Cynical Brit Leaving WoW :(

[Sigrah]

Honestly, I don’t see the problem with these changes. If they want to go and nerf content once it’s out of date, so be it. It really doesn’t affect me or my guild if they make out of date raids easier for those that couldn’t handle it when it first came out. From our guild’s perspective, here’s how we see it:

We already have regular T11 down on farm. Once T12 comes out, we plan on moving right into it and starting the process of learning new fights all over again. There won’t be any reason for us to continue going back to T11 for gear when we can spend Justice Points on the T11 stuff we might need once it’s moved to the Justice Vendors, especially since we’ll be focused on replacing it with T12 stuff anyways. As far as gearing new players and alts are concerned, we can do that via the Random Dungeon Finder like we did in LK, and we can just run them until they have enough Justice Points to buy whatever T11 gear they need to start in on T12 raiding. Finally, these changes aren’t going to change our recruitment standards any. If a player is bad, they won’t last long no matter how geared they are.

Yes, I understand other guilds have different ways of doing things, I’m just explaining how the guild I’m in operates. If anything, a few of us are looking forward to Blizzard nerfing the T11 content once it’s out of date because then we can start running some GDKP runs on our off days again. We used to do that back in the LK days to make gold as well as gear up our own alts. I don’t know how good the market would be for that in Cata, but I’m guessing with lots of nice BOE’s that can drop from trash mobs, it’s bound to be decent.

[Raederle]

Very much this.

It's not the first time this has happened. If Totalbiscuit wants to leave over something so trivial, good. He was pretty annoying anyways.

This change is only going to make it easier for pug raids to see bosses. Overall fewer people have been raiding in Cata than in WotLK.

If you're in a competent raiding guild, this won't affect you anyways (it's only normal modes)

If your guild is still struggling to down content, than this is a welcome change.

Content now will be old content in 4.2 with all of your gear being upgraded in the new raid. It's the same as moving from Naxx to Ulduar with the only change being that Naxxramas was already nerfed when it was released.

It's all a matter of perception and where you stand. Someone who has been around since vanilla and has major raiding chops is going to feel differently than someone who's never even gotten a character to 85. And that's normal. And with what, 10 million WoW subscribers, there is literally NO WAY the devs can make choices that will make everyone happy. The numbers are just too big.

[Sonata]

You seen that video of the guy soloing the 2nd and 3rd boss in heroic stonecore, both at the same time?

Yes I've seen the DK that did it, but wasn't the reason for him being able to do that was because he was abusing a glyph that was made towards Frost and Unholy DK's survival utility originally, him being a Blood DK. This glyph got fixed in 4.1 I believe, so it should not be possible anymore. Clearification if I am incorrect, like I said I'm not too up to date.

But back to the subject anyway. I can agree that there should be a viable third mode that is made for maybe towards pugging, but doesn't reward the same rewards, would be interesting and satisfy some of the player base.

I had an interesting thought yesterday, if they didn't nerf content even after a patch would that maybe give the development more time to do a bigger patch? I mean how long has it been since 4.1 was released and 4.2 is already on the door, they could make the wait time a little longer. They could do longer encounters, maybe larger dungeons.
I know there was a mention at some point that raid dungeons should be made shorter, but if your guild does...maybe one wing at a time or even two and then stops advancing until the next raid night.

Also this "class" learning system is interesting, I know the devs might not implement this because there isn't much questioning for it, seeing as the silent majority would have the game easy and breezing.

But as it was said, they can't make everybody happy but this is quite making alot of people not happy.

EDIT: my english fails me yet again! *fixfix* I hope I'm not offending or confusing anyone with my rambling.

[AdamSavage]

Here is a couple quotes I picked up while reading the blue track. One post is a player post and the other is a blue poster. I put his name to make it look neat. Bashiok doesn't actually have an account here on the forums. Just saying.

If you want hard raid content the Firelands is there for you.

What we are seeing is just obsolete content getting nerfed to people can get geared easier for Firelands.

Plenty of people like the challenge, but not everyone has the ability or maybe even desire to be in a guild capable of tackling it right from the get-go.

It's always been our intent to offer new raid tiers in Cataclysm that are difficult to provide challenge to the raiding guilds, and then gradually allow older content to self-nerf as people gear up through VP, and then eventual literal nerfs to the content. That's something we've been communicating for some time.

