Assist Stance is crap.

Unread post by **Gimlion** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:29 pm

As a non-PvPer, I didn't think that the change to stance would make THAT big of an impact on my playing. I was so, so, SO wrong.

The general idea behind the Stance isn't terrible, and while I think it could have been added WITH Aggressive, I wasn't too concerned. I use assist, and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

The problem is, with trash pulls and groups, I have to, HAVE TO start the pull with a multi-shot, which is a 40 Focus drop at the beginning, and a huge nightmare if the tank isn't great with threat. I'd love to be able to send my pet in, and have him attack all the mobs that we're fighting, like the old Defensive stance worked. But NOOOOOO, my pet only attacks mobs that I've personally attacked, and unless I start the fight with a multishot, wasting nearly half my focus and pulling more threat than wanted, the damned beast won't stay out there. He just casually runs back to me, then wastes 30 of his own focus to RE-DASH out to the other mobs. I find it very aggravating to say the least.

I find it hard to believe this is how Blizzard intended this change, but it could be. Do any of you Petopians know if this is indeed a bug, or just 'Working as intended'?

Unread post by **Novikova** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:31 pm

Pretty much. Or if there's a pvp horde around apparently assist means 'GET IT GET IT' even though I have 0 interest in fighting them.

Unread post by **Cerele** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:35 pm

i like my pet attacks what i do, i just wish it was instant not 2 seconds, what they really f***ed up was removing auto target.... i feel really dumb and i just hate tab targeting = /

Unread post by **Moore** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:35 pm

What's funny in arena is that the stances are overriding my direct commands.

Like it's me vs Mage/Lock

I send pet in and we wail on the mage lock fears me, pet keeps coming back and attacking the lock whos attacking me rather than the mage who I have targeted and am spamming Ctrl + 1 to send him to attack >_>

My Dragon Cave · Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:40 pm

For assist, I think he's only SUPPOSED to attack if you have a target. For the situation like you're describing, I'd say go with defensive. Assist is supposed to be for when you want more control over exactly which target your pet is attacking without needing macros, or manual attack (assuming you want it to attack your target). The big problem is it doesn't work this way... Honestly, I feel like right now it works as it should sometimes.. and sometimes it acts like defensive.. and then RARELY it acts like aggressive (which is apparently a known bug, which was SUPPOSED to have been fixed. Then sometimes defensive worked like it used to... and sometimes.. it really doesn't...

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... 940?page=1 Blizz post on the bug forums asking for 4.2 hunter/pet problems.

What's funny in arena is that the stances are overriding my direct commands.

What stance do you have? Cause if you're using assist, it's working as intended... Probably best for this kind of thing would be passive.

Unread post by **Acherontia** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:55 pm

Defensive now only has the pet attack what's attacking YOU, not what you're attacking.

At least, that is what it SEEMS to intend, although in rigorous testing, I've found that the pet can use either this new mechanic OR the old one, apparently with no pattern.

And regarding

What's funny in arena is that the stances are overriding my direct commands.

--This. I find that no matter what I do to try and get my pet to return to me--even if I'm not attacking a damn thing--he blatantly refuses. It's pretty infuriating in PvP to have him die repeatedly with no control possible on my part.

I really, really don't know why the hell they swapped out Aggressive for basically a broken Defensive, and changed Defensive to crap.

My Dragon Cave · Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:01 pm

Defensive now only has the pet attack what's attacking YOU, not what you're attacking.

At least, that is what it SEEMS to intend, although in rigorous testing, I've found that the pet can use either this new mechanic OR the old one, apparently with no pattern.

See.. I'm not sure how it's supposed to work... I would have EXPECTED it to stay the same.. cause was there any point in changing it? Plus, Blizz never announced any change.. and honestly.. anything, no matter how seemingly minor, to the behaviour of our pets is drastic to us hunters... I posted in that thread asking for some clarification on how the stances are SUPPOSED to work now.

I just hope these issues don't end up taking as long as the whole aoe/targetted spell thing took to confirm/fix....

Unread post by **Gimlion** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:03 pm

Yeah, all the stances are buggy. Even passive. If I want my pet to stay at my side, I have to use "move to", Passive, and pray that he doesn't go back into the battle anyways.

Maybe that's what's wrong Cerele, I noticed they got rid of the Switch Target after death thing. As a clicking Target-er (My tab key likes to disagree with me), it makes things much more difficult. Did Blizz just up-right remove the feature? Or is it bugged, or disabled in a options menu?

Edit: Changed a name... The previously mentioned person hasn't even commented in this thread.

Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:28 pm

I've found that I prefer Assist Stance over Defensive stance because it seems to perform the most like the old Defensive stance. Yes it's a little buggy and has done some wonky things, even for my warlock, but I just deal with them and continue on my way. I HATE that the new Defensive stance requires you to get hit before your pet goes in--you shouldn't really ever be taking damage and the only reason I can see myself using this is to try and catch a rogue in PvP. I also dislike that hunters under level 10 are forced into having their pets in defensive stance--not all my hunters are decked in BoA gear, having to wait to get hit sometimes can cost someone their little hunter's life, and it certainly means it takes longer to kill the damn mob.

Unread post by **Shade** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:31 pm

Cerele wrote:i like my pet attacks what i do, i just wish it was instant not 2 seconds, what they really f***ed up was removing auto target.... i feel really dumb and i just hate tab targeting = /

I'm not fond of the loss of auto target either, thus I macro'ed most of my shots.

