than it does like the current hunter system. The trick is figuring out if it is the mana vs energy that someone dislikes in switching from a hunter to a rogue or druid, or the ranged vs melee element (I know whenever I'm chasing after the tank as a kitty I miss being able to sit back and pew-pew without much caring what the tank is doing with the boss).
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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Akyo »

personaly i have nothing againts beeing a mana class. its just how ive learned the game.
Sure when i think about it is strange sins we dont have spells but as long ive been able to shot my arrows it was never much of a question for me.

Im wondering how they are gonna balance the Focus use and gain so that we dont end up just blasting it and then forced to auto shot 20-30% of our time. (or steady sins some says it will regen focus)

Also wondering what will be about with Aspect of the viper. Sins we wont be useing mana it is in for a change or removal.

Sins warriors will be grabing strength gems and the rest of us will be grabbing agil gems, will AP gems be removed or changed?

Blizz have mentioned in the past they wanted to make our pets smarter...how? and do they really need to be?
Hey i wouldnt mind if my pet ran around a pool of fire but in some cases you just want your pet at the target as soon as possible, getting a lil burn while getting there isent to big of a deal.(unless its a instant death pool of fire of course)

Im looking forward to the changes as much as i am worried about them.
There will be big changes and more than likely it will need some relearning and getting used too.

Though id also like some more info about the good old rares like Humar, cluckmother, ghost sabre, snarler, timber and so on.
I dont want anny rares to dissapear, even if there is others with the same model and skinn.
Many have a sentimental vallue for many hunters. even if they dont currently have em by their side.

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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Rhyela »

I, for one, am looking forward to the mana --> focus change. I've always thought it was a little odd that hunters used mana (granted, arcane shot does sound like a magical thing, but everything else?...). I also personally feel that the regen and such will be fine. If focus regeneration is about the same as our pets', which I feel it will be, then I don't think it will be much of an issue. It'll probably be something to where our bigger shots cost more focus and steady shot is kind of the "focus dump" (while also giving us focus back), like bite/claw/smack.

But, that's just speculation. I have no idea how it will turn out. I do, however, feel that it may be a bumpy ride to start. It's probably pretty hard to get something perfect the first time. While beta is a great way to test things out, that's still just a percentage of the population. So it could look ugly at first, but I think in time this will be a good change for us. :)

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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Kalliope »

Akyo wrote:Im wondering how they are gonna balance the Focus use and gain so that we dont end up just blasting it and then forced to auto shot 20-30% of our time. (or steady sins some says it will regen focus)
This is why I'm looking forward to focus. It's NOT the same as energy, since energy can't be regenned faster by using an ability and thus far, signs are pointing to steady shot doing that for us. Since we're all already using steady shot, it's not like we've got to work in a totally new shot. In fact, steady is already the most practical shot to use while in viper (at least in my experience; feel free to correct me if this is less efficient), so it's essentially the same mechanic. Not that we end up in viper a whole lot anymore, but you know what I mean.
Edrawr wrote:I, for one, am looking forward to the mana --> focus change. I've always thought it was a little odd that hunters used mana (granted, arcane shot does sound like a magical thing, but everything else?...). I also personally feel that the regen and such will be fine. If focus regeneration is about the same as our pets', which I feel it will be, then I don't think it will be much of an issue. It'll probably be something to where our bigger shots cost more focus and steady shot is kind of the "focus dump" (while also giving us focus back), like bite/claw/smack.

But, that's just speculation. I have no idea how it will turn out. I do, however, feel that it may be a bumpy ride to start. It's probably pretty hard to get something perfect the first time. While beta is a great way to test things out, that's still just a percentage of the population. So it could look ugly at first, but I think in time this will be a good change for us. :)
This I agree with 100%. Also, it'll be cool to bond with our pets even more by using the same mechanics they do! We won't be ranged rogues/kitties; we'll be like our pets more than we'll be like any other class. And that's pretty nifty.

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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Dragonpuff »

The Focus thing does kinda freak me out because I have played a Rogue and Druid to about level 40. While I did enjoy both for the change from my normal Hunter, the thing is, I wasn't very good with them. D: I didn't do very well managing the amount of energy with what skills I needed to use. That's why I'm scared. I don't want to suddenly suck on my Main. Granted, if we get Focus back by using SS, it shouldn't be as bad as I fear, but I'm still gonna be a little cautious until I see exactly how it's going to work.
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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Mr. Perfect »

I really can not wait for the stat-flattening.

I remember starting the game with only the five basic stats, and watching as all these extras got added. It's making gear selection a lot harder then it needs to be, since you can't get everything all on one piece and end up having to sacrifice one for the other. When I can go back to just stacking agility and stamina to the ceiling, the hunter's life will be all good. :) There is already a confusing stack of gear hanging out in inventory to see what it all turns into when converted to the new system.

Not sure about the focus bar, but if it's just another bar that runs down when shooting things, it can't be that bad...
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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Gimlion »

See, but in my opinion, the stats make gearing fun for me. I like taking apart gear and stats and finding what will be the best overall. It is a LOT more fun to do that than just stack two stats until the agility fountain runs dry. I would be EXTREMELY bored with that. So I would disagree about the gear thing, but I know a lot of people can tend to be lazy, so if things are as simple and easy as possible then people will cheer for life. Like my old hunter CL, he was a selfish, self-righteous, 'above all others' type, but I liked him none the less. But when BM was nerfed beyond oblivion, all he said was and i quote "Damn, too bad I can't two button raid anymore." And I just thought that was rather ridiculous, but realized, that is how a TON of people are, so while I'll get into something because not only do i kinda have to, but I like it, people will, on average, choose the easier way, not the harder, even if only slightly.

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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Palladiamorsdeus »

I don't think the style of play will be that different come Cataclysm. At worst we'll have to weave in steady shot a bit more, but I think that'd make things at least a bit more intersting. At current, I hate the mana system on my hunter. Hate it. Our mana regen system is horrible, it halves our damage dealt and doesn't restore it fast enough, and no one waits for the DPS to get mana back, and lord know's its just plain bad to have to halve your damage mid-boss fight or bad pull for any extended period of time. Every other DPS spec has some way form or fashion to restore their mana reliably, except hunters. The flip side is, of course, that AotV doesn't have a cooldown on it, but I don't really find that comforting when I am running around in it getting mana back at a fairly slow rate.

What might turn us on our heads is the change to talent trees to accomodate this new style of play, as well as the change to basic spells and such. Right now the limiting factor to our harder hitting abilities is a cooldown, but come Focus change, that's being removed. Will our moves hit harder? Will they not hit as hard? How is that going to transition into the talent trees? How is our pets garnering 100% of our stats going to effect the trees as well? I'm very curious to see where this goes.

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Re: Cataclysm Stat Changes

Unread post by Kalliope »

Having played pure caster classes, I have an appreciation for AotV. Doing half damage is better than doing none at all, which is what casters are faced with.

But we're not casters.

Comparing us to the other physical classes, our regen really sucks, since they can go forever and we can't.

So yeah, it'll be very interesting to see how our rotations change.

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