Burning Crusade swung the pendulum one way, and Wrath of the Lich King swung it back too far the other. We're attempting to find that middle ground where there's still something brutally difficult for the cutting edge, but content gradually comes down until it's extremely accessible (ie PUGable) either simply through gear proliferation, or literal content difficulty nerfs.

There's always going to be two sides of the fence, some people want things more accessible for them and that's cool, we want it to be too, and some people think it should be difficult and always be that way because that's the way they had to do it. The fact of the matter is that as an MMO the end-game bar is constantly being raised, and progression content is in general not a place where we're going to purposefully gate prestige through difficulty. There are some exceptions of course, hard modes and unlockable bosses are purposefully there to be more difficult challenges, but as a whole our intent is to create a constantly moving ramp upward for Normal difficulty raids. That has to mean that the Normal raid content that was the hardest will one day be the easiest.

You will very likely see this same happen for Firelands when the raid tier above it is released.

[Acherontia]

My issue isn't with the raids personally. I am going to make a couple comments, but be aware first that I'm NOT going to tell you which camp, if either, I stand in, because these are genuinely neutral comments and I want them to be interpreted as such. These are from a development standpoint.

Two comments I see a lot from hardcore raiders, to which I take offense:

1. "If people don't want to learn their class or how to play, they shouldn't see this content."
2. "Blizzard is dumbing down this game for casuals."

Plenty of people do know their class, but they don't want to, or can't, put in tons of hours each week toward progression raiding, nor do they wish to be in a strict raiding guild. Many people know how to play, and well, but their guild is a group of likeminded friends, or PvPers who raid now & then. The nerfs are to allow these people to see the content.

I'm getting quite ticked off by the way some players are now using the word "casuals" in a derogatory fashion. The majority of the game isn't geeks who spend days in a row playing WoW, poring over numbers and spreadsheets, checking spell coefficients or stat weighings for DPS modification, nor do they wish to play that way. I'm not saying all raiders play this way, incidentally, or even that it's bad. Point is, the raiders who rag on "casual" players seem to forget that most people who play WoW play it to relax, and it's a bit silly that the company who runs the game would spend the majority of their developer resources changing only content that ONLY raiders will see. They know that we're getting bored, they know there's not a lot of shit to do end-game right now, so they're doing what they said they would do--ramping down the raid difficulty--while adding in more daily hub content.

THAT BEING SAID.

Heroics are too easy. The reason, I suspect, most guilds don't see raiding content isn't that it's DIFFICULT, but rather that it's not very accessible. You need to have a dedicated team ready on time every time, and that's enough of a pain to pull together IMO. Same reason rated BGs aren't doing as well as they should have. Balancing the game around large groups is iffy at best, because large groups aren't what pay the subscription fees. Point here is, I don't think making the raids easier will solve a single thing.

An MMO, in my mind, should be about adventure and fun. It should be exploring, about epic PvP fights, random encounters and events, the beauty of the world/setting, and in forging your own path--challenging yourself, and taking pride in what you accomplish. WoW's become community in-fighting, number-crunching and achievement-whoring. They're losing the plot, and I'm pretty sick of it as well--not for the same reasons that the Cynical Brit is, but because it's just not a game anymore. It's not fun.

Maybe things will change when we see new content, and maybe not--but to me, it's not about the raiders vs casuals, it's about a lack of game content for EVERY player, and the feeling that a lot of major issues are simply being ignored.

[Royi]

Two comments I see a lot from hardcore raiders, to which I take offense:

1. "If people don't want to learn their class or how to play, they shouldn't see this content."
2. "Blizzard is dumbing down this game for casuals."

They (hardcore raiders who are complaining about this) generally appear to be that old man who hates young people and yells at trees...

Since it was hard for me, it has to be hard for you! Blah blah. I don't know what the major fuss is because hardcore players will be in tier 12 and prancing around. Who cares if a *gasp* regular player is able to get tier 11? blah

Heres a happy video of Grandpa from the Simpsons:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARXfQzfl9EQ

I'm getting quite ticked off by the way some players are now using the word "casuals" in a derogatory fashion. The majority of the game isn't geeks who spend days in a row playing WoW, poring over numbers and spreadsheets, checking spell coefficients or stat weighings for DPS modification, nor do they wish to play that way....

Point is, the raiders who rag on "casual" players seem to forget that most people who play WoW play it to relax...