/targetenemy [noharm][dead]
#show Aimed Shot
/cast Aimed Shot

Just change 'Aimed Shot' to the name of each of your shots and replace the shots on your toolbar with the macros. Works just like the old auto shot then.

My Dragon Cave · Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:42 pm

I HATE that the new Defensive stance requires you to get hit before your pet goes in

See.. most of the time, my pet WILL go in when I attack, and before I get hit....

There's some serious bugs and behaviours that just seem purely random that really need to get fixed...

Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:43 pm

I've been playing my baby troll yesterday and today, and she's under level 10, and her raptor refuses to go after my target until I'm starting to get punched in the face.

Unread post by **Slapperfish** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:34 pm

(deleted)

Unread post by **Morven** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:47 am

I think too often they nerf things for PvP reasons (sometimes, in my opinion, pretty spurious reasons) without thinking of how it damages the class for other things.

Also, perhaps, too many people putting their pet on aggressive and wiping parties?

Unread post by **Lohuran** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:10 am

Well, I agree that removing Aggressive stance does somewhat affect our ability to find rogues and druids (not that much, really. Really.), I'm actually a bit happy to see it go. There've been many, many times that I've gotten myself and other people killed in and outside of groups because I forgot that my pet was set to Aggressive.

A long long time ago, when I was just a wee hunter, I'd been pvping out in Gadgetzan (there used to be a battlemaster out there. I think. It's fuzzy.) and when I got out, my pet immediately attacked a flagged Alliance that was in the area, resulting in my horrible, horrible death by Bruiser. I hit the ground before I even knew what happened.

Not to mention all the mobs I've accidentally pulled in heroics. Blegh...

Website · Unread post by **Anyia** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:19 am

Shade wrote:I'm not fond of the loss of auto target either, thus I macro'ed most of my shots.

/targetenemy [noharm][dead]
#show Aimed Shot
/cast Aimed Shot

I am so stealing this macro!

The new "improved" targeting is driving me nuts!

Unread post by **Kayb** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:43 am

why was this stance change even made, my god its aweful, if they wanted a different stance they should have just added on top of what we had, they were damn fine before

http://dragcave.net/user/foru21dr · Unread post by **Foru21dr** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:52 am

CrystalKitten wrote:
I HATE that the new Defensive stance requires you to get hit before your pet goes in
See.. most of the time, my pet WILL go in when I attack, and before I get hit....

There's some serious bugs and behaviours that just seem purely random that really need to get fixed...

Tis the same for me. Defensive stance acts close to what the old way did. Pet will start the attack as soon as a shoot at something. If I'm shooting in a mob, he stays out there until I call him back, or the mob is gone.

I have used the assist some when in BG's as I like when he switches over to the one I'm shooting at. I will try to pay more attention though to see if he comes running back every time we finish. I haven't noticed that, but I'm shooting at targets as fast as possible that I might be keeping him out there. I haven't noticed the run back.

Unread post by **Boven** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:14 am

I rather dislike Assist, but its behavior seems to be the closest to the old Defensive stance. The delay before the pet goes in is annoying as heck. Granted, I generally send my pet in manually before I open fire, but if some mob patrols up and aggros or spawns right next to me, I often disengage and open fire first.

I'm a bit relieved that it's not just me seeing some odd pet behavior in the various stances. One odd thing I've encountered a good bit is my pet refusing to leave its current target and go to another while in Assist stance. This usually happens when I'm farming or doing dailies. I'll be taking down a spider, fiery invader, or whatever when another pops up nearby. Since the first is almost dead and the pet has aggro on it, I'll send the pet over to the new one to start chewing on it and tag it while I finish off the first one. Just as often as not, though, no matter how much I hit my Pet Attack key, the pet stays on the original mob. I end up having to hit Passive and then Pet Attack.

I've also hit Pet Attack and had a pet go after a different nearby mob. It only happens now and then. I originally thought it was just me being clumsy or something, but it really does seem to be an occasional pet bug. I'll target a mob. It's highlighted, it shows as my target. Heck, it'll even have a hunters mark on it. When I hit Pet Attack, the goes after some other nearby mob instead. I'd still say it was me screwing up, but when doing some dailies recently I ran across a guildie doing 'em and we grouped up to get through 'em faster. He was assisting off me. He'd get the right target, but a couple times, Grumpy ran off after some other mob.

I really would like to get the old stances back.

Unread post by **Gimlion** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:11 am

I, personally, don't even think we need the old stances back, I just want the stances to work RIGHT (or at least how I assume they're supposed to work.) Basically, what this change did was get rid of Aggressive Stance, and split Defensive stance into two half stances, which are both (and Passive too) borked.

I think they should just combine Defensive and Assist back into the Old Defensive, and then put our 'auto aim' back to the way it was pre-4.2 (maybe pre-4.1, as I was on a hiatus through that entire patch), where it would switch our target to an already engaged mob after our current target dies. If they did this, I think this whole deal would be a lot smoother.

But that brings us to a 2nd problem. There would be many, many, MANY Hunters 'QQing' that the Devs took away something (aggressive), without giving anything in return. I think that's what the Dev team foresaw with the Aggressive 'nerf', and thus implemented Assist stance. This quelled some players, as they got something in return for what was taken. However, many don't realize that Assist just works as half of the old Defensive, which, while seems like an addition for us, is actually just a nerf to the Old Defensive, as we now cannot have both functions of it working at once.

If they could somehow make Assist work JUST like the Old Defensive, and then find a way to make Defensive ONLY attack a mob that is attacking you or the pet, then I think this change would be much more appreciated.

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