WoW's become community in-fighting, number-crunching and achievement-whoring. They're losing the plot, and I'm pretty sick of it as well--not for the same reasons that the Cynical Brit is, but because it's just not a game anymore. It's not fun....

it's about a lack of game content for EVERY player, and the feeling that a lot of major issues are simply being ignored.

Great points Ache. I basically could have done a ^^ under your entire post too. Basically you read my mind and decided to put it into a post in a more articulate manner.

[erwil]

They (hardcore raiders who are complaining about this) generally appear to be that old man who hates young people and yells at trees...

Hardcore raiders don't have any reason to complain imo. "Casuals" are not a threat to them in any way. It's those people in guilds which are not part of the progressive competition on their server, aka, not doing particulary well even if they go out and gloat about their 12/12, who rage the most.

I'm really disappointed to see cynical go, I've always enjoyed his podcasts.

[Kalliope]

Heroics are too easy.

Oh. My. God. I have to debate this point on its own.

The first week of Cata, heroics were FREAKING IMPOSSIBLE, even in full 333 gear. Halls of Origination in particular was tears-inducing, due to the length of the instance and considerably difficult trash. STONECORE was a death sentence; groups couldn't pass the FIRST BOSS. And if they did somehow manage to do that, the third boss would often be a dealbreaker. Insert much emo due to certain unreachable relics off the final boss. Deadmines and Shadowfang Keep were brutal as hell. It was a long time before pugs could actually complete Deadmines.

Long story short: regular Cataclysm heroics started out as being too hard. They are "too easy" now because more players running them outgear them. And yes, thank the Blizzard gods, they were nerfed. Deadmines trash may have been slightly overnerfed for guild runs, but at least it could be pugged safely.

Let's look at the troll instances: these are not always puggable currently. I can tell you exactly which bosses foul people up. In ZA, eagle and dragonhawk are the gear/execution checks (not to mention the trash just before eagle, bear, and dragonhawk). ZG stops players on snake, panther, Zanzil, and Jindo. Oh god, pugging Jindo initially was brutal.

Overgearing helps, but not always. There's only so much carrying that can be done. I think the difficulty level on the troll instances is spot on for pugs. Organized groups SHOULD have an easier go of it; if you do everything the way you should, then it'll go well. If you don't, well, things can still go very very wrong.

[AdamSavage]

The new Heroics can be quite painful indeed to try and pug. Zulman isn't as bad but you still get people that forgot to mark stuff, or when they do and try to crowd control when there all bunched up, it fails because there to close to each other. I tried to do one last night with my friend who is a healer, a damn good one @ that. She had our servers top guild ask her to join. I told her, it's one thing if you ask to join, it's another if they there asking YOU to join. They see your skill and know your good. Anyway back on topic, even with a good healer, if they group is being stupid then your going to wipe no matter how good your healer is. I had groups where you don't get past the boss where you have to walk around this maze and others where nobody clicks on the proper cauldron to get the right debuff.

[Acherontia]

Yeah, the new heroics are decent difficulty-wise IMO; the old ones were nerfed far too hard, and once again (due in part to gear scaling, which is another thing I think MMOs generally do wrong but let's not get into that right now lol) we're blasting through them chain-pulling without CC.

That said, I think they were still puggable from the start. They were hard at first, sure, pre-nerfs--but I could still always get through them in a pug. Same with the Zandalari ones--unless I have a complete idiot or two in group, I'm generally pugging through with only one or two wipes now. I like heroics to be a challenge, and the Zandalari ones are okay for that, although already are becoming a bit overly easy.

[Lisaara]

Heroics are too easy.

Oh. My. God. I have to debate this point on its own.

The first week of Cata, heroics were FREAKING IMPOSSIBLE, even in full 333 gear. Halls of Origination in particular was tears-inducing, due to the length of the instance and considerably difficult trash. STONECORE was a death sentence; groups couldn't pass the FIRST BOSS. And if they did somehow manage to do that, the third boss would often be a dealbreaker. Insert much emo due to certain unreachable relics off the final boss. Deadmines and Shadowfang Keep were brutal as hell. It was a long time before pugs could actually complete Deadmines.

Long story short: regular Cataclysm heroics started out as being too hard. They are "too easy" now because more players running them outgear them. And yes, thank the Blizzard gods, they were nerfed. Deadmines trash may have been slightly overnerfed for guild runs, but at least it could be pugged safely.

Let's look at the troll instances: these are not always puggable currently. I can tell you exactly which bosses foul people up. In ZA, eagle and dragonhawk are the gear/execution checks (not to mention the trash just before eagle, bear, and dragonhawk). ZG stops players on snake, panther, Zanzil, and Jindo. Oh god, pugging Jindo initially was brutal.

Overgearing helps, but not always. There's only so much carrying that can be done. I think the difficulty level on the troll instances is spot on for pugs. Organized groups SHOULD have an easier go of it; if you do everything the way you should, then it'll go well. If you don't, well, things can still go very very wrong.

This, very much this!

[SylviaDragon]

thats so sad. I love TB and love watching Azeroth daily. Im going to miss him and his wow stuff. I understand what he is saying though. Wow is not holding my intrest all too much as of late for many reasons. I stick around though bc i love some of the pepole/guilds but i admit i have been eyeballing RIFT and the new Star Wars old republic stuff.

I am not all too happy with the nerfs to how easy gear can be obtained now. However as a 70 twink who saw the end of doing arena for a reason, i kinda saw this stuff comming. (just look at the old arena gear for twinks. used to have to work for it, now you can buy the whole set for less honor then you can sneeze at) =/

gotta wonder where this is going.

[Setanta]

I think the thing that has always amused me about these type of situations it that they always revolve around some aspect of a MMO being "too <insert word here>". The fact that there is even a "raiders v casuals" argument is to me as silly as the even more ridiculous "pvp server v. pve server" mentality.

And I think that Achonerita hit the nail on the head with this one.

[Anyia]

The first week of Cata, heroics were FREAKING IMPOSSIBLE, even in full 333 gear.

Well, yes and no. The first 48-72 hours they weren't impossible. In fact, that was the most enjoyable time in Cata so far for me. Alright, so I was a nutter who attempted a realm-first hunter (and got soundly beaten), but to me the initial heroics where you had to work things out on the fly together with Banes of the Fallen King, Celestial Defenders and other highly skilled players was a lot of fun.

Were the heroics tuned too high for the casual audience? Yes, probably (though it wasn't as bad as Shattered Halls if you ask me). Did the level of fun decrease with the success rate of pugging heroics? Yes, definitely.

What am I trying to say here? Umm... probably something along the lines that perhaps the tuning of both dungeons and raids should be in sync. I.e. if you want to attempt Heroic Raids, you should have Heroic Dungeon gear, but for regular raids regular dungeon gear is sufficient. Tuning it that way would hopefully let Blizz keep the harder difficulties in there without disadvantaging those who just want to see the content. It would also fix the issue of having to grind regular raids in order to do the almost-same-but-more-challenging fights in heroic raids.

[SgtMakkie]

The heroic dungeons were unforgiving, you had to move right away or interrupt every single time to down a boss. I still don't see what the problem is/was?!? The fact the majority of people were not able to complete them is more a reflection on poor game design from Blizzard, however not in the vein you are probably thinking as you read this.

Only recently have Blizzard done anything towards helping you learn how to use the abilities of your class. They have now 85 levels to help you learn to be a better Hunter, Warrior or <insert your class here>. Yet they do nothing! I would love to see the following in the design of quests across the whole spectrum of levels.

Firstly blizzard would need to create a framework, which would scale the difficultly and challenge to the player. The framework would basically be a system for checking the players level, learnt skills, boa gear vs non etc and would take these variables and come up with a challenge. Harder if you say have the boa gear (scaled of course on how much of it etc), easier if not. Now say you bring a friend in and he is 85, then Mr or Miss 85 is going to be very busy as the difficultly will scale in relation to the additional class.

Now these challenges can be basically anything that your specific class can or should be able to do at x level.

So a few examples:
A warrior of sufficient level would need to use both pummel and hamstring to slow a target and interrupt it's spell casting. Should he fail in either more than twice the mob should do enough damage to kill him and you have to kill 10 of these mobs.

A hunter could be presented with a challenge where as he accepts his quest his pet suddenly gets trapped (or no longer able to be summoned - for the smart peeps ) and he is then forced to kite the mobs in order to survive and complete the challenge.

Basically ..... these can be pretty much anything. Every region across Azeroth, Outland, Northrend etc should have these quests hidden away and able to fire off on any given quest the player picks up, which would result in the player not being able to directly skip them (as many players don't go and do all the quests in a region). These challenges would reappear later on, ensuring the iterative nature of human learning was also used

Now, you have finally reached 85 (hopefully a better player) and interested and willing to be challenged further. By doing this Blizzard will help generate a smarter and better player base, or at the very least be working towards it's creation. I loved the heroics at the start of Cata, they were hard, they were a very refreshing change to the joke that WotLK had given us and they made you feel you had done something Heroic!

[Cerele]

i has been on for so long,
nerfs or not ive grown quite fond of my character, friends and my pixels
and we are so close to hydras its not even funny.
blizzard for godsake dont nurf dont nurf
i dont want to loose 6 years of hard work, sweat blood and tears for this.
so freakin close to getting the reason i joined wow.....

[Vasken]

I'm getting quite ticked off by the way some players are now using the word "casuals" in a derogatory fashion. The majority of the game isn't geeks who spend days in a row playing WoW, poring over numbers and spreadsheets, checking spell coefficients or stat weighings for DPS modification, nor do they wish to play that way....

Point is, the raiders who rag on "casual" players seem to forget that most people who play WoW play it to relax...

WoW's become community in-fighting, number-crunching and achievement-whoring. They're losing the plot, and I'm pretty sick of it as well--not for the same reasons that the Cynical Brit is, but because it's just not a game anymore. It's not fun....

it's about a lack of game content for EVERY player, and the feeling that a lot of major issues are simply being ignored.

This. This. This. I honestly want to /bonk some people on this forum and the official forums sometimes.

WotLK branched its advertisements out for casual players, allowing people with several jobs, kids or less time than others to play the game. I'd imagine at least 20-30% or more players are casual- though I'm not entirely sure. Hardcore raiders are simply... Extremely vocal. While many of the casual players are more than capable of doing the current content, this change'll help those that are clearly struggling. They won't be getting fantastic loot on a silver platter- the gear from these raids isn't anywhere near as good as the (soon-to-be) current content loot!

If a raider's blowing up about old content being nerfed, then they definitely need to step outside and perhaps dedicate a thought to other players with less time than themselves. They're not bads, as people say. The 'bad' players might be able grab epics- but they'll be unable to down Firelands.

Understand that people are upset that there'll be less challenge... But that's what heroic modes are for, they're untouched. Firelands normal. Firelands heroics. Those too. Quickly grab gear from the normal and fling yourself into the heroic version of BoT if you're after a challenge.

(Though, the insertion of an easy mode with lesser loot might solve a lot of problems. Raiders keep their difficulty!)

[erwil]

(Though, the insertion of an easy mode with lesser loot might solve a lot of problems. Raiders keep their difficulty!)

^
Approved. The topic on the US forums about Easy/Normal/Heroic difficulties sounded like a great idea to me. Just hoping Blizzard would at least consider it.

[Worba]

The heroic dungeons were unforgiving, you had to move right away or interrupt every single time to down a boss. I still don't see what the problem is/was?!? The fact the majority of people were not able to complete them is more a reflection on poor game design from Blizzard, however not in the vein you are probably thinking as you read this.

Only recently have Blizzard done anything towards helping you learn how to use the abilities of your class. They have now 85 levels to help you learn to be a better Hunter, Warrior or <insert your class here>. Yet they do nothing! I would love to see the following in the design of quests across the whole spectrum of levels.

Firstly blizzard would need to create a framework, which would scale the difficultly and challenge to the player. The framework would basically be a system for checking the players level, learnt skills, boa gear vs non etc and would take these variables and come up with a challenge. Harder if you say have the boa gear (scaled of course on how much of it etc), easier if not. Now say you bring a friend in and he is 85, then Mr or Miss 85 is going to be very busy as the difficultly will scale in relation to the additional class.

Now these challenges can be basically anything that your specific class can or should be able to do at x level.

So a few examples:
A warrior of sufficient level would need to use both pummel and hamstring to slow a target and interrupt it's spell casting. Should he fail in either more than twice the mob should do enough damage to kill him and you have to kill 10 of these mobs.

A hunter could be presented with a challenge where as he accepts his quest his pet suddenly gets trapped (or no longer able to be summoned - for the smart peeps ) and he is then forced to kite the mobs in order to survive and complete the challenge.

Basically ..... these can be pretty much anything. Every region across Azeroth, Outland, Northrend etc should have these quests hidden away and able to fire off on any given quest the player picks up, which would result in the player not being able to directly skip them (as many players don't go and do all the quests in a region). These challenges would reappear later on, ensuring the iterative nature of human learning was also used

Now, you have finally reached 85 (hopefully a better player) and interested and willing to be challenged further. By doing this Blizzard will help generate a smarter and better player base, or at the very least be working towards it's creation. I loved the heroics at the start of Cata, they were hard, they were a very refreshing change to the joke that WotLK had given us and they made you feel you had done something Heroic!

I like the idea in general, and if you want to make access to raids and heroics conditional on completing those quests, THAT I would support. But otherwise, players have the right to play through the game their own way on their own speed.

Another similar idea that has been suggested is ilvl based solo instances, with adjustable difficulty levels (ranging from hard to insane - no need for EZ mode since that's what solo'ing is); this would give you a sandbox to tie together all the things you learned in the "Your Class 101" quests, where you could experiment and make your mistakes without causing group wipes.

Challenging players before they try the (hard) instances will go a long way toward reducing wipes later. Obviously solo content cannot teach you anything about teamwork no matter how challenging, but it will give you a solid base going into the raids that you otherwise wouldn't have.

[Royi]

The heroic dungeons were unforgiving, you had to move right away or interrupt every single time to down a boss. I still don't see what the problem is/was?!? The fact the majority of people were not able to complete them is more a reflection on poor game design from Blizzard, however not in the vein you are probably thinking as you read this.

Only recently have Blizzard done anything towards helping you learn how to use the abilities of your class. They have now 85 levels to help you learn to be a better Hunter, Warrior or <insert your class here>. Yet they do nothing! I would love to see the following in the design of quests across the whole spectrum of levels.

Firstly blizzard would need to create a framework, which would scale the difficultly and challenge to the player. The framework would basically be a system for checking the players level, learnt skills, boa gear vs non etc and would take these variables and come up with a challenge. Harder if you say have the boa gear (scaled of course on how much of it etc), easier if not. Now say you bring a friend in and he is 85, then Mr or Miss 85 is going to be very busy as the difficultly will scale in relation to the additional class.

Now these challenges can be basically anything that your specific class can or should be able to do at x level.

So a few examples:
A warrior of sufficient level would need to use both pummel and hamstring to slow a target and interrupt it's spell casting. Should he fail in either more than twice the mob should do enough damage to kill him and you have to kill 10 of these mobs.

A hunter could be presented with a challenge where as he accepts his quest his pet suddenly gets trapped (or no longer able to be summoned - for the smart peeps ) and he is then forced to kite the mobs in order to survive and complete the challenge.

Basically ..... these can be pretty much anything. Every region across Azeroth, Outland, Northrend etc should have these quests hidden away and able to fire off on any given quest the player picks up, which would result in the player not being able to directly skip them (as many players don't go and do all the quests in a region). These challenges would reappear later on, ensuring the iterative nature of human learning was also used

Now, you have finally reached 85 (hopefully a better player) and interested and willing to be challenged further. By doing this Blizzard will help generate a smarter and better player base, or at the very least be working towards it's creation. I loved the heroics at the start of Cata, they were hard, they were a very refreshing change to the joke that WotLK had given us and they made you feel you had done something Heroic!

I like the idea in general, and if you want to make access to raids and heroics conditional on completing those quests, THAT I would support. But otherwise, players have the right to play through the game their own way on their own speed.

Another similar idea that has been suggested is ilvl based solo instances, with adjustable difficulty levels (ranging from hard to insane - no need for EZ mode since that's what solo'ing is); this would give you a sandbox to tie together all the things you learned in the "Your Class 101" quests, where you could experiment and make your mistakes without causing group wipes.

Challenging players before they try the (hard) instances will go a long way toward reducing wipes later. Obviously solo content cannot teach you anything about teamwork no matter how challenging, but it will give you a solid base going into the raids that you otherwise wouldn't have.

I really miss the Attunement system. I loved everyone of those attunements. Now its just average ilvl attunement. Not as fun

being level a lvl 58 resto druid in MC and hitting #3 on the healing charts (out of like 10 or 11 or so against lvl 60's) was a great experience for me